OFF TOPIC!

[JMan]

Hey been awhile since I have started a new topic. Some of you may know that I have a bulging disc in my back, well the pain has gotten worse and worse since then. I went back to the doctor and had a CT Scan and found out that I have a herniated disc right below the bulging disc, and thats why I havent really been doing any models or posting, and miss the hell out of it. Just want to know if anyone else has the same issue and if there is a difference between just a bulging and herniated or if they are the same and anything you are doing for pain control. I am currently doing daily stretches and my doctor changed me from Tylenol w/Codeine to Vicodin. Any other suggestions would be awesome. Thanks again and sorry its been so long since I have really been here other than a few observations of builds in progress.

[Llarry]

If I remember correctly (I am not a doctor. I did once take a Sports medicine class in college.), the bulging disc is slightly out of position (bulging out one side of the spine) and inflamed, and possibly putting some pressure on the spinal column. Possibly at least partially caused by proximity to the herniated disc. The herniated disc is the more serious, it is more fully displaced, and even pinched by the vertebrae.

Your doctor will tell you if and when surgery would be necessary, a lot of the rest is pain management and hoping to control and reduce the inflammation (and thereby, the pain). It may or may not be "fixable" by non-intrusive means. A chiropractor or other therapist might help, some doctors don't take such treatments seriously. There may also be a legitimate medical reason to avoid.

Another possibility that might help out some is Inversion. An Inversion table (I have one and use it from time to time) or inversion boots anchor your ankles and allow you to hang upside down, stretching your back and countering the regular effects of gravity. YOU MUST CHECK WITH YOUR DOCTOR FIRST given your current condition (anybody else, with occasional lower back pain and no evidence of structural damage, feel free to give it a try). It might help, but the doc needs to tell you whether your specifics might make it worse instead.

[Slartibartfast]

Some years ago, I used to roller blade (shut up, ya'll). I over-exerted once and bulged a lumbar disk. The bulge irritated a nerve branch that ran down the back of my leg which gav me sciatica-like symptoms. I couldn't take the time off necessary to let it heal, so I had two epidural cortisone injections. That eliminated the nerve inflamation. I presume the disk is back to normal as I haven't had any pain since then.

[F-15fan]

I had a bulging disc when I was in my late 30's. It got so bad that one of my feet was partially paralized and caused me to walk with a limp for about 6 weeks. I checked with a Chriopractor and he told me I had a bulging disc. It was from bending over too much working on car engines. His suggestion was to bend my back backwards to undo the pressure on the front of my disc from working on car engines. I started doing this and sure enough the bulging went away over time. Now I'm older and my discs have compressed and I never have back pain.

Recently I was at the Doctor with a bit of back pain and I discussed back pain with her and she asked my to touch my toes with my knees locked. I couldn't even get close. She told me the upper back is connected to the lower back which is all connected to the butt and back of the legs all the way down the feet. If the back of the legs and butt ligiments aren't stretched and flexible.....then that pulls on the back and can cause back issues. So doing stretching exercises are important.....but focus on the whole body.....don't just do exercises that stretch the back and ignore stretch the legs. You need to stretch your whole body.

[Jennings]

I'm not a doctor, but I am an RN (and I slept a Holiday Inn last night). A bulging disk isn't the same thing as a herniated disk. Usually a bulging disk doesn't cause too much problem, but a herniated disk certainly can (and will).

Tylenol #3 (Tylenol with codeine) and Vicodin (Tylenol with hydrocodone) are very similar, but obviously the hydrocodone is a much stronger analgesic. The Tylenol will help reduce the inflammation involved, and the opioid drug will take away the pain.

