Can you add thinner to a bottle of acrylic paint ..

[Rob de Bie]

I am a traditional enamel paint user, but I want to learn to use acrylics too. I tried some Vallejo Model Air, and was pleasently surprised by the ease of use: drip it into the airbrush paint cup, and go! Drying times are amazing too. Adhesion and scratch resistance are problem areas however.

Recently I bought an Akan set for Vietnam camouflage, to get more experience with various acrylic paint brands. I noted that these paints were a little thicker than Vallejo Model Air, and viscosity differed between the different colors. I would like to thin them a bit, preferably in the bottle, so I don't need to mix before loading it into the airbrush.

With enamels, it's a big no-no to add thinner to the bottle, the paint will go bad in days. But maybe acrylics are different? And what to use? The brand's own thinner, or maybe isopropyl alcohol?

Rob

Edited October 7, 2015 by Rob de Bie

[Triarius]

It's an even bigger "No, No, NO, NO!" with acrylic paints—unless yo plan to use the whole bottle fairly soon, as in "now."

Edited October 7, 2015 by Triarius

[Chris L]

It's an even bigger "No, No, NO, NO!" with acrylic paints—unless yo plan to use the whole bottle fairly soon, as in "now."

No only do not add thinner to the bottle but do not think that because it's labeled Acrylic it's compatible with other brands . Mix a drop of each first and see if it mixes or turns to mud.

Cheers, christian

[jinmmydel]

I don't know about thinning acrylic in the bottle but the enamel no no thing is hogwash. I don't thin them in the bottle per se but I've dumped thinned (with lacquer mind you) paint back in pots and not once had a problem.

I've done the same with Tamiya and Mr Hobby (again thinned with lacquer)

[galileo1]

I've added Mr. Color Leveling thinner to a bottle of Mr. Hobby Aqueous (acrylic) and the paint is still good as it ever was. I've seen no side issues in the month or so the thinner had been added. I do this all the time when Mr. Surfacer 500 gets a little too thick for my taste. No adverse effects whatsoever.

Rob

Edited October 7, 2015 by galileo1

[Janissary]

"Can you add thinner to a bottle of acrylic paint .. .. without the paint going bad?"

I think it is always best to thin your paints in the airbrush. That said, here are my experiences in the last 9 years:

- When using Tamiya or Gunze acrylics (and I routinely create mixes of these in the airbrush), I use Tamiya X20A as thinner. Often times, I dump the unused portion of the paint back into the bottle. I have been doing this for the last 6-7 years. I never had a problem with the bottle of paint going bad. Hence, I tend to disagree with Triarius' assertions. In my experience, which I don't think is limited, the paints don't go bad when thinned paints are added back into the bottle. I say this only for Tamiya/Gunze acrylic paints thinned with X20A. I am compelled to say this because Triarius makes it sound like paints not going bad is an exception, and in general it is a bad idea to do it. I can confidently say this is not the case within the boundaries I laid out.

- For nearly empty Tamiya or Gunze paint bottles, I routinely add Tamiya X20A to use up all the paint. Many times, what I use for my application is much less than what I end up creating in the bottle, so the bottle sits around for months sometimes. I never had any problems reusing that bottle of thinned paint. Your milage may vary with different acrylic brands.

- Testors/Model master enamels have been a whole different story. I try to keep them as pure as possible. To exemplify, I use a toothpick to transfer paint from the bottle into the airbrush that contains enamel thinner. Once I get the paint into the airbrush and stir it, I always clean the toothpick clean before dipping it into the paint again. I have seen too many enamel paints go bad due to impurities; in all cases the paint seems to gel up and become completely unusable. I have found the only way to combat this problem is to keep Testors/MM paints as pure as possible. My experience with these paints have been the same with lacquer thinner also.

[Crazy Snap Captain]

I do exactly as Janissary does and have also never had any problems. I once wanted to make my own flesh colour and mixed both Tamiya and Gunze colours to get my desired hue. Initially I only needed a little bit but with all the trial and error mixing I ended up with a fair bit. I thinned it our with Tamiya X-20A and left it in a Gunze bottle. I used it again around a year later. The pigments had all settled and the thinner was lying on top. I mixed it and used the paint with no issue at all. The mixture is now over three years old and it still works fine. I have over 10 pre thinned custom mixes both exclusively Tamiya, Gunze and mixes of both paints and they all work great whether I brush paint or air brush.

In regards to the water based acrylics like Vallejo, LifeColour and Akan I can't say for sure. I have only used a pre thinned LifeColor paint and that was only over a one week timeframe. Over that period it was ok, but can't vouch for anything longer.

My tip, use Tamiya and Gunze. Can't go wrong. But that's just my experience. I'm certainly no chemist.

[davevw]

I do exactly as Janissary does and have also never had any problems. I once wanted to make my own flesh colour and mixed both Tamiya and Gunze colours to get my desired hue. Initially I only needed a little bit but with all the trial and error mixing I ended up with a fair bit. I thinned it our with Tamiya X-20A and left it in a Gunze bottle. I used it again around a year later. The pigments had all settled and the thinner was lying on top. I mixed it and used the paint with no issue at all. The mixture is now over three years old and it still works fine. I have over 10 pre thinned custom mixes both exclusively Tamiya, Gunze and mixes of both paints and they all work great whether I brush paint or air brush.

