jollyrogerf14 Posted November 30, 2009 Share Posted November 30, 2009 Hi guys! Me again! I'm looking to do an early Lo-Viz scheme of a VMFA-333 F-4S Phantom, and I was hoping not to have to buy another "Sierra" kit. I already have a "Juliet" kit in-hand. My question is: Does anyone know if this plane (please follow link at the bottom) was ever in this exact scheme without the slats installed? I know that some of VMFA-333's Sierras were delivered without the slats installed, and I was hoping I could use some Eagle Strike decals I have for Buno 153902, modex #106 in the overall Gull Gray scheme. I figured I could just use the slime lights on a "Juliet" phantom and get away with it being an early "Sierra" phantom. Does anyone know if this will be possible? http://vmfa-333.org/2002/VMFA-333/slides/F...10,%201982.html I know someone here can shed some light on my dilemma! Thanks! V.C. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
John B Posted November 30, 2009 Share Posted November 30, 2009 (edited) The F-4 in the image is in fact a "Super J". Meaning that it is a F-4S without the slats, but with the slime lights already installed. You'd be fine with using the Eagle Strike decal sheet on a F-4J along with applying the slime light decals and installing the short "intake shoulder" antennas for the ALQ-126 ECM system. Edited November 30, 2009 by John B Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jollyrogerf14 Posted November 30, 2009 Author Share Posted November 30, 2009 The F-4 in the image is in fact a "Super J". Meaning that it is a F-4S without the slats, but with the slime lights already installed. You'd be fine with using the Eagle Strike decal sheet on a F-4J along with applying the slime light decals and installing the short "intake shoulder" antennas for the ALQ-126 ECM system. Thanks John! You know... looking at it closer now, you're right! It does not have the slats! An oversight on my part. Thanks for pointing out the obvious to this dimly lit bulb :lol: ! V.C. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Darren Roberts Posted November 30, 2009 Share Posted November 30, 2009 I didn't know there was such a thing as a Super J. That's kind of cool. How many of them were actually in service? Did they still have the wingtip ECM antenna like the standard S? BTW, John B is a treasure trove of Marine info. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kenlilly106 Posted November 30, 2009 Share Posted November 30, 2009 IIRC there were only 20-30 Super J's in service until the slat production line caught up and they received slats. I think all of the S specific changes were present on the airframe except for the slats. Ken Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jollyrogerf14 Posted November 30, 2009 Author Share Posted November 30, 2009 IIRC there were only 20-30 Super J's in service until the slat production line caught up and they received slats.I think all of the S specific changes were present on the airframe except for the slats. Ken I don't know... the pic sure looks like a standard "J" wing. ???? V.C. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kenlilly106 Posted November 30, 2009 Share Posted November 30, 2009 It is a J wing in the picture, hard to tell if the wingtip ECM bulge is on it. My understanding was that for a Super J, everything was done to make it an S except for the slats. Ken Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jollyrogerf14 Posted November 30, 2009 Author Share Posted November 30, 2009 It is a J wing in the picture, hard to tell if the wingtip ECM bulge is on it.My understanding was that for a Super J, everything was done to make it an S except for the slats. Ken Indeed. V.C. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GreyGhost Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 I've known and seen pics of the F-4Js that had partial F-4S upgrades but I never knew they were referred to as 'Super Js' ... Interesting ... Gregg Quote Link to post Share on other sites
John B Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 (edited) ...BTW, John B is a treasure trove of Marine info. Don't forget - a man's treasure is a woman's garage sale fodder... Darren - You met the first person who I'd ever heard call it a "Super J" at Reno -> "Jake" a former-F-4 RIO, and former F-4 Society President. Edited December 1, 2009 by John B Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jollyrogerf14 Posted December 1, 2009 Author Share Posted December 1, 2009 (edited) The F-4 in the image is in fact a "Super J". Meaning that it is a F-4S without the slats, but with the slime lights already installed. You'd be fine with using the Eagle Strike decal sheet on a F-4J along with applying the slime light decals and installing the short "intake shoulder" antennas for the ALQ-126 ECM system. Is that where the S comes from in F-4S? "Super"-J V.C. Edited December 1, 2009 by jollyrogerf14 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GreyGhost Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 Is that where the S comes from in F-4S? "Super"-JV.C. So does that mean the "N" in F-4N means "Neato-B" ? Gregg Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Andre Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 So does that mean the "N" in F-4N means "Neato-B" ? Or "not a B"? :-) Cheers, Andre Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jollyrogerf14 Posted December 1, 2009 Author Share Posted December 1, 2009 Or "not a B"? :-)Cheers, Andre You guys... ya killin' me! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
John B Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 (edited) IIRC there were only 20-30 Super J's in service until the slat production line caught up and they received slats.Ken I can't find my ref that provided actual numbers of Super Js issued to the squadrons. I'm thinking the number of slatless "S" could be as high as 50. Here's how I came up with that number - I've seen pics/ have refs with pics/ or have slides of Super Js from the following squadrons - VMFA-212 VMFA-232 VMFA-235 (example seen in decal form on Eagle Strike 48-180) VMFA-312 VMFA-333 (example seen in decal form on Eagle Strike 48-181) I'm guessing that one or two of those squadrons swapped jets for deployment (I'm too lazy to do a comprehensive study of all the BuNos of the Super Js). It was common for VMFA-212, -232, and -235 to swap some jets when it was thier turn to forward-deploy to MCAS Iwakuni up until they relocated from MCAS Kaneohe Bay to MCAS Miramar. Assuming that each squadron had a complement of 12 jets and that 2 squadrons swapped jets for deployment to MCAS Iwakuni, that's at least 48 jets. What really throws off my math is that if any of the squadrons had a mix of Js and Super Js when NOT forward deployed. Here's what I DO know for certain, it's a "royal pain in the behind" for the maintenance folks to have a mix of equipment that is similar but unique (be it jets, radios, trucks, nav gear etc) on deployment. It adds to the number of different spare parts you need to have for each system, and it means that a lot of systems have components that are not interchangeable. A lot of units try to have as many of the same "model" to minimize these issues. Just a shot in the dark, but I'm guessing number of Super Js was up around 50. Edited December 3, 2009 by John B Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Andre Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 Just a shot in the dark, but I'm guessing number of Super Js was up around 50. According to Joe Baugher, the number was 43. I find his info usually pretty accurate. HTH, Andre Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cool Hand Posted December 5, 2009 Share Posted December 5, 2009 I work with a former plane captian of VMFA-333 from the mid 80's. He tells me that ALL aircraft were Super J's WITH slats. Hope that helps you guys. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gmat Posted December 5, 2009 Share Posted December 5, 2009 My scanner still doesn't work, so I can't post any photos, but I took some b/w walk around shots of F-4S 1555821, DN*111 when it stopped at Yokota in 1981 or 82. It says F-4S above the small serial number and it lacks the LES. It has the slime lights on the tail, fuselage and nose and has a small black RHAW t*t on the wing tip. No names on the canopy rails. All over gray with the white band and green shamrocks and trim. I suppose that you can use the decals and make your super J. If you are interested, I can loan you the prints. Best wishes, Grant Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tobiK Posted December 5, 2009 Share Posted December 5, 2009 well, your picture shows a F-4 J (hardwing). Very possible that it is upgraded to "S" standard. So far I remember the F-4J (UK), they were upgraded to "S" standard internally (more or less) in the States before delivering to UK 74sqn. How to realize building this modell? Perhaps take a J kit and add an S pit or eduard parts for a S. That s what I would do. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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