Spitfire88 Posted October 5, 2009 Share Posted October 5, 2009 I hope this is the right area to post this question. I am new to WWII aircraft modelling and I am looking for paint feedback. I really like the MM Series II paints as they have all the correct RAF and German paint codes and colors. Does anyone have any feedback on using these paints? I know some are gloss, some are semi-gloss and some are flat. I will mostly be building WWII RAF and German aircraft. I really like Tamiya but they do not make many RAF and German colors. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
crazydon Posted October 5, 2009 Share Posted October 5, 2009 On the RLM line the colors RLM 70 and 71 are very weak, nowhere near being correct. I also think their RLM 79 is too dark. For RLM 71 try the Floquil Railroad lines "Pullman Green", its a dead on match and what I use myself. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
caiotfjr Posted October 6, 2009 Share Posted October 6, 2009 I am new to WWII aircraft modelling and I am looking for paint feedback If you are new in this field, perhaps you might consider switching to acrylics. If that is the case: 1) STAY AWAY from MM Acryl! 2) Tamiya don't provide the exact names to RAF and German colours, but some of its colours are very precise, like XF-21 Sky 3) Gunze's aqueous acrylics have a very extensive selection of RAF and German colours. The paints are very similar to Tamiya's, to the point you can mix them. And it's very easy and cheap to buy them from Lucky Models or Hobby Link, despite being harder to find in US 4) Xtracrylics are renowed for being very accurate and easy to be used Aqueous acrylics are safer, their pigments are grounded finner, they cover better. The only downside is their drying time, too short for some people. For me, they are perfect Quote Link to post Share on other sites
PNW_Modeler Posted October 6, 2009 Share Posted October 6, 2009 1) STAY AWAY from MM Acryl! Care to elaborate? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Spitfire88 Posted October 6, 2009 Author Share Posted October 6, 2009 The only paints available to me are Testors Model Master, Tamiya and Gunze but my hobby store has most Gunze colors out of stock all the time. I would love to use Tamiya and Gunze but I hate mixing colors like the Tamiya kit instructions advise to do. I don't understand with Tamiya making all these kits like (Spitfire, Beaufighters, FW190, BF109) why the would not release new colors in their paint range for these types of aircraft. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
caiotfjr Posted October 6, 2009 Share Posted October 6, 2009 The only paints available to me are Testors Model Master, Tamiya and Gunze but my hobby store has most Gunze colors out of stock all the time. I would love to use Tamiya and Gunze but I hate mixing colors like the Tamiya kit instructions advise to do. I don't understand with Tamiya making all these kits like (Spitfire, Beaufighters, FW190, BF109) why the would not release new colors in their paint range for these types of aircraft. I really understand your situation. I gave up buying paints at LHS, because of supply issues. Today, I shop all my paints over the web, mostly at Red Frog Hobbies and Lucky Models. Well, Tamiya is...humm, Tamiya. I understand your frustation. To add insult to injury, they released some of these colours in spray cans. I've already used some of them to paint F-1 cars and they are high quality products. The problem is, unlike you are doing a solid one colour job, it's like using an 88 gun (a 12 gauge shotgun is too small for comparison) to kill a fly. Or you could experience the chore of decanting the paint in a jar and then airbrush it. I really can't comment too much about RLM colours, after visiting a killing camp (Auschwitz) when I was 18, I promised myself to not model anything with a swastika. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jester292 Posted October 6, 2009 Share Posted October 6, 2009 (edited) Care to elaborate? Paul I have to agree with your question. I use both MM enamels and Acrylics. Both have their benifits and downfalls, but I do love the MM line. I would encourage others to give them a try if they are available. Aaron Edited October 6, 2009 by jester292 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
