Paint mixing question

[Avroman]

When mixing water based paints would it be better to use hot water? Would this make the paint mix faster and better? I am used to enamels so I am not sure about acrylics.

[datahiker]

An interesting question. I've always used water at room temperature and it works just fine. I'm curious to read what others use.

I know some people say that distilled water works best but I use tap or filtered water (from a Brita pitcher) and haven't had any issues.

Edited August 25, 2010 by datahiker

[Avroman]

I know some people say that distilled water works best but I use tap or filtered water (from a Brita pitcher)

This would bring up another question to add. We are not on city or town water here but a deep well. The water has a high concentration of mineralization. Iron, calcium, lime, sulphur etc. Not to be gross but after 2 or 3 days you can see iron deposits in the washroom. Also shower heads don't last long. The holes in the shower head get blocked very quickly. I wonder would this have an effect on the paint, but more important on the airbrush?

Edited August 25, 2010 by Avroman

[robw_uk]

This would bring up another question to add. We are not on city or town water here but a deep well. The water has a high concentration of mineralization. Iron, calcium, lime, sulphur etc. Not to be gross but after 2 or 3 days you can see iron deposits in the washroom. Also shower heads don't last long. The holes in the shower head get blocked very quickly. I wonder would this have an effect on the paint, but more important on the airbrush?

I would expect it would have an effect but the amount of water you would use to thin it would be on the small size - could cause problems with an airbrush or have some effect on the paint....

I am considering trying acrylics as I need to restock for SEAC scheme and was taken with the tap water idea... is it really that simple?

[thunder57]

Mostly I use acrilic paint - Gunze - always mixed with original thinner ( I use ratio 1 : 1 ) drying time is shorter and surface is smoother than with water.

[Chuck1945]

Mostly I use acrilic paint - Gunze - always mixed with original thinner ( I use ratio 1 : 1 ) drying time is shorter and surface is smoother than with water.

Gunze Aqueous paints (and Tamiya) are not water based. Triarius can give a better explanation, but these are designed to use an alcohol based thinner which is why you got better results using something other than water. I usually use Tamiya's X-20A acrylic thinner with both Gunze and Tamiya paints.

For Avroman, hot water shouldn't make any difference, but impurities such as minerals in the water could degrade the paint. Wouldn't worry too much about the airbrush though as long as you clean it after use with something not Windex or Simple Green (not the mineralized water )

[Edgar]

Slightly off the subject, but I filter (even from the tap) all water for drinking and cooking; it might pay to consider investing in a filter jug, or similar. It's a different range, but a friend discovered that warm (not hot) water made Xtracrylix easier to spray. Allegedly, the ice, around your freezer box, is equivalent to filtered water, but I'm a bit sceptical of that; I've stayed with enamels, anyway, so it's slightly academic.

Edgar

[balls47]

Yessir, I am like you, mostly enamels. However, when I do use acrylics and thin with water, I used distilled water, thus no impurities. I also have a well and would never think of mixing it with paint. However, I have digressed. Back to your question about hot water. That's a good question. I use warm water for decals, so I'm gonna give it a try with paint. Thanks!

[Triarius]

Don't use hot water. Warm (room temperature) is fine. The reason for not using hot water is twofold:

1. hot water evaporates more rapidly. Since acrylics are notorious for tip-dry, this is not helping.
   
2. Paints, as opposed to lacquers, cure. Curing is a chemical reaction. Most chemical reactions are speeded up by addition of heat. This is why I never clean acrylics, whether in the airbrush or on a bristle brush with hot water.
   

The second issue: tap water.

Tap water impurities can play havoc with acrylic paints, and the higher the mineral content, the worse the problem can be. Distilled water is best for those acrylics using an aqueous (water) solvent system. Don't use water with Gunze or Tamiya acrylics. They use an alcohol solvent system that is not really compatible with water. Ninety percent concentration isopropyl alcohol, with a drop or two of acrylic retarder, works well with them.

Yes. The ice that collects on the walls of your freezer is pure, distilled water. It is a condensate of moisture from the air, which contains no impurities, and from evaporation of moisture from the frozen items in the freezer (yes, water migrates into the air at sub-freezing temperatures). This is what causes "freezer burn."

Filtering water may or may not remove all impurities. Most filters are intended to remove those known or suspected of being harmful to humans, or that just taste or smell bad. Most do not remove calcium (hard water), or sodium, or iron. These and other more or less harmless dissolved minerals have the potential to cause problems with the acrylic paint.

