Converting a B-25J into some RCAF Trainer

[Kostucha]

Hello all!

This one is going to be fun. Really fun!

Outside of the 1 CFFTS Building (Canadian Forces Flight Training School) at 17 Wing Winnipeg, there are two great looking gals that smiled at me everyday I walked to classes for my AES Op courses the first half of this year. One was a Canadian Dakota (DC-3/C-47), and the other was a Mitchell. Though this bird was not used for AES Op training, rather Navigators (now known as ACSO's), she still looked great being an old WWII bird once flying the skies for the RCAF.

After the war, this bird was used for training as well as a number of other things. Interestingly enough, the frame that is on display came close to a bitter end. She was slated to be - like many other vintage airframes - a target for ground troop training after her many years of service, in of all places, Shilo, my old posting. Thankfully though, a great group of people saved her, got the engines donated from another organization, and they restored the bird to original condition as what she would have been while she was training Navs.

Enough was enough one slightly rainy day, and I walked outside and with a camera, shot about 120 pictures of all angles and details of this bird. Finding the kit I would use was easy... the Revell B-25J. Sure, there are better B-25 kit's out there with recessed panel lines, and rivets all over, but common, it's a 1/48 kit, that's going to go through a lot of little details to make her Canadian. Along with the traditional white/red over aluminium colours, I figured this would be a good way to practice some metal foiling.

Amongst some of the things that make this one unique are the lack of a turret up top, a smooth cover over the tail guns and interesting paint work on the tail gunners windows, a modified solid nose with a bit of a different shape, the engines are all black too (sure, not normal, but that's how she looks), about 6 vents over the bottom and nose, a unique exhaust port coming out the LH side of the engines through the cowel flaps, no leading edge landing lights (but rather under the wings), a few other smaller things throughout as well. So, it's going to be fun, for sure!

The goal of this project is to present it back to the school. They've done so much for me in a short period of time, that they really didn't have to, and so this one seems only natural to do.

Looking through the kit, it's a wonderful bit of work, typical of Revell/Monogram. All the finer details that seperate it from the kits costing another 10-15 bucks are evident, so work will go into things like the landing gear, seat belts, and thinning out other parts that are moulded far too thick (cowel flaps for example). The nose is going to present a challenge, as there is no solid nose provided, so what I'm likely going to do is glue the nose together with the kit parts, throw in a whole lot of lead up in the nose with filler to plug the gun holes and then shave down to match the shape. Once it's on, and looking right, I'll use metal foil to give the panel lines in as needed.

Otherwise guys and gals, it's a fairly straight forward build.

Pictures to come soon.

Cheers!

Mark.

Edited November 8, 2010 by Kostucha

[Obant]

That's it !

If it's one of Kostucha's builds, it's bookmarked !!!!!

[Kostucha]

Hahaha, thanks Obant! I'll have pictures of the actual bird posted up soon, to give a good idea of some of the mods that need to be done to convert a B-25J to this Mitchell trainer.

[dylan]

thats really cool. i was on the restoration crew for thay mitchell back in 94. it was a hard nosed B25 and still has the .50 mounts in the nose. the armour plating mounted on the sides of the cockpit was removed in the 1950's ,you could see where it used to be by the fact that the aluminum was a little but brighter where it was covered. it also has the mounst for the .50's on the side of the fuselage.

prior to it's new paint job it was sand blasted ( i was a private in the A.F. and not in a position to argue) and then covered in a really thick automotive primer to fill in the divots made by sandblasting. I would love to see a few pictures of how she looks today. do you know if it has had any work since 94? and where is the expiditor that used to sit next to her?

[Kostucha]

thats really cool. i was on the restoration crew for thay mitchell back in 94. it was a hard nosed B25 and still has the .50 mounts in the nose. the armour plating mounted on the sides of the cockpit was removed in the 1950's ,you could see where it used to be by the fact that the aluminum was a little but brighter where it was covered. it also has the mounst for the .50's on the side of the fuselage.

prior to it's new paint job it was sand blasted ( i was a private in the A.F. and not in a position to argue) and then covered in a really thick automotive primer to fill in the divots made by sandblasting. I would love to see a few pictures of how she looks today. do you know if it has had any work since 94? and where is the expiditor that used to sit next to her?