In regards to the water based acrylics like Vallejo, LifeColour and Akan I can't say for sure. I have only used a pre thinned LifeColor paint and that was only over a one week timeframe. Over that period it was ok, but can't vouch for anything longer.

My tip, use Tamiya and Gunze. Can't go wrong. But that's just my experience. I'm certainly no chemist.

I agree w/ the above two statements, i pour my unused paint back, and if the paint is too thick in the bottle I add thinner and stir. I have never had a problem, occasionally ill get some large chunks in old paint that won't thin down and clog the airbrush, so I just scoop them out w/ my tooth pick.

[jinmmydel]

Hmm. I've got dozens of bottles of MM enamel that I've dumped thinned (with Mr. Leveling Thinner) paint back into and haven't had an issue at all...yet at least. I've been doing it the better part of three years.

As to thinning with lacquer thinner? No, I do not do it because it's "easier" I do it because it makes the paint much more workable especially at low pressure with delicate lines. I'm not the only person doing it either. It's a bit of a "hidden secret" that a lot of "masters" are doing. The idea you can't thin enamel with lacquer thinner is more hogwash.

[Janissary]

Hmm. I've got dozens of bottles of MM enamel that I've dumped thinned (with Mr. Leveling Thinner) paint back into and haven't had an issue at all...yet at least. I've been doing it the better part of three years.

As to thinning with lacquer thinner? No, I do not do it because it's "easier" I do it because it makes the paint much more workable especially at low pressure with delicate lines. I'm not the only person doing it either. It's a bit of a "hidden secret" that a lot of "masters" are doing. The idea you can't thin enamel with lacquer thinner is more hogwash.

I brought up the issue of not having success with MM enamels, so I suppose this was in response to my comments. I never tried thinning MM enamels with Mr. Levelling thinner, even though I got the latter. Sounds like with that thinner, the problem can be circumvented, I've got to try it.

My experience with MM enamel paint thinning has been as follows:

- Store mineral spirits: Works ok for thinning, not great but alright. Dumping back the excess into the bottle --> paint goes bad (gels up) in a few months.

- Store lacquer thinner: Works ok for some MM enamels. But for some others (MM enamel flat black most notoriously), it caused the paint to form into small particulates clogging the airbrush. I had the same thing happen with flat olive drab a few months ago. I have given up on store brand lacquer thinner for MM enamels.

- Testors enamel thinner: Works great for thinning the paint. Seeing that it is excellent in thinning the paint, I dumped some excess into paint bottle --> paint went bad. So, I only use this thinner for thinning the paint in the airbrush, but do not recycle the unused paint.

As I said, I never tried Mr. Levelling thinner. I suppose Tamiya lacquer thinner would work about the same. It will be a pleasant discovery if they work well with MM enamels, and more over if the paint remains usable after paint recycling. I am not discounting your experience, I am saying I never tried it so I shall give it a try,

Edited October 8, 2015 by Janissary

[jinmmydel]

I brought up the issue of not having success with MM enamels, so I suppose this was in response to my comments. I never tried thinning MM enamels with Mr. Levelling thinner, even though I got the latter. Sounds like with that thinner, the problem can be circumvented, I've got to try it.

My experience with MM enamel paint thinning has been as follows:

- Store mineral spirits: Works ok for thinning, not great but alright. Dumping back the excess into the bottle --> paint goes bad (gels up) in a few months.

- Store lacquer thinner: Works ok for some MM enamels. But for some others (MM enamel flat black most notoriously), it caused the paint to form into small particulates clogging the airbrush. I had the same thing happen with flat olive drab a few months ago. I have given up on store brand lacquer thinner for MM enamels.

- Testors enamel thinner: Works great for thinning the paint. Seeing that it is excellent in thinning the paint, I dumped some excess into paint bottle --> paint went bad. So, I only use this thinner for thinning the paint in the airbrush, but do not recycle the unused paint.

As I said, I never tried Mr. Levelling thinner. I suppose Tamiya lacquer thinner would work about the same. It will be a pleasant discovery if they work well with MM enamels, and more over if the paint remains usable after paint recycling. I am not discounting your experience, I am saying I never tried it so I shall give it a try,

I never say that I don't believe someone when they say they've had issues with something like that. I know you have no reason to lie about it as if you have some kind of agenda. I hate when someone asks about a tool or technique and I tell them my experience and am told "well you don't know what you're doing" etc.

In fact there WERE comments like that above. But they were apparently moderated. It was suggested I thin with lacquer because it's cheap and easy...when in fact I picked it up from legit "pros" because it's superior.

So no, I wasn't directing my comments at you...at least not in an "I don't believe you way."

I do believe you. I just haven't experienced it myself. Of course, I'm not using hardware store lacquer...I use it to clean but not thin. In my experience it's actually much hotter. If you wipe plastic with it straight it will craze...but Mr. Leveling won't.

I did once try hardware store paint thinner and that was disastrous.

