rustywelder Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 I'm looking for pics of USN T-38s not wearing the current USNTPS colours. I know about the test pilots school Talons, and have seen a couple of not great photos of an aggressor bird. Was this a Top Gun aircraft and did any standard training squadrons use the Talon? Cheers! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Finn Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 Here are a couple of Aggressor T-38 pics: http://naval.aviation.museum/emuwebdoncoms/objects/common/webmedia.php?irn=48573 http://naval.aviation.museum/emuwebdoncoms/objects/common/webmedia.php?irn=48577 A USNTPS T-38: http://media.nara.gov/stillpix/330-cfd/1985/DN-SN-85-05642.jpeg Jari Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Vince Maddux Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 I have a lot of photos, but I am in the process of adding the markings to the Vagabonds decal's up coming Bicentennial/USN T-38 sheet. Vince Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rustywelder Posted July 10, 2014 Author Share Posted July 10, 2014 Thanks Jari! I love that Ferris scheme bird. Vince you wouldn't maybe willing to share after the sheet is released would you? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Vince Maddux Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 Thanks Jari! I love that Ferris scheme bird. Vince you wouldn't maybe willing to share after the sheet is released would you? I'm sure I can. Mike at Vagabond will be making an announcement shortly with the new jets added to the sheet. I liked the Ferris scheme too. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rustywelder Posted July 10, 2014 Author Share Posted July 10, 2014 Thanks much Vince. I have no doubt that the Vagabond sheet will be awesome but.... unfortunately I'm looking do do a couple in 1/72. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
VFA-103guy Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 Thanks much Vince. I have no doubt that the Vagabond sheet will be awesome but.... unfortunately I'm looking do do a couple in 1/72. You might be in the hold pattern for a while on those for 72nd. Mike is an avid 72nd scale builder, so I'm sure they'll see the light of day at some point. Here's a thought for you..a special request for a custom sheet might be worth the try if you've got the green. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MHaz Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 Thanks much Vince. I have no doubt that the Vagabond sheet will be awesome but.... unfortunately I'm looking do do a couple in 1/72. You might be in the hold pattern for a while on those for 72nd. Mike is an avid 72nd scale builder, so I'm sure they'll see the light of day at some point. Here's a thought for you..a special request for a custom sheet might be worth the try if you've got the green. Here's the big problem with 1/72: while I don't believe the argument that it doesn't sell, it IS a fact that it doesn't sell as well as 1/48. Cartograf has a minimum print run of 300 sheets, Microscale 250. At those quantities, the price/sheet gets a bit more expensive to produce. That production price has to be figured into the retail price. One thing that seems to slip through all the arguments about 72/48: for us decal guys, the scale doesn't factor into our costs. Most printers charge by the size of the sheet, the number of colors and the quantity, so a 1/72 sheet and a 1/48 sheet of the same subject, are going to cost me the same, assuming the size and quantity are identical. Having said all that, I want to build a few of these jets myself, so I am looking into options that might keep the costs down. The big issue in 1/72 is the lack of a decent T-38. Hasegawa's kit, while readily available is really more of an F-5B. Sword's kit, while more accurate, is rather more expensive and somewhat harder to get. What I'd really like to see is for Wolfpack to release their kit in 1/72. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rustywelder Posted July 10, 2014 Author Share Posted July 10, 2014 Hey Mike, please to don't take my response to Vince as an attempt to pester for a 1/72 sheet. Thanks to this board I've learned alot about the costs involved in producing decals. And as you pointed out there is not much in the way of kits out there for the Talon in 1/72, so it is understandable that there is no incentive to incur the cost of making the sheet. My intention right from the start was to get some pics and try to cobble together something from other sheets in the stash. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Joe Hegedus Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 FWIW, one of the early releases of the Hasegawa T-38 included markings for a USNTPS airplane in the early scheme as seen in the third photo that Finn linked to above. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MHaz Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 Hey Mike, please to don't take my response to Vince as an attempt to pester for a 1/72 sheet. Thanks to this board I've learned alot about the costs involved in producing decals. And as you pointed out there is not much in the way of kits out there for the Talon in 1/72, so it is understandable that there is no incentive to incur the cost of making the sheet. My intention right from the start was to get some pics and try to cobble together something from other sheets in the stash. If you're wanting to build one of the TOPGUN jets, I'd try to find Fightertown's excellent 1/72 adversary sheets, either the F-14's or -18's for the TOPGUN badges. Microscale did an F-5/T-38 adversary sheet way, way back in the day, but it's of questionable accuracy (I have it, and it has a lot of problems). You could, however, pull the light blue Modex characters off the sheet, maybe a BuNo or 2, as well. Once we get the placement guides done, I'll be happy to send you a .pdf of them, so you have accurate painting instructions. