RF-4B VMFP-3 engines/paint matching

[BMH]

Have the CAM sheet for #33 in 1/32, and the diagram shows overall Gull Gray and the long exhausts of the J/E/G, along with the cool McDD Spook Phantom guy cartoon on the tail.

I've found video footage of this jet with the long exhausts, but in Gull Gray over white and with the black lightning bolt on the tail--no Spook.

Anybody know if it's legit to do overall Gull Gray with the long exhausts? Spook looks cooler than the lightning bolt to me.

I assume the jet originally had the short exhausts of the B/C/D, etc.

No arrowhead stiffener on the stabs in any photo, but some show the slotted stabs of the J variety.

Thanks for any inpho.

[Andre]

On the RF-4B, the J79-GE-8 engines with their short F-4B style burner cans were replaced by J79-GE-10 engines with the longer F-4E style burner cans under Project SURE, for "Sensor Update and Refurbishment Effort", which started in 1975. So the combination of long tail feathers plus allover Light Gull Gray seems entirely plausible considering the timeframe.

What's the specific BuNo?

HTH,

Andre

Edited July 31, 2010 by Andre

[Skyraider Maniac]

Sounds correct - here's a pic i found from googling.

VMFP-3 RF-4B with Spook

Looks to be an overall flat gull gray scheme - as I'm not seeing any noticeable white as in VMCJ-2's scheme for the same aircraft.

HTH,

Justin

[Skyraider Maniac]

and another pic from wiki commons - close up view, so this should help you out a lot.

Edited July 31, 2010 by Skyraider Maniac

[Skyraider Maniac]

And another close up of the tail:

that help? it's certainly big enough, lol.....

Edited July 31, 2010 by Skyraider Maniac

[JEN722]

These pictures show the -8 engine, i.e. the ones with the shorter exhaust petals.

FYI both aircraft shown here have the thin wings and skinny main wheels (like the F-4B/N). You only have the bulged wings and wide wheels in 1/32nd scale if that's what you're building.

HTH,

Jens

[Skyraider Maniac]

On the RF-4B, the J79-GE-8 engines with their short F-4B style burner cans were replaced by J79-GE-10 engines with the longer F-4E style burner cans under Project SURE, for "Sensor Update and Refurbishment Effort", which started in 1975. So the combination of long tail feathers plus allover Light Gull Gray seems entirely plausible considering the timeframe.

What's the specific BuNo?

HTH,

Andre

Forgot to mention - those pics, according to wiki, are dated 1982, so were only a portion upgraded?

These pictures show the -8 engine, i.e. the ones with the shorter exhaust petals.

HTH,

Jens

I figured they were the short ones, which leads to the question posed to Andre above, as well as the following question.....

So, given the pics and BMH's CAM decal sheet - is the decal sheet depicting the incorrect a/c with the correct scheme?

Getting rather curious about this myself

Justin ;)

[GreyGhost]

Spook was on the VMFP-3 tails from 1981 till sometime in 84 ...

This >>> Page <<< might help too ...

Gregg

[BMH]

I'll try to combine replies to all in this post. First, thanks to all.

The Bu # is 157348, which means it's one of the final airframes that had the thicker wings & gear, and that also had the flat chisel nose--the final 3 (349, 350 & 351) had the later rounded shaped nose.

So the Revell kit is correct so far and the CAM sheet is right on the money.

I think the overall gull gray and spook guy scheme came before the gray over white/lightning bolt scheme, which I gather was the final scheme before they were retired and which was the scheme on the jets with the long exhausts and slotted stabs. I found some footage on YouTube that showed #33 and the rest of the squadron during flight ops--everything from the FOD police line to preflight, taxi, take off and even some air to air.

One of the Wiki shots shows 157349 (#34) and 157346 (#31) with the long exhausts, gray over white and lightning bolt, and 34 has the rounded nose like it should. Both would have the thicker wing, and both look to have the slotted stabs as on the E/G/J. The YouTube footage could have been taken on this sortie.

Since the kit gives you both exhausts, I'd like to use the right one for the CAM scheme. I'm hesitant to use the decal placement illustration as the guide for the pipes though.

The paint site doesn't cover the period of the sheet--still a good surf though!

Might try to get in touch with the Marine who posted some walk around footage of the #6 jet that was on display at El Toro for a while--in his YouTube narration, he says it used to be "his" Phantom.

If that works and I get any more definitive inpho, I'll post it here.

Thanks again.

