Eli Raphael Posted May 3, 2019 Share Posted May 3, 2019 Either plastic or resin. Thanks Quote Link to post Share on other sites
phantomdriver Posted May 3, 2019 Share Posted May 3, 2019 Eduard BRASSIN Quote Link to post Share on other sites
picknpluck Posted May 3, 2019 Share Posted May 3, 2019 Eduard's MERs are too short. Their own bombs won't fit. Aerobonus is another option. I don't know about TERs. I ordered Eduard's. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Eli Raphael Posted May 3, 2019 Author Share Posted May 3, 2019 Eduard and Eduard Brassin are two different brands? Yes I've read the Eduard's MERs are short. The same apllies to Brassin? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Solo Posted May 3, 2019 Share Posted May 3, 2019 Brassin it is a line of Eduard's products. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
shion Posted May 3, 2019 Share Posted May 3, 2019 Aerobonus for both. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Inquisitor Posted May 3, 2019 Share Posted May 3, 2019 3 hours ago, shion said: Aerobonus for both. Like Brassin is a line in Eduard's products, also their Zoom and Big Sin ones too. Aerobonus, Quickboost and Wheeliant are lines of products from Aires. As for the reason Eduard MERs are too short and many other of their long thin things like missiles, its an inherent problem from their design and manufacturing process, which they're aware of but don't seem to try to mitigate or compensate for longer or larger parts. Let me explain. Both the photoetch and resin parts are designed at the same time, in the computer they have the same measurements. The manufacturing of the Photoetch, won't add any or very negligible difference in the measurements, the films used to transfer the designs don't shrink and the brass sheets won't shrink during or after manufacturing. So basically what you see on the computer designs is what you get with their photoetch parts. Now here's comes where the discrepancy starts. The problem is in the resin masters, molds and the cast pieces. From their tour videos here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryAlTDl5Q1Q from their first master made with 3d printing they make many copies for backup and to use as masters for mass mold making and production, but as they explain in the video they're already 3 generations down, so the ones you get are already 4 generations of mold and resin castings down from their original masters. Now what's the problem? Even if their first master would have the perfect to scale measurements, but as ironically explained in the video silicon molds and resin do shrink and it's further exacerbated that they're 4gens down the line. Let's take example numbers from stuff I've used, smooth-on silicons have a 0.1%-0.2% shrinkage at best. Their resins have from 0.5 to 1% shrinkage. Taking a worse case, 4 gens down the line the ones you get are shrunk by 5% from the original design. Also the video explains that the shrinkage varies from piece to piece, but usually the longer/larger pieces the shrinkage will be more noticeable when for example the fin pieces are quite a bit larger and doesn't fit the recess or hole in a missile body that's shrunk quite a bit more than the smaller pieces. Another place where this is noticeable is when the photoetch parts don't match the size of the resin piece. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Eli Raphael Posted May 3, 2019 Author Share Posted May 3, 2019 Thanks for the explanation So what company makes accurate MERs and TERs in 1/48? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dave Roof Posted May 3, 2019 Share Posted May 3, 2019 9 minutes ago, Eli Raphael said: Thanks for the explanation So what company makes accurate MERs and TERs in 1/48? The most accurate MER's available are those that come in the Revell A-6E kit, or the Academy F-4J. Stay away from both the Eduard and Aerobonus items. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Eli Raphael Posted May 3, 2019 Author Share Posted May 3, 2019 Thanks Dave Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Specter1075 Posted May 4, 2019 Share Posted May 4, 2019 41 minutes ago, Dave Roof said: The most accurate MER's available are those that come in the Revell A-6E kit, or the Academy F-4J. Stay away from both the Eduard and Aerobonus items. How many come in each respective kit, can you say? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Eli Raphael Posted May 4, 2019 Author Share Posted May 4, 2019 I see only 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Specter1075 Posted May 4, 2019 Share Posted May 4, 2019 Ok, thanks! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
picknpluck Posted May 4, 2019 Share Posted May 4, 2019 The Academy F-4 MER/TER are very basic. Why not Hasegawa? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