caiotfjr Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 Paul I have to agree with your question. I use both MM enamels and Acrylics. Both have their benifits and downfalls, but I do love the MM line. I would encourage others to give them a try if they are available.Aaron May be only me, but I truly hate MM. Their enamels are too thick, their pigments too coarse, they never brush or airbrush nicely as Humbrol (and I mean the "new" crappy Chinese formula). Their varnishes yellow with time, meaning their formula is somewhat 20 years behind their competitors. Could it be worse? Yes, it could, they market a coloured concotion as an acrylic paint. The same coarse pigments, only pretending to be water soluble, wich it isn't. Their own thinner is uncapable of dissolving it. And you can't mask a cured surface even with Tamiya masking tape, wich means it can't be masked at all... Now, I get that MM is widely available and cheap in North America, meaning that in that part of the world people are used to MM perks and vices. However people in the rest of the world aren't... Sorry for the rant... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Gustavo Rocha Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 I agree with Jester. Even though I don't like using acrylics for my modeling projects (with the exception of painting small parts), I do love Model Master's enamels. For me they are perfect!! Alright, you can't airbrush them straight from the bottle, but if you thin them correctly they spray and cover marvelously. Contrary to my countryman, MM pigments don't seem too coarse to me. I also use Humbrol enamels and I like them very much too, but I've been gradually buying more MM colors to replace my emptying Humbrol cans. I think that it's more of a personal preference than anything else. Cheers, Gustavo. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
toadwbg Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 Paul I have to agree with your question. I use both MM enamels and Acrylics. Both have their benifits and downfalls, but I do love the MM line. I would encourage others to give them a try if they are available.Aaron I've never been able to "Master" airbrushing MM Acrylics. It has been a while since I tried them however and my general airbrushing acrylics skills have improved (I do a lot of Tamiya, which I love). So- any tips or tricks to airbrushing MM Acrylics? Last I recall they were a bit of yogert consistancy out of the bottle and didn't adhere to plastic well. I do have their airbrush thinner sitting around. Do you reccomend priming before airbrushing these? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
PNW_Modeler Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 Hmmmm....never had any issues airbrushing with MM acrylics. Although....I have experience the adhesion problem toad mentioned. I find the MM acryl adheres much better to a coat of primer. In fact, I have never had any issues with paint lifting over primer. On the other hand, I have a terrible time with Tamiya acrylics. I find they are way too "fragile" for lack of a better term. They come off way too easy. I have removed entire areas painted with Tamiya acrylics simply by brushing Future over it. Toad.....as far as tips for spraying MM acrylic. I spray directly from the bottle...no thinner, no water, nothing but paint. I give it a good shake. If there is any sediment on the bottom of the bottle, I give it a really good stir and mix it all up. Then pour right into the cup and spray. I am spraying with a Paasche H, and use anywhere from 25 to 30 PSI. Works like a charm everytime. Which the exception of the Monogram F-4 I painted by hand, everything on my shelves was airbrushed using MM acrylics right out of the bottle Quote Link to post Share on other sites
caiotfjr Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 Hmmmm....never had any issues airbrushing with MM acrylics. Although....I have experience the adhesion problem toad mentioned. I find the MM acryl adheres much better to a coat of primer. In fact, I have never had any issues with paint lifting over primer.On the other hand, I have a terrible time with Tamiya acrylics. I find they are way too "fragile" for lack of a better term. They come off way too easy. I have removed entire areas painted with Tamiya acrylics simply by brushing Future over it. Toad.....as far as tips for spraying MM acrylic. I spray directly from the bottle...no thinner, no water, nothing but paint. I give it a good shake. If there is any sediment on the bottom of the bottle, I give it a really good stir and mix it all up. Then pour right into the cup and spray. I am spraying with a Paasche H, and use anywhere from 25 to 30 PSI. Works like a charm everytime. Which the exception of the Monogram F-4 I painted by hand, everything on my shelves was airbrushed using MM acrylics right out of the bottle Paul: Perhaps I was too harsh in my comments about MM paints. I simply don't like them (enamels or acrylics) I've already used a lot of brands (these days I tend to stick to Tamiya, Gunze Aqueous and Humbrol). Heck, I can say I'm the only person I know to have used Revell acrylics (not the best but not the worst). What works for one, may not work for others. Just because Vallejo branded their paint as "Vynilic", I'm afraid to use their paint, no matter everyone speaking wonders about it. Being used to Microscale system, I was very cautious to use GS decal solvents. After apllying some Tamiya decals with it, I thought they were the best thing ever, until destroying an Aeromaster decal... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Spitfire88 Posted October 7, 2009 Author Share Posted October 7, 2009 It seems in the Model Master Series II enamal paint line that there is every RLM paint color even RLM21 White but I just noticed there is one missing, they stop at RLM 83 but where is RLM84 Sky Green? They do not offer this color and it was used on FW190-D9 I believe? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
