New R-27 sets 1/48

[flanker]

New R-27 sets 1/48

My friend from Estonia asked me to post this topic

He ask:

-is there any demand of 1/48 scale 100%

right missiles, and also what will be your opinion

fair price for them. With this details (on the photos is master-

model details) can construct 4 different type R-27.-

I think that this master looks fantastic what do you think?

Dont know about fair price..what do you think?

photos will be posted by Zmey (i still refuse to learn how to post them:)

[Michiel]

That would be great. Kazan is producing beautiful missiles however they are hard to get and to my opnion very expensive.

Regards Michiel.

[Zmey Smirnoff]

ok.... here goes whatever i got on R-27.... HTH

[flanker]

I dint send you this..something happened with my email (in attach was photos of masters)

Edited September 19, 2006 by flanker

[Zmey Smirnoff]

good grief....

[flanker]

Zmey i will send you photos agian on

zmeysmirnoff(et)yahoo.com

Edited September 19, 2006 by flanker

[dragan_mig31]

her u are the pics upoloaded flanker.

[Andrew D. the Jolly Rogers guy]

Wow! Nice start!

[haneto]

So nice!

But why not 1/72 or 1/32?

We still don't have perfect 1/48 Fulcrum and Flanker......

[RedStar]

her u are the pics upoloaded flanker.

Holy Cow those are great!!!! I would happily buy them - I think they are badly needed, along with better R-73s (the SOL have become hard to get).

They are also badly needed in 1/32 - so once they're done in 1/48, please go for 1/32!

The Kazan sets are out there, and are decent, but are setup to version specific (they should come in packs of two), and something about the fins just do not look right to me.

Let me know how I can help!

Paul

[OKB Krasnaya Zvezda]

Ok now ME WANTS...BADLY!!

if we can get a set like that for the 3 scales count me in!

now, it would be nice to have some A/G weapons too not only for the Su-27, you know, there are some models out there that need some weapons to hang.

[flanker]

Thanks Dragan(now we can go to our ASF forum and disscus more?)

My friend from Estonia is not member of ARC and he asked me to help

him.

Sorry people i cant tell you more informations but i will

send all your questions to author of this sets and hope

that he will answer to you.

What do you think about fair price?

Btw i have almost all KAZAN sets inculdig R-27s(John is also my frined,i have great

friends ,dont i ?:-) And his sets are very nice too and i have ordered

new missliles Kh-31 .....

I am not expert for missiless so i cant say wich R-27 are more accurate

but probably there are people who can say more ...

P.S.

Also thanks to Zmey now we have drawings too!I dint asked for them but

thank you very much this can help to every russian aircraft modeller:)

[thetoe17]

Holy crap, those look great! Would they be in metal or resin though...I would think metal would get a bit expensive and could be a little heavy for plastic pylons. But still, I'm impressed. I'd definitely be interested. If he could throw together some R-77s as well, he's my hero.

[David Walker]

Those masters are amazing looking. Please keep us updated on the progress of this project.

[MoFo]

her u are the pics upoloaded flanker.

Those look reminiscent of the Model Point missiles. And if they're screw-together metal, I'd imagine they'd be VERY pricey, for a set of missiles. My opinion? If he can beat Kazan's price point by a decent amount, they'll sell well. If they're as much as, or more spendy than the Kazan missiles, they won't sell very well - a few ******** Russian enthusiasts and some people desperate for missiles and unable to find any of the alternatives will buy them, but that's about it.

[RedStar]

Those look reminiscent of the Model Point missiles. And if they're screw-together metal, I'd imagine they'd be VERY pricey, for a set of missiles. My opinion? If he can beat Kazan's price point by a decent amount, they'll sell well. If they're as much as, or more spendy than the Kazan missiles, they won't sell very well - a few ******** Russian enthusiasts and some people desperate for missiles and unable to find any of the alternatives will buy them, but that's about it.

I would guess that those are meant to be patterns for a resin cast set, where the parts can be screwed together to make one of four versions, and then the body cast as one piece.

I have the Kazan sets, and like them very much, John is a great guy, but this set would be much more detailed, and appear to be more accurate. There is something about the shape of the fins in the Kazan set that just does not look right to me - although I have never been able to find a set of plans that have the fins in planform vs. the 45 degree view as is available in this thread.

So PUH-LEEZE get these to market, and then get the 1/32 set on the way!

Paul

[Zmey Smirnoff]

Masters look great! The surface detail on the fins is very promising. So, no one answered the main question asked by Flanker - whats is the fair price? I'm no marketing expert, but IMO, single missiles in ziplock baggies wont attract all potential customers.

Here is what I think: the best way to sell these missiles would be to offer a boxed set of ... lets say... FOUR pieces of EACH R-27 modifications.

4 T

4 ET

4 R

4 ER

and so on ... Set would have to have box, decals, color photos, instructions. Instructions would not only outline the decals and markings but should take the guess work out of properly arming your plane (ER's go on nacelles not wingtips) Plus, the author may want to think about proper pylons and launching rails. For a comprehensive, well packaged set I would be willing to pay $40-50

opinions?