[JEN722]

Well, CAM has been wrong before so I understand why you don't trust their instructions.

I have only been able to positively identify 157348 as serving with the NATC (this info is from my F-4 photo database). Entries are here:

Type Serial Block A/C code Unit Notes Colour scheme Source ID

RF/B 157348 43 348 NATC Sq nose. GG/W Smoke Trails vol 5-4. 530

RF/B 157348 43 348 NATC Sq nose. GG/W Aerofax Minigraph 13: McDonnell RF-4 Variants (Jay Miller) (Aerofax). 1002

RF/B 157348 43 348 NATC Sq nose. GG/W Smoke Trails vol 8-3. 648

On my computer I have pictures of 151980, 151981, 153093, 153102, 153107, 15734* (RF 117), 157347 (RF 120) and 157351. All are in the overall gull grey scheme. The overall gull grey scheme replaced with gull grey/white scheme btw. They also have the short burner cans.

HTH,

Jens

[LoganTLR]

HI

This thread is excellent as I am in the same conundrum at the moment.

Tom

[otis252]

Hey Guys,

Very interesting thread. Simple question, can a USMC RF-4B be built from the Revell 32nd RF-4C? It would have to be built as one of the BUNO's that have the thick wings, big tires and square nose. Some have slatted stabs and long or short burner cans? Also the rear cockpit would need some mods, especially on the right side. What do you think?

Chuck

[Andre]

Simple question, can a USMC RF-4B be built from the Revell 32nd RF-4C? It would have to be built as one of the BUNO's that have the thick wings, big tires and square nose. Some have slatted stabs and long or short burner cans? Also the rear cockpit would need some mods, especially on the right side. What do you think?

Sounds like you have the basics covered.

Cheers,

Andre

[JEN722]

Hey Guys,

Very interesting thread. Simple question, can a USMC RF-4B be built from the Revell 32nd RF-4C? It would have to be built as one of the BUNO's that have the thick wings, big tires and square nose. Some have slatted stabs and long or short burner cans? Also the rear cockpit would need some mods, especially on the right side. What do you think?

Chuck

IIRC the main wheels are different too. You'll need the F-4J/S type mains for the thick wing RF-4Bs.

The exhausts and stabs were changed during the RF-4B's service life. I don't remember when the stabs were changed on the F-4B but my guess is that the RF-4Bs had theirs changed around the same time. I doubt you'll find an overall gull grey or low vis RF-4B with unslotted stabs though.

HTH,

Jens

[Wild Weasel V]

Hey Guys,

Very interesting thread. Simple question, can a USMC RF-4B be built from the Revell 32nd RF-4C? It would have to be built as one of the BUNO's that have the thick wings, big tires and square nose. Some have slatted stabs and long or short burner cans? Also the rear cockpit would need some mods, especially on the right side. What do you think?

Chuck

In addition you need to fill the refuel receptacle on the spine, scribe a door on the right fuselage for the probe, change the nose gear door to add the carrier landing lights in place of one of the main lights. Note the rear cockpit had a small console on the RH side and the aircraft had the fighter type integral boarding ladder.

Edit: Oh and you'll need to add the catapult hooks under the wing roots and the long ALQ-126 antenna covers on the intake sides for the later aircraft.

IIRC the main wheels are different too. You'll need the F-4J/S type mains for the thick wing RF-4Bs.

The exhausts and stabs were changed during the RF-4B's service life. I don't remember when the stabs were changed on the F-4B but my guess is that the RF-4Bs had theirs changed around the same time. I doubt you'll find an overall gull grey or low vis RF-4B with unslotted stabs though.

HTH,

Jens

Slotted stabilators were introduced to the F-4B from Block 26. These would have been retrofitted to the RF-4 survivors from BuNos 151975-153100 (blocks 20-25) during the Project Sure upgrades. I believe the later J79-GE-10 with the longer exhaust petals were introduced to maintain commonality with the F-4S once the F-4N was withdrawn from service since there are photographs in the Gray Ghosts and Detail & Scale's Colors and Markings book (among others) of both engine types fitted to 'early' and 'late' aircraft (including the same aircraft, for example, 153110) - mainly in TPS.

Edited August 2, 2010 by Wild Weasel V

[Impatient Pete]

Also the rear cockpit would need some mods, especially on the right side. What do you think?

Chuck

http://forum.largescaleplanes.com/index.ph...=10672&st=0

I never took it further than the posts in the topic. Once I get set up in my new place next year, I'll dig it out...