LDSModeller Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 I wish we could still get MM paints (Enamels/Arylics) here in New Zealand. I have some that I have carefully hoarded when we could buy them, for those special models that require them, as Humbrol or Tamiya (at that time) did not make them. I have had no trouble with either enamel/acrylic, the acrylic took a couple of tries to get the thinning down, but sprayed on wonderfully once I did. We cannot import them personally, as the postal system here will not carry that kind of liquid You can find the odd model store that has a small stock left but nothing to write home about. Regards Alan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jay Chladek Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 Concerning the MM Acrylics, the main problems I've had with them are related to using MM Acrylic thinner as it just makes the stuff runny and the resulting thinned paint doesn't bind with the primered surface too well as tape pulled it off! Last time I used them, I tried thinning them with Tamiya Acrylic thinner instead and it worked MUCH better. The stuff laid down as advertised, wasn't runny and tape didn't pull the paint off when I masked over it. As such, any time I use MM Acrylics from now on, Tamiya thinner is what I use to thin them as it does the trick. Concerning the enamels, I've never had a problem with the paints being too coarse as they thin as advertised for airbrush use. Only Model Master color I tend to avoid these days is Flat Black (in the MM1 line) as they did something to the formula as although it is dark, it doesn't dry dead flat anymore and in my experience tends to stay tacky. The problem doesn't seem to be with a specific paint batch either in my experience. MM2 Interior Black by comparison is a much better color formulation (and for normal flat black, I turn to either Floquil Engine Black or Tamiya XF-1 Flat Black). There may continue to be a running debate about some of the colors, but overall IMHO the Model Master 2 line is a good paint line IMHO and I've used many of their Enamel colors with excellent results. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BOC262 Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 ... Concerning the enamels, I've never had a problem with the paints being too coarse as they thin as advertised for airbrush use. Only Model Master color I tend to avoid these days is Flat Black (in the MM1 line) as they did something to the formula as although it is dark, it doesn't dry dead flat anymore and in my experience tends to stay tacky. The problem doesn't seem to be with a specific paint batch either in my experience. MM2 Interior Black by comparison is a much better color formulation (and for normal flat black, I turn to either Floquil Engine Black or Tamiya XF-1 Flat Black). There may continue to be a running debate about some of the colors, but overall IMHO the Model Master 2 line is a good paint line IMHO and I've used many of their Enamel colors with excellent results. I stopped using MM enamel Flat Black because it seems to go bad in the jar very quickly, getting thick and sludgy. I've also found Floquil Engine Black (and Floquil Weathered Black) are much superior to the MM product. I don't see MM as being a particularly GREAT paint--it's a competent paint, but its chief quality is availability. The one standout in the line is MM's enamel Primer. Their Primer is the best primer I have ever used--the stuff goes down great, with a semi-gloss finish that makes it very easy to spot any surface flaws. The most important thing when airbrushing MM enamels is to thin them properly--they take a lot of thinning compared to some other paint brands. When thinned properly, all the MM enamel colors I have used airbrush just fine. OTOH, I just got some Gunze Mr. Color (NOT the aqueous line!). I've heard many good things about these, can't wait to try them, and if they are as good as they say, MM's days in my shop may be numbered. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
