Babalugats Posted September 23, 2010 Share Posted September 23, 2010 This is actually a bit of a philosophical discussion isn’t it? Well engineered in what sense? Engineered to last some predetermined service life with a minimum amount of repair or service i.e. basically a “sealed round†philosophy in which any repairs take the form of “plug & play†replacement of failed modules - or engineered to function indefinitely with proper scheduled service and repair as needed i.e. my old MB W123 300TD on which I can perform 80% of maintenance and repairs outside of the A/C and transmission myself and where today’s normally disposable items such as water pumps are designed to be re-machined/rebuilt! My father taught me that a man should either be able to repair his car, polish his shoes, iron his shirts, mend his clothes, love his family & country, and maintain his firearm, or he has no business having any of these things. The older I get, the more I think that he had a point. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RKic Posted September 23, 2010 Share Posted September 23, 2010 Don't particularly care. Tilt. You can buy Toyota if you want to. Nothing from that company will sit in my driveway. I thought you were too big of a cheapskate to buy a car anyhow :) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mark M. Posted September 23, 2010 Share Posted September 23, 2010 The Bond series isn't Sony's fault... MGM owns the rights and produces it, and they have been going under serious bankruptcy for some time now, as well as looking for leadership to get out of that bankruptcy, and they just keep spiralling in deeper. They gave a last-effort push to get the last Bond and one other big-name movie out, but since then have only got worse. No more Bond movies until MGM sorts its crap out, big time. Or they fold and the rights get sold off to somebody else? It would be a shame to see MGM go away, after all these years. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tilt Posted September 23, 2010 Share Posted September 23, 2010 This is actually a bit of a philosophical discussion isn’t it?Well engineered in what sense? Engineered to last some predetermined service life with a minimum amount of repair or service i.e. basically a “sealed round†philosophy in which any repairs take the form of “plug & play†replacement of failed modules - or engineered to function indefinitely with proper scheduled service and repair as needed i.e. my old MB W123 300TD on which I can perform 80% of maintenance and repairs outside of the A/C and transmission myself and where today’s normally disposable items such as water pumps are designed to be re-machined/rebuilt! My father taught me that a man should either be able to repair his car, polish his shoes, iron his shirts, mend his clothes, love his family & country, and maintain his firearm, or he has no business having any of these things. The older I get, the more I think that he had a point. Admittedly, my "well engineered" comments can mean many things with vehicles now a days. Your suggestions are 100% correct. However, I was basing mine on my own personal experience. For example my '09 Tacoma truck (which unfortunately I no longer have - but hope to get another someday). The fit and finish of the exterior and interior was near flawless. I'm talking about body panel lineup, no loose connections, solid parts, no interior squeaks, functionality of all the equipment, etc. The drive and performance was exceptional. In the time I owned it, I never had one issue that ever required my attention or action. I simply cannot say that about the several other vehicles I've owned, or had experience with. So I'm not basing my comments on the fact that I'm just a 'fan-boy' of Toyota - but rather, the fact that they make solid vehicles. As for your 'man list'. I'm afriad I would be pretty lost if I had to do any larger repairs to a vehicle post 1990 (ish). My old '66 Beaumont.....not an issue. A brand new Tacoma....sorry no thanks - I don't have the equipment or training. And I'm not into guns....so I miss that check-mark too. The others, I've got completely covered - so I hope I still get to keep my man-card. lol Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Don Posted September 23, 2010 Share Posted September 23, 2010 I think it comes down to individual taste and individual experience with specific dealers. We had an 05 Camry and hated it! Oh make no mistake, the car itself was "o.k"...not stellar mind you...but it did the job. But, whenever we had to take it to the dealership for scheduled maintenance to keep the warranty it was a nightmare in all respects. When we decided to replace it last year and upgrade to a newer model, the same dealership frankly seemed very disinterested to work with us. We tried one other Toyota dealership and found more of the same. So, we went to the local Ford dealership and they were fantastic to work with!!! We bought a 2010 Ford Fusion and it is an AWESOME car! A pure joy to drive in the city or on the many long hauls we do. Exceptional gas milage and lot's of "toys" to play with for a cheaper