What I like about lacquer thinner in MM enamel is that it pushes the paint much further than the traditional MM thinner. That is, I can do much more delicate work. The second benefit is the enamel dries (not necessarily cures) much faster. I can touch an enamel coat in a matter of minutes after painting without issue. With regular enamel thinner it takes much longer. Also, the smell of the paint is much less obtrusive while it dries. (Not the paint per se it's the smell of the thinner evaporating out).

[Janissary]

Sounds good, thanks for the clarification, I thought you had misunderstood me (i.e., in my first post I had not mentioned I only used hardware store lacquer, so Mr. Levelling thinner is not something I had tried), so thought I would clarify that. We seem to be on the same page.

What I like about lacquer thinner in MM enamel is that it pushes the paint much further than the traditional MM thinner. That is, I can do much more delicate work.

This would be an exciting experiment. I like the fine airbrush I can pull off with Tamiya and Gunze, but MM enamels have always frustrated me. If delicate work can be done with this approach, that will open up a whole new set of color possibilities for me during weathering.

[Janissary]

Btw, the original poster's inquiry was about acrylics so I apologize for taking the thread in a different direction.

[jinmmydel]

Sounds good, thanks for the clarification, I thought you had misunderstood me (i.e., in my first post I had not mentioned I only used hardware store lacquer, so Mr. Levelling thinner is not something I had tried), so thought I would clarify that. We seem to be on the same page.

This would be an exciting experiment. I like the fine airbrush I can pull off with Tamiya and Gunze, but MM enamels have always frustrated me. If delicate work can be done with this approach, that will open up a whole new set of color possibilities for me during weathering.

Well, now that all the talk of thinning MM enamels is done...I'll add this: I don't like them.

About two years ago our second child forced me out of my mancave and into the garage (until we moved to a larger house). At that time I said "yay I can try enamel now" because I had no venting in the spare bedroom. I did try MM enamels, and I loved them...much more than any acrylic I was using...I began to loathe acrylics because they wouldn't work how I wanted; enamels did

But then I decided to try Mr. Color, and well, now I feel the same about MM enamel. I'm slowly discontinuing use of them. I can find just about any color I need in the Mr. Color range, and I'll gladly mix the rest to use them if at all possible. As better as MM is than acrylics, Mr. Color is 10x that than MM in my opinion. There's pretty much nothing I can't do with Mr. Color and my .15mm Evolution. The MM can go a long ways but it tends to loose performance for me a far bit shorter than Mr. Color (In terms of how thin and "small" it can go).

[galileo1]

Man, all this talk about Mr. Color I feel like I should try it.

Rob

[Rob de Bie]

Thank you all that responded. Experiences seem to in all directions, which is maybe to be expected with different paint chemistries and different thinners.

I decided to experiment a bit, and the results were interesting. I only had Revell Aqua Color Mix and Vallejo Airbrush Thinner (no Akan thinner unfortunately), and made 1:1 mixes:

- Revell Aqua Color Mix made the Akan paint flock almost immediately, so that was easy

- Vallejo Airbrush Thinner mixed well with the Akan paint, and I left the mix in a glass bottle to see how it behaves over the next few days.

Maybe I should explain why I want to thin the paint in the bottle instead of in the airbrush:

When I tried Vallejo Model Air for the first time, I was amazed at the ease of use: just pour paint from the plastic bottle in the gravity feed cup, and blast away. A *huge* difference with my normal Humbrol enamel procedure: transfer X milliliters with a syringe, clean the syringe with solvent, add X milliliters of one or two thinner components measured with a dropper, mix with a piece of sprue, and then I'm ready to paint.

If I need to thin the acrylic paint first, that can't be done in airbrush, since I can't measure properly, and I cannot mix properly in the gravity feed cup, especially in the bottom. It would be the same as with the enamel, a lot of work. So if it's possible to make the paint airbrush-ready, I'm all for it.

Rob

[Thommo]

If I need to thin the acrylic paint first, that can't be done in airbrush, since I can't measure properly, and I cannot mix properly in the gravity feed cup, especially in the bottom. It would be the same as with the enamel, a lot of work. So if it's possible to make the paint airbrush-ready, I'm all for it.

Rob

I actually thin/mix both acrylic and non-acrylic paints in the paint cup of my Iwata HP-CP. I use a dropper to put some thinner in the cup, then using a piece of wooden skewer, add drops of paint to the thinner an stir it in until I think the consistency is about right. I tip the paint cup right on its side to try and ensure any thinner right at the bottom of the cup gets mixed with the paint. My method of getting the consistency about right is to drag some of the paint mix up the side of the paint cup to see how thick it is, and how it runs back down into the cup.

Not a very accurate or scientific approach, but it seems to work OK. If I think the paint is too thin/thick I adjust the mix.

I've been doing it like this ever since I got an AB. Was easier in the Aztek because there was no needle running through the bottom of the side-feed cup like in the top-feed Iwata cup - but then Iwata is such a superior AB, it is a moot point.

[GSimmon]

Hi guys,

What I heard is that is is always the best way to thin your colour and please use the brand :)