TexasBlues Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 hey... im from the old days... and all we had was enamels... uphill both ways to/from school etc... i am trying acrylics for the 1st time on a less significant piece and they seem to dry DURING painting, very quickly... any way to stall or lengthen the 'open' time of the paint? how is airbrushing them affected? whats a good pressure? good paint:thinner ratio? heck, whats a good thinner? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jbrundt Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 If you think acrylics are fast then you should try lacquer. I switched to acrylics last year and I really like them. Much easier clean up. I personally prefer the quicker drying time because it means i can progress faster on my projects. But to be honest with you I don't see all that great of a difference between their drying times and the drying times of the MM enamels I was using. Flat finishes always dry rather quickly anyway compared to gloss ones. The one thing I have noticed with the acrylics is that touch ups with brush or airbrush blend very nicely and are almost totally unnoticeable. IIRC there are 'retarders' you can add to slow the dry/cure time. Check the local art supply stores. hth Jeff Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Oliver Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 I had a similar experience when I switched to Gunze acrylics a couple years ago. Now I love them! I thin them heavily with rubbing alcohol and distilled water. The water works as a retarder and prevents "dusting" - when the little droplets of paint dry before they hit your model. My ratio for paint - alcohol - water is 1 : 1,5 : 0,5. I just love the fact that they are dry to the touch immediately. That way you don't need to worry about dust particles sticking to your painted surface. For the pressure, I just feel it with my fingers and know when it's right - sorry! :) Oliver Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TexasBlues Posted January 19, 2005 Author Share Posted January 19, 2005 thanks for the advice... i'll print it and put it in my binder of totally useful information... next to the one full of divorce stuff which is totally useLESS information Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Barneydhc82 Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 I'm using Polly Scale and brush painting is a dream...I add about 10-12 drops of Liquitex Acrylic Flow Enhancer to a fresh bottle plus a bit of PS thinners, give it a good shake and brush away...NO brush marks and beautiful even coverage. I use a 1/2" soft flat brush. Barney Quote Link to post Share on other sites
madmike Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 Habu, that is totally unhelpful :lol: Vallejo and Pollyscale are my paints of choice, applied properly with a brush and there are no brush marks. They also airbrush like a dream, thinned with distilled water or tamiya thinner. I use a Tmaiya primer to key the plastic in preparation and never have any problems. Enamels are fine for detail painting but I find I use them less and less now. :) MikeJ Quote Link to post Share on other sites
volzj Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 I love Polyscale acrylics. Use a little Tamiya and MM here and there, but have never looked back at enamels. Don't think I could deal with the odor at this point anyway :) I'm pretty amazed a the results my kids get handbrushing the Polyscale. You almost can't mess up. I've seen my six year old put on a coat that looked way too thick and have it level out and dry really well. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Old Blind Dog Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 I use Polly Scale for almost everything with a little Tamiya and Gunze thrown in here and there. I've been using nothing but acrylics for the past 7 or 8 years and LOVE them! As mentioned above, you can get Polly Scale Airbrush Thinner which (IIRC) helps to work as a retarder. But, as suggested above, the fast drying time is actually more of an advantage than a drawback. Old Blind Dog Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Skull Leader Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 the model master "acryl" line is a wonderful thing. If you're airbrushing, most of them are ready to spray right out of the bottle (only a few shades really need any thinning and not much of it then). The drying time is more of a blessing than a hinderance, add to that the fact that the Model Master color line is VERY extensive (not that other companies are not) and you can't go wrong. Most people use a thinner of some sort for thinning or cleaning up, but warm water works just as well in a pinch. Also if you ever need to strip paint from a model, acrylics come off MUCH easier than enamels. Now having said that, enamels aren't ALL bad. They're much stronger and stand up to abuse better than Acrylics. Which means an enamel paintjob will survive the accidental bump and scrape better than an acrylic job does (although sealing an acrylic paintjob helps). Basically, once it's on, IT'S ON... and it's never meant to come off. Everyone advocates a different kind of paint to suit their modelling style. I still spray a coat of enamel primer on my models before painting them, just because the acrylic paint seems to work really well over an enamel base. But I will almost always (wherever possible) use acrylics for my painting. The short curing duration, and ease of cleanup are big selling points for me. Those that do use thinner to clean it up seem to advocate the ordinary variety laquer thinner as the cleanup chemical of choice. Cheap and sold in large cans at just about any place you can buy paint. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Iwan Winarta Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 My simple answer: keep using enamels.That's what I do ;) 100% agree Tried acrylics a few years ago and got fed up. Dries damn too fast for me. :) Now I switch back to enamels and I am happy cheers Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TexasBlues Posted January 20, 2005 Author Share Posted January 20, 2005 OK... now that i have all this great advice, let me ask a stupid question... polly scale... what IS it...? i hear it all the time... i am currently using tamiya and mm acryls... like i said, i am coming back after a long (20 yr) absence and alot has changed... see critique corner for 1st jet in 20 yrs... i have seen a BRAND called polly scale at my LHS, but VERY few bottles on the rack... they are giving away humbrols and im not sure if they even have grunze... i have also found it really difficult to find a REAL hobby shop... models only... in the Atlanta area... best place i have found is hobbytown ... big-box chain thanks again for all of the advice and info... its very helpful Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TexasBlues Posted January 20, 2005 Author Share Posted January 20, 2005 oh yeah... and what is (IIRC)? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Massimo Moruzzi Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 IIRC = If I Recall Correctly, did you mean this? I've been using enamels for all my "young age" modeling. Then, when I started again as an adult, used enamels again, but recently I've been trying acrylics (Lifecolor) and was very impressed. Now I've been using acrylics more and more... Massimo Quote Link to post Share on other sites
