Matt Walker Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 G'day, Specifically, the TBD. What FS number was the grey-blue, and is there a Testors equiv? If not an out of bottle match, any suggestions? TIA! Matthew Quote Link to post Share on other sites
David Rapasi Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 (edited) The early TBDs were painted with what appears to be QMS #12 Blue Gray which is a close match to FS 35189. Model Master 1721 Medium Gray FS 35237 is a close match to QMS #12 Blue Gray. Later aircraft appear to be a darker shade of Blue Gray, close to Model Masters 1723, ANA 603 Sea Gray, FS 36118 Gunship Gray. After all of the paint has faded it appears to be the same color. Dave Edited February 22, 2012 by David Rapasi Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Hal Marshman Sr Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 (edited) Model Master makes a half=way decent USN Blue Gray, which I've used to good effect. When dry it appears slightly faded. Hal Sr Tamiya 1/48th F4U-1. Too much flash on the tail feathers is distorting the color in that area. Wings and forward fuselage reflect the color best. Edited February 21, 2012 by Hal Marshman Sr Quote Link to post Share on other sites
racerman Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 G'day, Specifically, the TBD. What FS number was the grey-blue, and is there a Testors equiv? If not an out of bottle match, any suggestions? TIA! Matthew Model Masters Intermediate Blue is a close match. Do not, Do not paint it Gunship Grey!!!!!. Gunship grey was developed post Viet Nam for the AC-130 Gunship. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Hal Marshman Sr Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Let me repeat, Testor's Model Master Enamel produces a workeable USN top sides Blue Gray. Do not use Intermediate Blue, it is much too much a blue shade. When these colors were in use, there were no FS color numbers. The FS system came into use about 25 or so years ago. Hal Sr, Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jennings Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 The FS system came into use about 25 or so years ago. Hal Sr, Wow... 1956 was only 25 years ago? My how time flies :) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Matt Walker Posted February 22, 2012 Author Share Posted February 22, 2012 What number is it Hal, and color name? (Let me guess, Blue-gray is a possibility, but sometimes they aren't that obvious, Like "Aggressor Gray") Thanks everyone! M Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Hal Marshman Sr Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 I'm sorry, the label on my bottle is too worn to read. I know that MM calls it Blue/Gray, and on the rack, it's with the rest of the Navy colors. Jennings, no need for sarcasm here, I'd expect more to see that over on HS. I've really never payed much attention to the FS system, as it rarely applies to the stuff I'm doing. I'm 76 years of age, and I do believe I can be forgiven if I don't remember exactly when a paint system I don't use came into being. I'd actually thought better of you. Hal Sr Quote Link to post Share on other sites
WymanV Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Model Master's Blue/Gray is actually on the rack in the RAF/FAA section. It is only noted as Blue Gray, and is lighter than the USN Blue Gray. W.E.M. nailed the color, and it's all I use on my early WW II USN aircraft. A dash of white "fades" it nicely. And a mix of faded and fresh: Ken Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rank11 Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 It is Navy Blue Gray, Model Master #2055 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
David Rapasi Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 The original bottles of MM2055 Blue Gray also had the QMS number of the paint, M-485. M-485 was used on; 1940 US NAVY patrol aircraft topsides. 1941 US NAVY land based amphibian-aircraft topsides. As seen on the above paint chips M-485 Blue Gray is darker than QMS #12 Blue Gray. The actual paint in the MM 2055 bottle is lighter and bluer than QMS #12 Blue Gray. The Testors catalogue still lists the color MM 2055 as M-485 Blue Gray. Dave Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DonSS3 Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 (edited) I used Modelmaster Blue-Gray on my F4U-2 (Photographed outside in Natural Sunlight): On my TBD (built back in the late 80s, IIRC) I used Floquil's version: I think the Floquil has a little more green than the MM version, but then, I could have a yellowing clearcoat on the TBD. Edited February 22, 2012 by DonSS3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
David Rapasi Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 This Devastator was built in 2004. Included with the photo is the paint chip for QMS #12 Blue Gray used on the model. The right side of the chip is about 50% lighter to get an idea of how the color appears when it fades. Dave Quote Link to post Share on other sites
racerman Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 I'm sorry, the label on my bottle is too worn to read. I know that MM calls it Blue/Gray, and on the rack, it's with the rest of the Navy colors. Jennings, no need for sarcasm here, I'd expect more to see that over on HS. I've really never payed much attention to the FS system, as it rarely applies to the stuff I'm doing. I'm 76 years of age, and I do believe I can be forgiven if I don't remember exactly when a paint system I don't use came into being. I'd actually thought better of you. Hal Sr I never could find that color over on the MM American side of the rack< I was wondering where you got that color, Thanks. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
WymanV Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 I never could find that color over on the MM American side of the rack< I was wondering where you got that color, Thanks. http://s362974870.on...dpost&p=2337288 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Otto Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 (edited) OOOOOOOOOOhhh-Brotha, Here we go again. It is M-485. The modelmaster color is the right shade but a bit light. British PRU Blue is extremely close albeit a bit darker. Intermediate blue is too blue. Edited February 23, 2012 by Otto Quote Link to post Share on other sites