shion Posted May 4, 2019 Share Posted May 4, 2019 9 hours ago, Inquisitor said: Like Brassin is a line in Eduard's products, also their Zoom and Big Sin ones too. Aerobonus, Quickboost and Wheeliant are lines of products from Aires. As for the reason Eduard MERs are too short and many other of their long thin things like missiles, its an inherent problem from their design and manufacturing process, which they're aware of but don't seem to try to mitigate or compensate for longer or larger parts. Let me explain. Both the photoetch and resin parts are designed at the same time, in the computer they have the same measurements. The manufacturing of the Photoetch, won't add any or very negligible difference in the measurements, the films used to transfer the designs don't shrink and the brass sheets won't shrink during or after manufacturing. So basically what you see on the computer designs is what you get with their photoetch parts. Now here's comes where the discrepancy starts. The problem is in the resin masters, molds and the cast pieces. From their tour videos here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryAlTDl5Q1Q from their first master made with 3d printing they make many copies for backup and to use as masters for mass mold making and production, but as they explain in the video they're already 3 generations down, so the ones you get are already 4 generations of mold and resin castings down from their original masters. Now what's the problem? Even if their first master would have the perfect to scale measurements, but as ironically explained in the video silicon molds and resin do shrink and it's further exacerbated that they're 4gens down the line. Let's take example numbers from stuff I've used, smooth-on silicons have a 0.1%-0.2% shrinkage at best. Their resins have from 0.5 to 1% shrinkage. Taking a worse case, 4 gens down the line the ones you get are shrunk by 5% from the original design. Also the video explains that the shrinkage varies from piece to piece, but usually the longer/larger pieces the shrinkage will be more noticeable when for example the fin pieces are quite a bit larger and doesn't fit the recess or hole in a missile body that's shrunk quite a bit more than the smaller pieces. Another place where this is noticeable is when the photoetch parts don't match the size of the resin piece. You missed the point. I'm answering the Topic title question: Best 1/48 MER & TER out there? Answer: Aerobonus. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dave Roof Posted May 4, 2019 Share Posted May 4, 2019 2 hours ago, shion said: You missed the point. I'm answering the Topic title question: Best 1/48 MER & TER out there? Answer: Aerobonus. I worked on the real MER and TER for 5 years and can guarantee from first hand experience the Aerobonus items are not the best. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
shion Posted May 4, 2019 Share Posted May 4, 2019 15 minutes ago, Dave Roof said: I worked on the real MER and TER for 5 years and can guarantee from first hand experience the Aerobonus items are not the best. And I followed several builds where people used Hasegawa TERs and MERs differents versions, Academy ones, Eduard ones and Aerobonus ones. And in the end, I considered the Aerobonus items are the best of them, i.e the best ones people can used Out-of-Box. Take a look at Crackerjazz A-7 build, where he used Hasegawa TER from the A-7 box: Maybe accurate in size, but lacking details. He had to add some. Take a look at Aigore A-6E build, where he used Eduard MER: Maybe inaccurate in size, but with lot of details. I've got the Academy F-4: both TER and MER are crude, cruder than Hasegawa ones, less details. So maybe accurate in size, but lacking more details than Hasegawa. Same thing with the revell A-6 ones. I've got the Aerobonus ones: More details than the Eduard. Summary: Details: Aerobonus > Eduard > Hasegawa > Academy and Revell Size accuracy: Academy and Revell > Hasegawa, Eduard, Aerobonus. Now, people must make a choice and needs to make some trade-offs. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dave Roof Posted May 4, 2019 Share Posted May 4, 2019 You're right.....you following model builds trumps my personal experience with the real item. My bad. Continue to use what makes you happy and have a great weekend. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GW8345 Posted May 4, 2019 Share Posted May 4, 2019 I'd like to point out one thing, after you detailed your MER/TER's, how much of that detail can you actually see once you load them? Unless you are going to leave them empty, having the most detailed/accurate MER/TER is pointless IMO because 95% of that detail is going to be covered up by the weapon/store. And I'm with Dave, putting hand to steel trumps following model builds/reading a book/surfing the interwebs any day. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Inquisitor Posted May 4, 2019 Share Posted May 4, 2019 (edited) 14 hours ago, shion said: You missed the point. I'm answering the Topic title question: Best 1/48 MER & TER out there? Answer: Aerobonus. Maybe I shouldn't have quoted you for you to take it personally. Because my answer was only 1% related to yours, to clarify that Aerobonus was part of Aires, since Eli was also confused about Eduard and Eduard Brassin. As for the 99% in the rest of my post it wasn't directed at you. Was simply stating my opinion on why Eduard's piece was too small, nothing related to your own opinion about Aerobonus being the best. Or did I say anything against it or otherwise? Edited May 4, 2019 by Inquisitor Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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