Dylan,

Nope! No work has been done to her, the black colours on the props is faded in most places and heavily weathered. She's no longer the nice polished bird she was a decade ago (in a picture of a Nav grad class infront of her, she is as polished as any good pair of parade boots). Dull, weathered, and showing signs of many Winnipeg winters. On a good side note though, no rust, no graffiti, no vandalism at all.

As for the Expiditor, she's on the other side of the runway at the museum waiting to be restored even further. I only know this as I almost tripped over her in some of our... how to put this... well fueled late night AirForce exploits!

Dylan, if interested, fire me a pm with your e-mail addy, and I'll e-mail you all the pictures I've taken of her.

Amazing, eh folks, how small this world is, and how many members from all over the place are in some way, shape, or form connected to one another.

Cheers!

Mark.

[Eastern]

Hi Mark! I think it's really generous and commendable to donate this build to the school.

I've followed your "I'm back thread" and it was fascinating reading that. It was really great experience for you being at the school.

Good luck with your new build!

Alexander.

p.s. Eagerly waiting for the pics.

Edited July 15, 2010 by Eastern

[Kostucha]

Alexander,

So good to hear from you. You are amongst those whose opinions and insights, whether good to bad, I always look forward to. I hope that you are finding yourself doing well in Vladivostok, where I just recently learned was... interestingly enough, an unofficial birth place of the Tu-4. A very interesting story and a real insight into the ingenuity of Soviet/Russian reverse engineering. All politics aside, it is still an amazing feat.

Well, as promised folks, here she is! And Dylan, I'm sorry to show the condition that this beautiful bird is in. I almost feel ashamed of putting her up. However, this is her!

Sitting in front of the school, being one of the crowning features of the parade square before her, this lovely old bomber turned navigator trainer sits.

*I just want to say here that by all means folks, these images are posted on here so that if anyone would like to make the same aircraft, or gain insight into the difference between the old B-25J and the RCAF Nav trainer, that these images are here to use. Further more, I'll e-mail these in for a walk around. I found it very frustrating trying to find these images and information in other areas. Looking into it, they are good to go even further, in that even though this bomber is on a military base, she's good to be shown. There will be no flak from myself, but more importantly the CF or other sources for them being posted.

The differences of '203' starts here, the very blunt and obvious thing of her radials. During operation, sure, they were painted as any other 14 cylinder would be, but up on display, the entire engine, inner nacelle (complete), and even the spark plug wires are painted flat black:

Starting from the nose though, here are some of the differences:

The nose, even though she's solid, and as Dylan told, is the hard nose variant with the mounts still inside, she's got some unique panel lines, including a vent, as well as a gray disc. You can also see how the flat black anti-glare panel it pointed, and the relative size of '203' on the nose:

Further, the scoop you see on the pilots side (LH side) is only on that one side. Up on the nose is the "boomerange" antenna as well, and you can see the placement of it, as well as the angle and size/shape of the pylon it sits upon. Here's another view from the other side:

These first few shots will show the exact panel lines (other than the vent and gray disc) that are mirrored on both sides of this nose.

Edited July 3, 2010 by Kostucha

[Kostucha]

Moving along to the fuselage, there are numerous other small vents, as well as other fine details located throughout:

Here you see what's on the fuselage side along the LH side along the prop ARC just infront of the bomb bay doors:

Past the wing on the LH side you can see other details, but as well as how the LH side waist gunners blister is also an emergency cut-away:

Up by the old roundel is a double-feature. I have NO CLUE what these are for, but there is a better picture of it later on (it is also a good reference for paint lines on the model/aircraft):

Moving onto the horizontal and vertical stabs, there is a couple pictures here showing paint/colour lines, but what's MORE interesting, is the lack of deicer boots, rather, the placement of these boots has only been painted gloss black:

And here we see the tail gun cover. It's smooth, with two small holes for pressure venting. What's more, is the unique way in which the gunners "greenhouse" has been painted, in that the upper panels have been sprayed silver:

[Kostucha]

Moving in the same direction back to the front, here is the look on the RH side of the fuselage along where the RH side waist gunners position is located. This side is slightly boring, but the ever present round circular emergency escape is still present, and this side also has the emergency cut away:

There is a small antenna located on the lower side of the fuselage as well:

Note the location in reference to the rear crew access hatch:

There are four vents, 2 pairs of 2 on the RH bombay door ONLY:

And moving past the wing, you see how the canopy has been overpainted in certain areas (similar to the tail gunner section). Further, there are two circular windows added. You may have noticed it earlier, but the shot here gives good reference to it's size and location:

[Kostucha]

As for other antennas throughout, here are some detail shots showing them and their locations:

The engines and wings are simple. For the most part they are as would be found on the B-25J, with these differences. On the LH Side of both engines, there is this exhaust stack coming through the roughly cut cowl flaps to accommodate them:

The clear leading edge landing lights are covered, and these have been added underneath the wing:

[Kostucha]

Lastly, the landing gear, a few quick shots starting with the nose gear, and then the MLG:

And last but not least, the air intakes on top of the engines. They are slightly longer, and far from the oval shape, they are very square:

Well all! Hope this helps all! Next up, pictures of the model!

Cheers,

Mark!

[Kostucha]

As a quick side note, the way she sits there on the "posts" - the wheels aren't touching the ground but rather supported up in the wheel shafts - there is NO hydrolic pressure, or hydrolic fluids at all, the shocks are completely compressed.

[dylan]

those two items are the intake and exhaust for the janitrol heater. i cant imagine how insanely cold it would have been in the back of the mitchell on a january morning in winnipeg.

as for the de ice boots. i tried to remove the strips of metal that hold the boots on to the wings. after stripping about 30 of the screws on the first one it was decided that we probably didn't need "real" boots on a monument. so i ran a carpet knife along the edge of the rubber bits and off they came. the original boots were in awful shape anyway, most were split open and hanging off the wings. the cost of replacing them with new rubber would not have been worth it.

the engines were painted black mostly to hide the horrible condition that they were in. once again it is a pedestal airplane and completely restoring an engine only to have it sit outside is a waste of money. one of my seargents Bill Ewing worked on her the first time it was put up. he told us that the engines were pieced together from u/s parts and the crank was pinned in the position it is in now. believe me those props arent moving.

the interior is painted in bronze green. a dark forest green colour. the fuselage was originally left in bare aluminum, but the wings and other flying surfaces were all painted. when the aircraft was originally put on display, the oleos were simply deflated and left to leak hydraulic fluid for 20 years. most of the brick work underneath was stained from the leaking fluid so when we got it we drained all (most) of what was left.

I had a hand in most of the pedestal birds in and around cfb winnipeg. and i believe a few of the other guys who worked on these projects are still around 402 sqn.

D

Edited July 3, 2010 by dylan

[Kostucha]

That is a great bit of information Dylan. Thank you very much for that. Its nice to hear from someone who was involved with the Mitchell, and the other pedestal aircraft. The 1CAD side has some nice a/c on display there too.

You know, looking at her, I would have never guessed she was in as bad of condition to begin with as the Mitchell was. You guys did a great job with her (The Sabre on the other side though is in desperate need of repainting).

[Eastern]

Alexander,

So good to hear from you. You are amongst those whose opinions and insights, whether good to bad, I always look forward to. I hope that you are finding yourself doing well in Vladivostok, where I just recently learned was... interestingly enough, an unofficial birth place of the Tu-4. A very interesting story and a real insight into the ingenuity of Soviet/Russian reverse engineering. All politics aside, it is still an amazing feat.

...........................

Oh, Mark, I'm really astounded and pleased with the reply like that! Firstly, I can never post something bad concerning your builds. And thanks, sure I'm do well here in Vladivostok especially today is its 150 years Anniversary. There are a lot of guests came and even Mr. Medvedev, our President, came to greeting Vladivostokvites.

Yes, Tu-4 was an exact copy of B-29, her real clone, down to least screw.

Well, since you have learnt much of Vladivostok, how about visiting the city? If you do I would show you much worth seeing. ;)

Cheers and happy modeling!

Alexander.

[phantom]

Very nice, I built this one a few years back with Canmilair decals. I don't think I have any photos except whats on the Canmilair site.

[Kostucha]

Thank you guys very much.

Now, before I go any further, these pictures weren't taken with my usual camera, but I'm making due with what I have.

