F-35 news roundup

[MarkW]

Correct - the thing puts out really hot exhaust. Originally the A model had it pointed down, but they moved it when they realized it might melt asphalt tarmacs (or even potentially start grass fires if it is at some really bare-bones location.) The fuel addition was lagniappe.

You clearly have no idea what you were talking about. The first a model, AA-1, was built with the exhaust facing up. It was only after the mid 2000's redesign that the exhaust was intentionally pointed down, specifically to gain more fuel.

The A model downward facing exhaust was extensively modeled and studied prior to and after the redesign, and poses no threat to asphalt or causing gas fires.

Zark: yes there is a screen over the C upward facing exhaust, just like on the A or B model. It's your standard zigzag stealth screen. To model it you will need first the circular exhaust hole, a diamond shaped wedge raised area around it, and then that other zigzag area you see in front of it talking all the way out onto the horizontal tailboom. That sort of comet shaped like gray area you see around the exhaust is exactly what you need to build. If I were to build this myself, I would recommend using a fine wiremesh like you find in some reusable coffee filters for the exhaust screen, and something very thin and easy to cut like wine foil for the "comet" around it.

Also, look on the bright side. Kitty Hawk at least was consistent. They completely left the detail off on the A and the B model as well. Scratch building the underside exhaust for the A and B is a little more tricky, as there is a raised hump in front of the exhaust that they totally missed as well.

[zark]

Thanks for the info Mark, I appreciate that !!!!

[82Whitey51]

Zark: yes there is a screen over the C upward facing exhaust, just like on the A or B model. It's your standard zigzag stealth screen. To model it you will need first the circular exhaust hole, a diamond shaped wedge raised area around it, and then that other zigzag area you see in front of it talking all the way out onto the horizontal tailboom. That sort of comet shaped like gray area you see around the exhaust is exactly what you need to build. If I were to build this myself, I would recommend using a fine wiremesh like you find in some reusable coffee filters for the exhaust screen, and something very thin and easy to cut like wine foil for the "comet" around it.

Other than the "comet shaped" structural layer, is the area raised up any? Like any sort of "fairing" on the forward facing area in front of the exhaust opening?

[MarkW]

I do not believe so. On the A and B, there is a pretty significant raised bump in front of the IPP exhaust, because those exhausts are coming out at a shallow angle. On the C model, the exhaust comes out pretty much straight up. I do not believe there's any sort of bump or faring in front of the exhaust from what I recall seeing. That's why I'm thinking you can get away with either PE or cutting wine foil or something thing like that to simulate the "comet" and the diamond shaped area directly around the exhaust hole.

[82Whitey51]

Cool. Thanks for the info.

Looks like it'll be a somewhat easy fix.

[Alan in Yorktown]

You clearly have no idea what you were talking about. The first a model, AA-1, was built with the exhaust facing up. It was only after the mid 2000's redesign that the exhaust was intentionally pointed down, specifically to gain more fuel.

Well, then I was fed some misinformation back when I was working on operational beddown of this aircraft. Wouldn't be the first time.

[TaiidanTomcat]

http://australianaviation.com.au/2014/05/raaf-plans-to-break-down-barriers-to-realising-f-35s-full-potential/

http://www.defensenews.com/story/defense/show-daily/avalon/2015/02/24/avalon-australia-f35-fms-bogdan-deeble-singapore/23927983/

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/f-35-procurement-troubles-may-hurt-military-s-relations-with-allies-1.2967731

Oh boy

Edited February 27, 2015 by TaiidanTomcat

[Trigger]

[TaiidanTomcat]

Nice^

Proof Committee Hansard SENATE FOREIGN AFFAIRS, DEFENCE AND TRADE LEGISLATION COMMITTEE Estimates

(Public) WEDNESDAY, 25 FEBRUARY 2015 CANBERRA

"...Senator LUDLAM: So the third and fourth quarters of 2020. I have a couple of issues to run through—as you probably anticipate—around issues which we only have access to from the Defence press and from articles that come across our desk. These are different performance issues. I have a couple of questions on notice, which have only just lapsed so they are not unreasonably late, but I will put a few issues to you. Firstly, reporting: I understand that the aircraft uses fuel as an element of its internal heat sink and they have noticed in the US that if they are refuelling from very warm tankers that have been sitting in the sun for a period of time it makes the aircraft unsafe to fly because the fuel is at a very high temperature. Has that issue come across your desk?