If anybody starts talking about surgery, my advice is to get at LEAST two other opinions from physicians not in any way related to the one wanting to do the cutting. Back surgery is extremely serious business, and it only takes one time to screw you up for the rest of your life. Question to ask if you do end up getting cut on are:

1. How many of *THIS* procedure have you done?

2. How frequently do you do them?

3. What is your success rate with THIS procedure?

4. Can I talk with some patients of yours who have had THIS procedure done by YOU (if not, run the other way, fast).

5. If you were needing this procedure done on yourself, who would you get to do it, and why?

It's sort of like flying. The guy who has only done 20 of the procedures may be a better bet than the guy who has done 100, but I'd rather have the guy who's done 5000 of them. But the success rate is a key indicator. Just because someone has "MD" behind his name doesn't make him/her a good surgeon. Far from it. Most people don't ask nearly enough questions before they let somebody cut on them. And just because he lives next door to your friend's mother-in-law means NOTHING. He may be the nicest guy in the world, but he could still be a lousy surgeon. No worthwhile physician is going to bat an eye at your getting a second or a third opinion. If they do, run the other way, fast.

Good luck with it!

J

[skidbuggy]

I went through two surgeries on my lower back. L5-S1 both times. The modality of what I went through were time and rest, physical therapy, anti-inflamitory meds, then I had a Cortozone shot in the spine... I had a very bad reaction to that and the doc had to stop the procedure and then finally had the surgery. The first was April 1998 and the second ten years ago almost to the day.

I guess it worked for me, but on the days where I'm doing alot of bending, such as brewing, my lower back will feel it.

Good luck, with this JMan, I feel your pain...

Alex

edit: bad speling

Edited December 17, 2010 by skidbuggy

[madmanrick]

I had a bulging disc in my neck (between C-5 & C-6) that went undiagnosed (despite numerous and repeated trips to the doctor between 1990 and 2001. Finally that disc herniated and began pressing on my spinal cord. After a one last attempt to obtain some assistance from my HMO doctor, it was finally diagnosed by a fill in for my PCP doctor, who used an earlier X-ray that had been taken the year before. She was able to see enough on that X-ray to recommend an MRI, which caught the herniation. I was in surgery less than 2 weeks later, as this had gotten so bad that they were concerned that I might be paralyzed if it had gotten any worse. The Chief of Orthopedic Neuro-Surgery at Henry Ford Hospital in Detroit, did my surgery the week after 9/11 and everything has been great since then. Although I was medically unable to return to my former career, I have been pain-free and healthy since then. However, if I had had ANY options available to me other than surgery, I would have attempted those long before I considered surgery.

I will caution you to avoid "pain-management" therapies, particularly if it involves cortisone injections into the problem disc area. That was THE single most horrifying and painful experience I've ever undergone. It in fact made my pain even worse after the fact. However, this was prior to my being diagnosed with a herniated disc and at the time, the diagnoses was a "pinched nerve"!! HTH,

Rick

OBTW, I attempted to sue the original HMO doctor for malpractice and thanks to the genius politicians in MI, who decided to cap pain and suffering awards. Long story short, I was unable to locate an attorney that felt the case would net enough $$$ to make it worth while to proceed, due to the expense vs. award calculation. Therefore that hack was able to avoid any liability in this matter, sure wish I had lived in NY then, it would have been a whole 'nuther ballgame if that had been the case!

[JMan]

Thanks for all the replies. I thought that there was a difference between a bulging and herniated disc. The VA nurse said that they were the same. I guess that I have alot of things to contemplate regarding this issue. I am just glad that I am not the crazy one and just imagining this pain. About 9 or so months ago my original diagnosis was just arthritis and they suggested steroid shots to cover that pain. I am glad that I didnt do that because it probably wouldnt have helped and if I am not mistaken its not recommended to have more than 3 or 4 or the medication will actually do more damage than good, plus I frickin HATE needles. I sure wish that I could sue those QUACKS. I knew I wasnt crazy.

[Slartibartfast]

Steroids have been shown to increase risk of cataracts, as has general anesthesia. Guess that's why I had lensectomy at age 50.

[Jennings]

Steroids have been shown to increase risk of cataracts, as has general anesthesia. Guess that's why I had lensectomy at age 50.

Who told you that general anesthesia causes cataracts? I've never heard anything like that as an RN, and am currently *in* anesthesia school, and I can't find any literature *at all* that even remotely mentions cataracts having to do with anesthetic drugs.