First two shots are of the main landing gear and some of the additions made:

Next up is the heater added to the fuselage side and some of the smaller added panels:

A quick shot of the tail:

And a shot of the vents added to the one bombay door:

[Kostucha]

Some of the work thinning out the cowl flaps, and other smaller details around the engine, and the new air intake:

And finally the deleted turret and the new 'panels' above the canopy, and the nose. The top portion aside from the canopy will be painted white as well:

Hope you like what you see. I'm off for a survival course for a couple weeks, so I'll talk to you all again soon!

Cheers!

Mark.

[Kostucha]

I keep looking at these pictures and I'm not happy with them at all, the camera is great at long distances, but I prefer my own for close up shots. I'll be back, as mentioned, in a couple weeks, at which point I'll be taking a few better shots and going into greater detail as to what's being done. By that point as well all the work around the nose should be complete.

Thanks again for looking everyone.

Cheers!

Mark.

[Obant]

Great start, and so much done already ... looking forward to the next instalment but meanwhile, have a great couple of weeks.

[Blackcollar]

Looking good! Where are you getting your decals from?

-Al

[Kostucha]

Great start, and so much done already ... looking forward to the next instalment but meanwhile, have a great couple of weeks.

Thank you very much!! The BSERE course, aside from all the mosquitoes and other flying blood-suckers was great! (Came back with over 300 bites of various kinds). It was a very enjoyable course indeed, learned a lot. Now I find myself at home, and will be fully moved into Winnipeg on the 22nd. SO, building will continue then.

Looking good! Where are you getting your decals from?

-Al

Al, thank you very much. As for the decals, the roundels are going to be used from the leftovers box I've got, aside from everything else, it's a wild gambit. I want to see if the decal identification numbers on any of the sheets I have (you know, decal number 02, 22, 82, etc., etc., ) will work well for the nose numbers. The rest of them, like the stencils and what not will be done on my ink jet printer.

There is still much work left to be done around the nose and getting all those nose panels and other areas done right, but none of it is going to be impossible. I'm hoping to have this one wrapped up soon, then tackle my arch nemesis... that 1/24 Hurricane. This will be my third attempt at that kit. One thing at a time though, right!

Thanks everyone for looking,

Mark.

[Prop Duster]

Mark

Just found your build Very Nice! and welcome back to the world from your "summer camp".

This subject is a worthy variation from the usual battle weary or hanger queens we all seem too usually do.

but if I may, would you kindly take pity on a struggling muddlerer modeler, and explain how you created the bomb bay door vents and the engine air intake? ?did ya use PE, spare parts, scratch building with lots of talent? :unsure:

Regardless I will be watching and learning as you continue

Thanks

[Kostucha]

Thank you Steve!

Absolutely, no problems at all sharing how I did that. It was simply taking a brass pipe, file, and X-acto blade.

First step was to get the right diameter pipe, and they're available at my LHS and a few other places too. I tried aluminium, but it turned to crap, was far too soft. So brass it was.

Once I got the right pipe diameter, I simply filed at about a 10-15 degree angle, so that I ended up making a very sharp point.

After that's done, I just measured out the length, and slowly cut the piece off using a "rocking" motion back and forth across the width of the pipe with the X-acto blade. Once done, it was just superglued on using medium super glue.

Hope this helps! I've got a couple more I need to do so I'll snap a few quick pictures when I'm doing them and post them along. As for the engine intakes, I'll take a few shots and explain it as I do up the second one.

Cheers!

Mark.

Edited July 18, 2010 by Kostucha

[Prop Duster]

Thank you Steve!

Absolutely, no problems at all sharing how I did that. It was simply taking a brass pipe, file, and X-acto blade. ...

...Hope this helps! I've got a couple more I need to do so I'll snap a few quick pictures when I'm doing them and post them along. As for the engine intakes, I'll take a few shots and explain it as I do up the second one.

Cheers!

Mark.

Many thanks Mark !

your technique is exactly what I'm looking for, as I need to create some similar vents on my current effort, [a 1/72 Avia B-35 from an old KP -Czech kit]

Thought I was finally on the home stretch to paint, when my brilliant solution was----not so much --in creating the vents. Yours will give me the structure I need and the look I wanted.

Models are fun, Models are fun, Models are fun, -- Ok I'm ready to go back to work