Air Vice Marshal Davies: That is not across my desk. I have been aware, though, of issues around fuel temperature, but at the moment I am not aware of any issue that would prevent us acquiring the aircraft in the time frame we plan. Yesterday, at the Avalon air show, I spoke with Lieutenant General Bogdan and that was certainly not an issue that was discussed or raised as being a problem.

Air Vice Marshal Deeble: I am the program manager for JSF. There are no issues associated with the fuel that would not otherwise be inherent in any aircraft. So JSF does not suffer from a fuel problem.

Senator LUDLAM: A fuel temperature problem relating—

Air Vice Marshal Deeble: A fuel temperature problem.

Senator LUDLAM: The issue in the article that I came across was actually that the colour of the fuel trucks made a difference. If they were dark green, you would get a different fuel temperature than if they were white.

Air Vice Marshal Deeble: We are agnostic to the colour of the fuel tank that refuels the JSF...."

&

...Senator LUDLAM: One issue that I came across—maybe this is not something that you or your pilots would worry about—is that the ammunition that the aircraft would carry would allow it to fire for about four seconds before it was out of ammunition.

Air Chief Marshal Binskin: That is not unusual. The Hornet is six seconds.

Senator LUDLAM: Six seconds.

Air Chief Marshal Binskin: Yes, depending on the rate of fire that you choose. So that is not unusual. That is a lot of lead that goes down range in four seconds, though.

Senator LUDLAM: But it is gone very quickly, and would the JSF be anticipated to fly in the same kind of role as a Hornet—for close escort?

Air Chief Marshal Binskin: The gun is not a close escort weapon. A gun is a weapon that keeps people honest when you get close. To be honest with you, if the JSF ends up in a gun fight, you have got a lot more issues that you need to have addressed.

Senator LUDLAM: You would have if you were out of ammunition, I guess.

Air Chief Marshal Binskin: In fact, you may as well pull out the knife and the pistol that the pilot is carrying and go to that because it is not designed to get into that sort of fight.

[sweier]

"...Senator LUDLAM:

Senator Scott Ludlum, Greens, Western Australia

If it isn't a tree that can be hugged to the lilting refrain of Kumbaya, it must be bad, so any negative report is clearly worth pursuit, and any positive report is all Military-Industrial-Complex propaganda.

To be fair, to his party, the same applies to any Defence purchase.

Shane

Edited March 3, 2015 by sweier

[TaiidanTomcat]

Senator Scott Ludlum, Greens, Western Australia

If it isn't a tree that can be hugged to the lilting refrain of Kumbaya, it must be bad, so any negative report is clearly worth pursuit, and any positive report is all Military-Industrial-Complex propaganda.

To be fair, to his party, the same applies to any Defence purchase.

Shane

Thank you for the insight

STATEMENT OF GENERAL JOSEPH DUNFORD COMMANDANT UNITED STATES MARINE CORPS

BEFORE THE HOUSE APPROPRIATIONS COMMITTEE SUBCOMMITTEE ON DEFENSE ON

26 FEBRUARY 2015

"...Joint Strike Fighter (JSF) pp14-16

Our tried and true F/A-18s, AV-8Bs and EA-6B Prowlers have performed magnificently in combat in Iraq and Afghanistan, providing our Marine riflemen the fires they needed, in every clime and place from sea bases large and small, and expeditionary bases ashore. With the help of Congress, we have kept these aircraft as modern as possible and extracted every ounce of readiness we can from them; however, the high operational tempo has pushed these aircraft to more rapidly approach the end of their service lives. Due to the uncertainty prevalent in today’s global security environment, the Nation requires we maintain a capability to respond quickly in contested regions regardless of weather conditions. The F-35 Joint Strike Fighter, as part of the MAGTF, meets the Nation’s needs.

The Marine Corps remains committed to the recapitalization of our aging TACAIR fleet through the procurement of the F-35. The JSF brings a new capability to the battalion sized forces that sail with our Marine Expeditionary Units. Today, there are a multitude of high risk regions where a crisis response operation would require large Joint strike packages to soften or blind the threat. These packages would have to include cruise missiles, fighter aircraft, electronic warfare platforms, aircraft which specialize in suppression and destruction of enemy air defenses, and strike aircraft - just for U.S. forces to gain access. Such strike packages require coordination across services and combatant commands and take weeks and months to assemble. This same kind of access can be attained with a single detachment of 4 to 8 F-35s - the same sized detachment which will reside with a Marine Expeditionary Unit. [Good news for F-35Bs on Oz LHDs] For major contingencies, a surge of F-35Bs to our amphibious carrier decks and forward austere bases enables even greater options and striking power. The F-35 provides a transformational capability to the Marine Corps and the Joint Force. It gives our Nation a day one, full spectrum capability against the most critical and prohibitive threats.