caiotfjr Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 OTOH, I just got some Gunze Mr. Color (NOT the aqueous line!). I've heard many good things about these, can't wait to try them, and if they are as good as they say, MM's days in my shop may be numbered. I bought two jars of Mr. Color (solvent acrylics) Olive Drab by mistake. The stuff is fantastic, high quality paint. It doesn't require much thinning (use laquer thinner), it sprays beautifuly! Of course, I learnt the difference between the two caps and never did the same mistake anymore, but if you don't mind using nitrocelulose thinners, go for it... BTW, I'm a very strange guy. I like to use aqueous acrylics paints, but thin my humbrols with lacquer thinner. Go figure... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Spitfire88 Posted October 8, 2009 Author Share Posted October 8, 2009 Couple questions: MM Metalizers - I have heard they scratch really easy, but I see they make MM Metalizer Sealer so my question is if I spray MM Aluminum and seal it with their sealer with this not make it more durable? MM Gloss Paints - I am building the Hasegawa 1/32 Ki:84 Frank, I wan to use MM IJA Dark Green and IJA Grey but they are both gloss not semi-gloss. What can I mix in with this paint to make it more semi-gloss?...can I add a few drops of Testors flat coat in the mix before airbrushing? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Hawk10 Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 I can't help you much on the effects of the MM Metalizer sealer since I don't normally do NMF finishes. However, MM does manufacture Clear in Gloss, Semi-gloss and Flat finishes - simply apply the finish of your choice for the final coat. Works well for me over the Future I lay down before decaling. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jester292 Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 Couple questions:MM Metalizers - I have heard they scratch really easy, but I see they make MM Metalizer Sealer so my question is if I spray MM Aluminum and seal it with their sealer with this not make it more durable? MM Gloss Paints - I am building the Hasegawa 1/32 Ki:84 Frank, I wan to use MM IJA Dark Green and IJA Grey but they are both gloss not semi-gloss. What can I mix in with this paint to make it more semi-gloss?...can I add a few drops of Testors flat coat in the mix before airbrushing? Yes, adding flat will dull the paints. Or you may spray the kit with the gloss paints (which is better for decaling anyway), decal, then flat coat everything just enough to take off the high sheen to create a semi-gloss look. Aaron Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ScottD Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 BTW, I'm a very strange guy. I like to use aqueous acrylics paints, but thin my humbrols with lacquer thinner. Go figure... I have you beat, I thin my Gunze and Tamiya Acrylic paints with Lacquer thinner Quote Link to post Share on other sites
crazydon Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 (edited) It seems in the Model Master Series II enamal paint line that there is every RLM paint color even RLM21 White but I just noticed there is one missing, they stop at RLM 83 but where is RLM84 Sky Green? They do not offer this color and it was used on FW190-D9 I believe? There's loads of debate on if RLM 84 existed, its thought to be another shade of RLM 76 in some circles mixed with different thinners in the field. What you'll need to do is use RAF Sky with about 10% white mixed in, that should do what you want. Be aware some of MM's RLM colors suck. The only one I can think of you might use is RLM 70 Blackgreen for prop blades, its way too lite (their RLM 71 ain't much better FYI if you ever go to use it) This might help http://www.ipmsstockholm.org/colorcharts/s...rts_germany.htm Also, double check your colors on the later RLM paints. IIRR Testors mislabed 2 of the colors and I don't remember which or if they ever corrected the bottles Edited October 9, 2009 by crazydon Quote Link to post Share on other sites
toadwbg Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 I also find MM 70/71 to be awfull- at least the lighter one of the two (71 I think), just looks waaaaaayyy off to my Mark 1 eyeball. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Spitfire88 Posted October 27, 2009 Author Share Posted October 27, 2009 How about MM RLM74/75/76 how are those shades. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
crazydon Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 How about MM RLM74/75/76 how are those shades. I've never used them myself but have seen models done with them and I could live with them when my stash of Floquil/Aeromaster enamels runs out. They do have a different "look" to them but their no where near as off as the RLM 71 and 70 are....those ain't even close. Their RLM 02 is ok but could use a "tad" more green...but that's me. I was planning on trying it untill I found a stash of Aeromaster enamels on sale at Roll Models for a $1.00 a bottle....I loaded up :P :P Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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