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rustywelder Posted July 10, 2014 Author Share Posted July 10, 2014 FWIW, one of the early releases of the Hasegawa T-38 included markings for a USNTPS airplane in the early scheme as seen in the third photo that Finn linked to above. Thanks Joe, I'll do some searching. It might be worth getting even if i just keep the decals and bin the kit. If you're wanting to build one of the TOPGUN jets, I'd try to find Fightertown's excellent 1/72 adversary sheets, either the F-14's or -18's for the TOPGUN badges. Microscale did an F-5/T-38 adversary sheet way, way back in the day, but it's of questionable accuracy (I have it, and it has a lot of problems). You could, however, pull the light blue Modex characters off the sheet, maybe a BuNo or 2, as well.Once we get the placement guides done, I'll be happy to send you a .pdf of them, so you have accurate painting instructions. Thanks for the tips and offer Mike, I appreciate it very much! Off to ebay to begin the hunt. :) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SERNAK Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 Was this a Top Gun aircraft and did any standard training squadrons use the Talon? Cheers! I don't know to which T-38 you're referring but, I do know that NFWS did use 4 Talons "wearing" from time to time, an Israeli three-tone paint scheme, a Ferris look-alike camo, a light-blue / dark-blue splinter scheme, a ghost scheme, and the USAF "grape" paint scheme. I have tried in the past to reproduce the Ferris look-alike scheme but, unfortunately I didn't have photos from the wings upper and lower surfaces so, it was more of a 'guess' build! The thing with these specific aircrafts from NFWS is that there are limited references photos available in books and magazines, which makes it even harder to try to reproduce them. On the other hand, I bet there are a few guys out there that MUST have photos of these beautiful Talons!!! Other adversary squadrons that have used the T-38 are, the VF-43, VF-126 and VFA-127. Now, the problem with 1/72 is that its difficult to reproduce serial numbers in this scale (unfortunately, all NFWS T-38s had one!!!!). As far as it concerns the Hasegawa T-38 (which is actually an F-5B), I think there was a FineScale Modeller issue that had an article on how to convert it. On the other hand, the advantage with the NFWS T-38s is that they didn't have a lot of special markings on them, just the School's badge and a large number on the tail. I agree with MHaz, Microscale did produce some decals sheets in 1/72 for the adversary aircrafts BUT their quality was not good. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rotorwash Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 I am not a jet guy by any stretch, but I have these t-38's form the Paul Minert Collection. Check the file names for pertinent info on BuNo, Time , Place, Photographer, etc. HTH Ray Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rotorwash Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 More. \ Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rotorwash Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 Still more. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rustywelder Posted July 28, 2014 Author Share Posted July 28, 2014 Thanks Rotorwash! those are some great pics. Does anybody know what the story with the red one is? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rotorwash Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 Thanks Rotorwash! those are some great pics. Does anybody know what the story with the red one is? You are most welcome. Weren't the red ones target drones? Like I said, I'm not jet expert. Ray Quote Link to post Share on other sites
hblecha Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 (edited) You are most welcome. Weren't the red ones target drones? Like I said, I'm not jet expert. Ray Yep, you are right Ray. The "red one" was a target drone, just as were all of the T-38"s at China Lake. That's why they were referred to as QT-38A. I might also add that the "red one" was painted that color using rattle cans of paint. No air brushing on this dude. Also the underside was not painted red and remained the white color. You can see that on the main gear door. There was some overspray onto the white under the forward part of the fuselage. Things got a little tight under that area. The red was probable used to increase the visibility of the drone during the particular test program. For the pilot, not the missile. Also quite possibility for the trackers on the camera and folks responsible for data reduction. At some point in the 80's the Air Force recalled any remaining QT-38A's at China Lake. The drone equipment was pulled out and they were returned as requested as a T-38A. And that's all she wrote. Ciao!! Henry Blecha Edited July 28, 2014 by hblecha Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SERNAK Posted August 2, 2014 Share Posted August 2, 2014 Great photos Rotorwash! Thanks for sharing!!! Looks like NFWS had transfered their T-38s to China Lake. Still, very helpful photos, especially the T-38 with the splinter scheme and how some of them had the pilots' names golden backgrounds "covered"!!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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