We have a water softener and one of the most complete filtration systems you can buy. I still use only distilled water to thin acrylics.

[Phantom ordie]

I thin MM acrylics with laquer thinner and add a retarder.

[Dndieje]

I like to use Citadel water colours for detail brush painting (cockpits, landing gear, figures etc.).

Always use tap water, lukewarm with a drop of washing-up liquid. This helps break the surface tension.

Hope this helps.

[Youngtiger1]

I use distill water on MM acrylic paints and it works great for me. I have read that people mix their acrylic with white spirit and get good results. Now, can anyone please tell me what is White Spirit?

Mike

[ThatJeffGuy]

I use distill water on MM acrylic paints and it works great for me. I have read that people mix their acrylic with white spirit and get good results. Now, can anyone please tell me what is White Spirit?

Mike

White Spirit is sold in hardware stores here as something called 'Paint Thinner'...I use it to thin Humbrol enamels periodically but have never

heard of it used to thin acrylics. MM acryl is hated by many but I hear it works best with MM's own Acryl thinner with a bit of retarder.

I also use white spirits (paint thinner) for all my airbrush cleaning and save the comparatively more expensive MM enamel thinner just for thinning

my MM enamels

[Triarius]

White spirits usually means naptha. It may dissolve some acrylics, but I certainly wouldn't recommend it—undoubtedly does funny things to the polymer, is completely unnecessary, and removes one of the best reasons to use acrylics. Those who use it are mostly old enamel users who want acrylics to behave like the enamels to which they are accustomed.

Dumb…well, at least backwards and "sot in their ways." Acrylics are a different crittur, and require different handling. Like any animal, when treated properly, they behave predictably and well. Use the proprietary thinner, or a compatible thinner. Naptha is not a compatible thinner for acrylics—marginal at best. Just because it dissolves the polymer and doesn't turn it into goo doesn't mean it's compatible. :)

[Youngtiger1]

Jeff, There was a discussion on hyperscale that I read couple of weeks ago and in which folks mention that they use lacquer thinner and white spirit to mix with acrylic paints to airbrush with great results. I personally haven't tried it yet since my airbrush is down but I'll do a test to see what happens.

Just yesterday, I picked up the old tamiya's MMI 2005 #111 and 112. These cover the build on tamiya's 1/32 F-16 and the individual that build the Viper used a mixture of oil paints thinned with white spirit for weathering effect and applied it on base color. Which happened to be acrylic. He did wrote that he sealed the base color with several think coats of klear before applying the mix and that he was worried that it might attack the base paint but it didn't (page 32). So, my question is...

Can one add enamel paints and acrylic paints in a single project without any problems? I mean, once the either of the paint dries before applying the other over it. As this individual did in the article in the magazine.

What would you guys consider the ratio for a mix of paint / thinner for a weather wash? Lets say...black, brown, and thinner.

Mike

[Triarius]

Jeff, There was a discussion on hyperscale that I read couple of weeks ago and in which folks mention that they use lacquer thinner and white spirit to mix with acrylic paints to airbrush with great results.

Read my previous post.

Can one add enamel paints and acrylic paints in a single project without any problems? I mean, once the either of the paint dries before applying the other over it.

Absolutely. But the paint has to be cured, not merely dry. Using an acrylic wash over an enamel, provided you don't do something dumb like using naptha to thin the acrylic, is SOP. So is using an acrylic over an enamel, with the same caveat. Oil paints (artist's paints) thinned with mineral spirits work very well.

What would you guys consider the ratio for a mix of paint / thinner for a weather wash? Lets say...black, brown, and thinner.

I don't use a specific ratio for washes—basically water thin.

[ThatJeffGuy]

What would you guys consider the ratio for a mix of paint / thinner for a weather wash? Lets say...black, brown, and thinner.

I don't use a specific ratio for washes—basically water thin.

+1 ... think of it as 'tinted thinner' more than 'thinned paint'. If you're mixing in a cup tilt the cup to let the mixture ride up the side...it should

just run back down instead of sticking as it would if you were mixing a regular paint setup and it should also be translucent (see-through). It has

to be a lot thinner than you probably think it has to be. That's what causes it to run along a panel line.

[Avroman]

I did a test today. Sprayed some and used water from a de-humidifier. That is basically distilled water. It worked nice.