David Rapasi Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 OOOOOOOOOOhhh-Botha, Here we go again. It is M-485. The modelmaster color is the right shade but a bit light. Azzure Blue is extremely close. Intermediate blue is too blue. I am confused; In an earlier article you said Blue Gray was closest to FS 35189 only a few shades darker. Also you said that the M-485 color chip I posted was a close match and the Model Master color was way off. Dave Quote Link to post Share on other sites
chriss7606 Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Ok, I've watched this too long and have to post a reply. First, VT-8's TBDs WERE NOT painted Gunship Gray, Medium Gray, or any other kind of gray on top- they were most decidedly blue. Follow the link. http://www.centuryinter.net/midway/Carrier_Squadrons/Torpedo_Eight/in_color.html . These are stills from John Ford's film, "Torpedo Squadron Eight in Color". Only 30 copies were ever released (one for each of the families of the VT-8 crews plus Ens. George Gay). The stills show the top and bottom colors well along with some interesting details. Of note is the fact that the tops of the outer wing panels still have a somewhat glossy sheen to them, more than likely because since the wings were folded the tops did not weather as quickly. One of the other photos shows that in at least one case the red circles were still in the center of the insignias on the bottom of the wings. Probably the best match for the top color would be Model Master's paint which is labled USN Blue Gray. The film can actually be watched in its entirety on YouTube. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Hal Marshman Sr Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 "Azure Blue is extremely close." Sorry Otto, but any premixed Azure Blue I've ever seen is also way too blue, as well as being much too vivid. Hal SrI Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Otto Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 I am confused; In an earlier article you said Blue Gray was closest to FS 35189 only a few shades darker. Also you said that the M-485 color chip I posted was a close match and the Model Master color was way off. Dave OK------- I'm not saying anything diferent here? im still saying it is M-485 and that the model master collr is too light. ?????? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Falcon50EX Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Matt, personally i think David's interpretation of the blue gray colour looks the best. However, purely for comparison purposes, here are 2 shots of my Tamiya F4F-4. I used MM Blue Gray straight from the bottle. MM Light Gull Gray looked too dark compared to the Blue Gray, so i went back and re-sprayed the undersides with FS 36495, Aircraft Gray. The model was clear-coated with Future, and given an engine gray panel line wash, so what you see here is the paint after the inevitable colour shifts associated with clear coats. Hey- it's another data point, ye know? Hope it helps. d-bot Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rex Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Hal, Azure Blue's appearance is because it was not an overall paint color,,,,,,,it was a Squadron trim color in the "Blue era" after WW II, and the same color was later named Light Blue during the Light Gull Gray era,,,,,,most famously seen on VF-44's Cougars 35231 was the FS,,,and it was not for airframe camouflaging at all M-485, FS 35189 is marketed as MM Enamel #2055, MM Acryl #4847, XtraColor 162, Italeri #4766, Vallejo # 70904, LifeColor UA 038,,,,,,,and the one I use,,,,,Color of Eagles #3048 hope that helps someone out Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rex Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 D-Bot, I like your idea,,,it looks more "in scale" on the bottom of the aircraft than strict Lt Gull Gray does Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Falcon50EX Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 (edited) Maybe its because i'm old and cranky now, but the selection of a colour based on FS number should be the beginning of colour selection, not the end. Even Testor's Model Master shows a remarkable variance in colour between multiple bottles of the same colour paint (take Interior Green for example). At the end of the day you need to apply some paint (to something) let it dry, take it outside in natural daylight, compare it to photos, and then give it a thumbs up or down. Thats how i determined the MM Gull Gray was a step in the wrong direction (though i could have fixed it by cutting it 50-50 with flat white, like i did on my Crusader). David Rapasi has gone a great way in explaining just how much variability there was in the pre- FS days. d-bot Edited February 23, 2012 by Falcon50EX Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Hal Marshman Sr Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 (edited) This Light Gull Gray business is getting too much. I don't know where or when it started, but LGG evolved from USN Non Spec Light Gray. approx 1943. By which time, the undersides of Navy planes were no longer being painted Lt Gray. USN Non Spec Light Gray is the color. I believe some Revell/Monogram instruction sheets still call for Intermediate Blue over Light Gull Gray, but that is typical of the disservice that the model companies used to perform on us. I know the 1/48th PBY sheet called for Int. Blue in place of USN Blue/Gray. A couple of posters in this thread have been trying to put things to rights, but still we get posts calling for the wrong colors. David Rapasi is to be congratulated for his stalwart and probably tedious attempts to bring some sense into the debate. From my own personal point of view, I couldn't care less of someone wants to paint his models incorrectly, they're his models. What bothers me is how they continue to perpetuate these old myths in the face of pretty decent evidence to the contrary. Hal Sr Edited February 24, 2012 by Hal Marshman Sr Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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