The Marine Corps prioritizes putting our TACAIR as close to our infantry as we can by basing them from Amphibious Carriers or austere Forward Operating Bases (FOBs) and Forward Arming and Refueling Points (FARPs) ashore. This places the F-35’s transformational capabilities in the hands of the infantry Marine. The Marine rifleman is now supported immediately with close air support, electronic warfare capabilities, and intelligence, surveillance, and reconnaissance support in threat and weather conditions which previously would have denied aviation support. The F-35's ability to develop, process, and display information to the pilot and disseminate it at tactical, operational, and strategic levels is what makes the platform truly unique, "a server in the sky" for the MAGTF. The sensors and communications equipment of our F-35s allow pilots and forward air controllers to see through the clouds to exchange high fidelity pictures in environments we would consider a no go today. Enhancing the C2, strike and intel capabilities of the MAGTF commander, the F-35 transforms the MAGTF into an element capable of penetrating any AOR in the world to set the conditions necessary to enable follow-on forces.

The Marine Corps has maintained the lead in this transformational platform. The F-35B and C models will replace the over 23 year old F/A-18 Hornet, 18 year old AV-8B Harrier and the 27 year old EA-6B Prowler; the same aircraft that have been passed from fathers to sons and daughters now serving. We have stood up our first two squadrons of F-35Bs and will stand up a third in 2016. PB16 supports the Marine Corps’ timeline to achieve IOC of its first F-35B squadron later this year and complete full transition by 2031. With the optempo expected to remain high, we will transition to F-35s as rapidly as possible. Continued Congressional support for this transition is key to increasing our degraded aviation readiness and minimizing our exposure to ever increasing operations and support costs for aged aircraft."

Edited March 3, 2015 by TaiidanTomcat

[Trigger]

STATEMENT OF GENERAL JOSEPH DUNFORD COMMANDANT UNITED STATES MARINE CORPS

BEFORE THE HOUSE APPROPRIATIONS COMMITTEE SUBCOMMITTEE ON DEFENSE ON

26 FEBRUARY 2015

"...Joint Strike Fighter (JSF) pp14-16

Our tried and true F/A-18s, AV-8Bs and EA-6B Prowlers have performed magnificently in combat in Iraq and Afghanistan, providing our Marine riflemen the fires they needed, in every clime and place from sea bases large and small, and expeditionary bases ashore. With the help of Congress, we have kept these aircraft as modern as possible and extracted every ounce of readiness we can from them; however, the high operational tempo has pushed these aircraft to more rapidly approach the end of their service lives. Due to the uncertainty prevalent in today’s global security environment, the Nation requires we maintain a capability to respond quickly in contested regions regardless of weather conditions. The F-35 Joint Strike Fighter, as part of the MAGTF, meets the Nation’s needs.

The Marine Corps remains committed to the recapitalization of our aging TACAIR fleet through the procurement of the F-35. The JSF brings a new capability to the battalion sized forces that sail with our Marine Expeditionary Units. Today, there are a multitude of high risk regions where a crisis response operation would require large Joint strike packages to soften or blind the threat. These packages would have to include cruise missiles, fighter aircraft, electronic warfare platforms, aircraft which specialize in suppression and destruction of enemy air defenses, and strike aircraft - just for U.S. forces to gain access. Such strike packages require coordination across services and combatant commands and take weeks and months to assemble. This same kind of access can be attained with a single detachment of 4 to 8 F-35s - the same sized detachment which will reside with a Marine Expeditionary Unit. [Good news for F-35Bs on Oz LHDs] For major contingencies, a surge of F-35Bs to our amphibious carrier decks and forward austere bases enables even greater options and striking power. The F-35 provides a transformational capability to the Marine Corps and the Joint Force. It gives our Nation a day one, full spectrum capability against the most critical and prohibitive threats.