[thetoe17]

I like Zmey's suggestion...you could also sell each type in sets of 4 for $10-15. As a consumer, I say the cheaper the better, but for all the hard work put in, its fully reasonable to want to turn a little profit! tell your friend to keep up the good work, and encourage him to make some more...like I said, I'd like to see some R-77's too.

If your friend is really ambititious, in 1/48, there's might be a market for good A2G weapons, for those of us who want to build more recent demonstrator and export versions of the Su-27. Kh-31's, Kh-25's, Kh-59's, etc...

But in the meantime, let us know what he decides for prices, it seems he'd have some customers...maybe even try contacting Linden Hill or something and see if they're interested, this would be right up their alley.

[RedStar]

The pricing that has been discussed so far has been too high, Kazan currently sells EIGHT R-27s for $40, they do include pylons and decals, so for the equivalent set of four, they should be $20.

There are other products out there that are similar, some more expensive, some less.

The key here is pricing low enough to make profit, but high enough to cover all the costs involved.

Ideally, these should be sold in sets of two by type, and hopefully around $8 - $10 each - you'll probably have to sell a larger number in order to maintain that pricepoint.

The reason why I say TWO of each, as that most loadouts tend to include two of each type, that way you can mix and match what type of load out best suits the aircraft - whether MiG-29 or otherwise. That's actually one of the dings against the setup for the Kazan R-27s - the Su-27 set includes eight missiles, all of the long types, and typically, you'd only hang six on the aircraft, with four of those six being the normal types. So you'd have to buy both sets to get a normal load out and end up with SIX extra missiles after you were done. Of course, if you build four Su-27s, then it works out O.K.

I have sent some information off the board that will hopefully get to the pattern maker, as I've offered any of my expertise and contacts (I don't own Victory Models anymore, but I do still keep up with most of my industry friends) in an effort to get these to market for the RIGHT price.

The quality of pattern work is amazing, hopefully myself or someone can help get these to market, and soon!

And then, more importantly, get him to work on more patterns.

Best Regards,

Paul

[foxmulder_ms]

Here is what I think: the best way to sell these missiles would be to offer a boxed set of ... lets say... FOUR pieces of EACH R-27 modifications.

4 T

4 ET

4 R

4 ER

Plus, the author may want to think about proper pylons and launching rails. For a comprehensive, well packaged set I would be willing to pay $40-50

opinions?

Here, what you meant 16 missiles together with pylons for 40-50$?

Sorry, it is my english:)

And about the marketting. Probably, I wont buy a box which has only missiles. You need to think selling these missiles together with pylons.

[Zmey Smirnoff]

16 sounds right. For a ******** Russian/Soviet builder accurate spare missiles are as good as the money in the bank. And the occasional red star fan may opt to use OOB ones or look for spares on the open market. I believe, and that's just my opinion, that target audience for that product is a rare and endangered free-roaming die-hard maniac. And those specimens need lots of missiles. (Maybe even to retrofit previously built models). I'm not opposed to different configurations of missiles. I just dont want to see zip-lock baggies w/o decals, instructions or proper packaging. Actually if the author of the master-molds would go as far as to create accurate R-73 and R-60, a "MiG-29" and a "Su-27" sets would be ideal.

Regards

Z.S.

[RedStar]

Good R-60s are already available from TallyHo!.

I understand your point about the design for the set, but you're adding pretty major expense when you package things up on more than a header card and zip loc bag.

What you're describing would sell to the manic Russian fan - and that's a decent start, but in order to make these desirable to the largest audience possible, you'd cut as much of the expense out as possible, stick in a small decal, and sell the whole thing on a 6" tall, 3" wide card in a ziploc bag.

Of course to get those decals you have to find somebody that can make correct and accurate R-27 stencils!

Let's get the R-73 next.

From there a set with the pylons for the Su-27, where you had a proper 10 missile setup, a corrected set of pylons and missile rails, stencils, etc. would be great, but would likely sell for more than the kit itself in terms of price. And, again, while some may go for it (me), that's the kind of price that a lot of folks would balk at.

[ijozic]

I'd like to suggest R-77 with MiG-29 pylons for MiG-29S. Sol kit is impossible to find.

[flanker]

-Kh-31's, Kh-25's, Kh-59's, etc...-

See Linden Hill KAZAN produce some very nice A/G weapon (i have in hands some

of theese)and have ordered more.

About my friend from Estonia he also started work on other types

of soviet/russian air to air missiless.

If he send me photos again i will post them here.Also i will recive first

resin exsamples of his R-27s so i will write you my impressions.

Btw Mr Jozic you are form Croatia?Vrsa had some SOL R-77 call him

maybe he can help you if you cant wait for new ones.

[ijozic]

Btw Mr Jozic you are form Croatia?Vrsa had some SOL R-77 call him

maybe he can help you if you cant wait for new ones.

Thanks for the tip, I'll send him a PM and see.