J

[F-15fan]

Who told you that general anesthesia causes cataracts? I've never heard anything like that as an RN, and am currently *in* anesthesia school, and I can't find any literature *at all* that even remotely mentions cataracts having to do with anesthetic drugs.

J

It gives new meaning to the phrase......."if you keep doing that....you'll go blind."

[JMan]

It gives new meaning to the phrase......."if you keep doing that....you'll go blind."

LMAO! Thats does give new meaning to that!

[Sunliner]

I'm not a doctor, but I am an RN (and I slept a Holiday Inn last night). A bulging disk isn't the same thing as a herniated disk. Usually a bulging disk doesn't cause too much problem, but a herniated disk certainly can (and will).

Tylenol #3 (Tylenol with codeine) and Vicodin (Tylenol with hydrocodone) are very similar, but obviously the hydrocodone is a much stronger analgesic. The Tylenol will help reduce the inflammation involved, and the opioid drug will take away the pain.

If anybody starts talking about surgery, my advice is to get at LEAST two other opinions from physicians not in any way related to the one wanting to do the cutting. Back surgery is extremely serious business, and it only takes one time to screw you up for the rest of your life. Question to ask if you do end up getting cut on are:

1. How many of *THIS* procedure have you done?

2. How frequently do you do them?

3. What is your success rate with THIS procedure?

4. Can I talk with some patients of yours who have had THIS procedure done by YOU (if not, run the other way, fast).

5. If you were needing this procedure done on yourself, who would you get to do it, and why?

It's sort of like flying. The guy who has only done 20 of the procedures may be a better bet than the guy who has done 100, but I'd rather have the guy who's done 5000 of them. But the success rate is a key indicator. Just because someone has "MD" behind his name doesn't make him/her a good surgeon. Far from it. Most people don't ask nearly enough questions before they let somebody cut on them. And just because he lives next door to your friend's mother-in-law means NOTHING. He may be the nicest guy in the world, but he could still be a lousy surgeon. No worthwhile physician is going to bat an eye at your getting a second or a third opinion. If they do, run the other way, fast.

Good luck with it!

J

FWIW...I'm a kinesiotherapist with 16 years of working with back issues among other things. I agree wholeheartedly with the above; I was about to type pretty much the exact same information. Good luck!

-Mike

[JMan]

FWIW...I'm a kinesiotherapist with 16 years of working with back issues among other things. I agree wholeheartedly with the above; I was about to type pretty much the exact same information. Good luck!

-Mike

WOW, had no idea that so many people would have had so much VITAL information regarding this situation. Thanks again guys!

[Jennings]

Like I said, most people don't ask nearly enough questions before they let somebody start cutting on them. That's because most people don't know what to ask, so it's always a good idea to ask around of people you know, especially anybody who is in the medical field.

J

[DutyCat]

Back when I was in flight training (age 45 at the time), I injured some of the lower discs in my back removing some deeply rooted shrubs from our front yard. I tried rest, exercise, then steroids. The steroids worked wonderfully while I was taking them, but as soon as they were done, the inflammation came back with a vengeance. I finally got an MRI and went to see a neurosurgeon. He said surgery was my only real option unless I wanted to live with the pain and risk nerve damage. I talked to some folks who said, "Don't do it. Your back will never be the same." But I decided to go ahead and do it because I was suffering so much. I put my flight training on hold for two months and had the surgery. It was the best decision I could have made because I am almost pain free now. If I work to hard or lift something I shouldn't, I will get a twinge, but that is a lot better than the alternative. If you think you have a good surgeon, and he is recommending the surgery, then I would consider getting it done if I were you.

[Slartibartfast]

Who told you that general anesthesia causes cataracts?

The opthamologists who were examining my eyes in preparation for Lasik. They were surprised at the early onset. Apparently exposure to steroids and/or anasthesia causes denaturing of the lens proteins, not the typical hardening and clouding caused by lifetime U.V. exposure.