The Marine Corps prioritizes putting our TACAIR as close to our infantry as we can by basing them from Amphibious Carriers or austere Forward Operating Bases (FOBs) and Forward Arming and Refueling Points (FARPs) ashore. This places the F-35’s transformational capabilities in the hands of the infantry Marine. The Marine rifleman is now supported immediately with close air support, electronic warfare capabilities, and intelligence, surveillance, and reconnaissance support in threat and weather conditions which previously would have denied aviation support. The F-35's ability to develop, process, and display information to the pilot and disseminate it at tactical, operational, and strategic levels is what makes the platform truly unique, "a server in the sky" for the MAGTF. The sensors and communications equipment of our F-35s allow pilots and forward air controllers to see through the clouds to exchange high fidelity pictures in environments we would consider a no go today. Enhancing the C2, strike and intel capabilities of the MAGTF commander, the F-35 transforms the MAGTF into an element capable of penetrating any AOR in the world to set the conditions necessary to enable follow-on forces.

The Marine Corps has maintained the lead in this transformational platform. The F-35B and C models will replace the over 23 year old F/A-18 Hornet, 18 year old AV-8B Harrier and the 27 year old EA-6B Prowler; the same aircraft that have been passed from fathers to sons and daughters now serving. We have stood up our first two squadrons of F-35Bs and will stand up a third in 2016. PB16 supports the Marine Corps’ timeline to achieve IOC of its first F-35B squadron later this year and complete full transition by 2031. With the optempo expected to remain high, we will transition to F-35s as rapidly as possible. Continued Congressional support for this transition is key to increasing our degraded aviation readiness and minimizing our exposure to ever increasing operations and support costs for aged aircraft."

Is the Commandant of the USMC not aware that the F-35 cannot perform CAS? First he bans the Ooh-rah, now this? What's next, is he going to

Obviously he hates the infantry.

[TaiidanTomcat]

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/dutch-parliament-approves-first-f-35-production-order-409673/

There is going to be other big news announced at the end of the year as well.

"If we hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominoes should fall like a house of cards. Checkmate."

Oh the frozen thing LOL

[MarkW]

LRIP 10 would be the earliest opportunity. This will definitely help reduce costs. Wonder how stupid the Canadians feel now.

Edited March 4, 2015 by MarkW

[spejic]

Britain is now testing the F-35B on a ski jump.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/02/24/lockheed-fighter-testing-idUSL1N0VX2AK20150224

Australia and Norway are working on a stealth anti-shipping missile that fits in the F-35A weapon bay.

http://australianaviation.com.au/2015/02/australia-to-cooperate-with-norway-on-f-35-maritime-strike-weapon/

[Trigger]

[Fellow Hobbyist]

The Lightning's roundel decal appears to have failed to bond to the surface....maybe it needed more gloss coat before application.

[Aigore]

Hornet is really really small compared to the F-35

[4scourge7]

Hornet is really really small compared to the F-35 :banana:/>

Now I understand why the UK needs a gigantic carrier to deploy twelve F-35.

Cheers, Ian

[MarkW]

The Lightning's roundel decal appears to have failed to bond to the surface....maybe it needed more gloss coat before application.

Probably went through a light rain shower, washing off the "stealth" stuff.

[Trigger]

Now I understand why the UK needs a gigantic carrier to deploy twelve F-35.

Cheers, Ian

"You're gonna need a bigger boat."

[Trigger]

Oops. Double post.

Edited March 6, 2015 by Trigger

[TaiidanTomcat]

Probably went through a light rain shower, washing off the "stealth" stuff.

Which is just perfect because now the pilot identifying it with his naked eye can't tell who's it is and its a friendly fire incident waiting to happen.

[11bee]

Interesting article about some of the ongoing problems with the Ford class CVN's. Most points are pretty well know but the article also mentions some compatibility issues with the F-35.

Apparently the F-35 is so noisy that hearing protection is required below the flight deck when the jet is powered up. Some of the areas effected include mission planning facilities.

Projected noise levels one level below the flight deck (03 level), which includes mission planning spaces, will require at least single hearing protection that will make mission planning difficult. The Navy is working to mitigate the effects of the increased noise levels adjacent to the flight deck.

http://nextbigfuture.com/2015/03/first-new-super-aircraft-carrier-will.html

[Spongebob]

Projected noise levels one level below the flight deck (03 level), which includes mission planning spaces, will require at least single hearing protection that will make mission planning difficult. The Navy is working to mitigate the effects of the increased noise levels adjacent to the flight deck.

Eh, half of the ready rooms require that anyway from the noise the AC makes and certain other rooms (and staterooms) required that because of where they were in relation to the cats/JBDs (the worst)/arresting gear.

In other words, that gets a solid "whatever".

HTH

Sponge