singeri Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 Maybe I'm not doing it right, but has anyone successfully blown Tamiya acrylics through a Paache H external mix airbrush. I'm an enamel guy (for now), and I have tested acrylics a couple of times with weird results. I was thinking the external mix might be the fault of my finishes. Irv Quote Link to post Share on other sites
My_name_1s_MUD Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 i have had great results with tamiya acrylics. it's all i use. easy to clean up and easily thinned. I only have to use a little tamiya thinner to get a nice coat. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Old Blind Dog Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 OK... now that i have all this great advice, let me ask a stupid question...polly scale... what IS it...? i hear it all the time... i am currently using tamiya and mm acryls... like i said, i am coming back after a long (20 yr) absence and alot has changed... see critique corner for 1st jet in 20 yrs... i have seen a BRAND called polly scale at my LHS, but VERY few bottles on the rack... they are giving away humbrols and im not sure if they even have grunze... i have also found it really difficult to find a REAL hobby shop... models only... in the Atlanta area... best place i have found is hobbytown ... big-box chain thanks again for all of the advice and info... its very helpful Hey TexasBlue, Polly Scale is a water-based acrylic paint originally made and sold by the Floquil/PollyS Corporation. It is now manufactured and distributed by the Testors Corporation and can be found at many locations. They make an extensive line of military colors for aircraft and armor as well as a line of railroad colors (many of which happen to be very useful for military models!) You can find the military colors in 1 oz bottles on-line at The Squadron or at Roll Models. The railroad colors (in big 2 oz bottles) can be found at Walthers (model train distributor) and MicroMark. HTH Old Blind Dog Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AlienFrogModeller Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 My simple answer: keep using enamels.That's what I do :lol: 100% agree Tried acrylics a few years ago and got fed up. Dries damn too fast for me. :lol: Now I switch back to enamels and I am happy cheers :P Use distilled water and the "drying" time is longer, using alcohol or specified thinner for acrylics will decrease "drying" time". Cheers Quote Link to post Share on other sites
volzj Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 Use distilled water and the "drying" time is longer, using alcohol or specified thinner for acrylics will decrease "drying" time".Cheers That's why I mix my own airbrush thinner of half alcohol, half distilled water. Works great with Polyscale colors. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AlienFrogModeller Posted January 21, 2005 Share Posted January 21, 2005 Use distilled water and the "drying" time is longer, using alcohol or specified thinner for acrylics will decrease "drying" time". Cheers That's why I mix my own airbrush thinner of half alcohol, half distilled water. Works great with Polyscale colors. Kewl, never tried that...I will now. Cheers Quote Link to post Share on other sites
The Keeper Posted January 21, 2005 Share Posted January 21, 2005 Habu, that was funny I prefer enamels but use acrylics when the project requires it. Windshield washing fluid makes a great thinner. I reccommend a clean airbrush and some flo aid/retarder to keep things moving along. hth Quote Link to post Share on other sites
amflores Posted February 3, 2005 Share Posted February 3, 2005 I still use enamels for the base coat. If fumes were not so harmful to your health, if cleaning not so messy; if paint removal were easy in case something goes wrong, I would RATHER USE ENAMELS instead of acrylics. Acrylics are not harmful, cleaning and paint removal are much easier. If something goes wrong I simply ditch the kit in water mixed with a liquid detergent or a washing powder, for half hour, and then I easily remove he paint with a soft brush (the enamel base coat is preserved) However, what drives me mad with acrylics is the sandpaper looks I get most of the time. I only use Tamiya acrylics and its X-20A thinner. If I add distilled water to the X-20A thinner, as a retardant, would this help prevent "dusting - when the little droplets of paint dry before they hit your model." ? Flores Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Shawn C. Posted February 3, 2005 Share Posted February 3, 2005 Thank you TexasBlue for posting this topic as it has generated some great info for all! I am in the process of switching to acrylics (Pollyscale) but am finding the drying time a real problem as it clogs my AB. So, I'm with ya! I'm going to stick it out and just learn the hard way as I'm sick of dealing with harsh solvents. A lot of folks mentioned an acrylic flow medium or retarder. I have used Liquitex Brand Acrylic Gel Medium in the past quite a bit for doing art projects with acrylics and I had wondered if this might be a good product to use. My big concern is that it is a very thick material and I did not know if it would mix well with the paint. That coupled with the fact that I don't have any right now and I'd hate to cough up $10 for an experiment! I also like the idea (sorry, forgot who) of simply adding a bit of the flow enhancer directly to the bottles! Brilliant! Anyway if someone can suggest a good brand that can be found in the US I sure would appreciate it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Shawn C. Posted February 3, 2005 Share Posted February 3, 2005 TexasBlue: By the way, Polly Scale does have a really large selection of paints to choose from and the aforementioned railroad colors are pretty cool as well. they have colors like "steam power black" and other really cool permutations of the basic stuff that we see for plastic kits. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Barneydhc82 Posted February 3, 2005 Share Posted February 3, 2005 Shaun" Do not use the acrylic gel....use Liquitex Acrylic Flow Aid Barney Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TexasBlues Posted February 3, 2005 Author Share Posted February 3, 2005 i agree with barney... i use the liquitex flow-aid and the retarder also by liquitex... i follow the mfrs recommendations and put it right into the bottle... so far (aside from thinning one too much) i have had excellent results... and adding it to the bottles keeps the new consistency the same... works great for brushing and the 'open' time is increased the liquitex is about $7 i think good luck! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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