price then a lesser equipped Camry. The scheduled maintenance is a breeze, quick, and they take the time to explain everything. So far so good and we've told them that. I mentioned that I'am considering replacing my old beater Chevy Z71 this spring and they lent me a 2010 F150 for a weekend. I loved it! I see a 2011 Ford F150 in my future...LOL! My point being is that my story could easily be reversed by another ARC'er in another part of the Country. I think all the major car brands make both good cars and bad cars (sometimes a lemon does sneak through the assembly line despite other people who have the same make and model swearing that there's is perfect). Also, some dealerships are great and others not so much. Bottom line, whatever works for you is all that counts. Cheers all! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tilt Posted September 23, 2010 Share Posted September 23, 2010 I'll completely agree with you Don. I've heard lots of horror stories with car dealers (all makes). Personally, I've only ever run into one dealership that gave me a bad vibe - so I avoided them all together (it was a Dodge dealership here in Red Deer). I don't know if it's bigger in the US (not sure where you live), but I've heard much of the 'extreme' dealership stories from my US friends. A lot of my US friends see the word "dealership" as a red flag word - lol. My experience with dealerships here in Canada have mostly been great. The Toyota dealership here in Red Deer was just as normal as most of the others I've been too. No issues what-so-ever. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Don Posted September 23, 2010 Share Posted September 23, 2010 ... I've heard much of the 'extreme' dealership stories from my US friends.... We have these H-U-G-E dealerships were I live in PA, every major car brand has them (Toyota, Ford, Dodge, GM etc). In some cases these dealerships do major costly renovations or build entirely brand new (and expensive) MEGA showrooms every five years or so. It's like shopping for a car in a five star hotel, with fancy pants carpets, gourmet coffee, wingback chairs, leather couches, big bright sky lit showrooms that hold seven or more cars and soft music playing in the background. You name it. But this stuff doesn't impress me and it's been my experience over the years that I can never get a deal from these mega-dealers. That's what I'am more interested in...getting the cheapest price I can on the vehicle make and model that I'am looking for. We went to a small town Ford dealership that hasn't changed much in well over 40 years. The one showroom is just big enough for three cars, with old wall board walls like you see in some folks basements. The offices are small, the carpet used (imagine that!), the coffee not so good. The garage area looks dirty!! Imagine, a place that actually looks like work get's done on cars, with grease, oil, and other fluid stains on the floor, tires stacked here and there, tool chests well used...a good old fashioned vehicle GARAGE! The entire place looks...and smells...the same as dealerships did when I would go with my Dad as a kid. The lot has only a minimal number of each make and model stocked, but they can get whatever you want within a couple of days. They beat all the other "M-E-G-A" dealership prices by a HUGE margin and treated me (and continue to do so) like a person, not another body/sales commission walking through the door. My kind of place. Cheers! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GRAIL007 Posted September 23, 2010 Share Posted September 23, 2010 Still not even close. If you've never owned one......or you decided to jump on the 'media bandwagon' last year....then yeah, you're opinion will be skewed. I owned one. And I plan to own plenty more. My '09 Tacoma was easily the finest engineered vehicle I ever got the privilege to drive. And I've owned/driven a LOT of vehicles. When you say statements like, "The toyota cars of today are definitely not the ones that came out in 92 or shortly thereafter".....you're simply speaking out of your butt. Go take an actual unbiased look at some Toyotas. And no, I don't mean go read reviews or blog on the interwebs......go to the dealership and drive a few of them. Might open your eyes. Or don't...I don't care. But stop slamming vehicles you honestly know nothing about.Tilt Just playing Devil's Advocate, but you own one and that makes you an expert? You may have a one-off great truck that all the pieces fit correctly, but the other trucks on the same production run may not share the same build quality. Owning one isn't a license to be an "expert" As for him speaking out of his butt as it was so elegantly put, he is right. Toyota's today do not share the same build quality as their older versions, (in comparison to the industrial average). Older Toyotas were well above the industrial average, now even before factoring all the recalls that seem to be a monthly thing for Toyota, that quality gap had disappeared. It is a fact. These recalls were unheard of back when Toyota cared about quality, and not becoming the world's #1 car producer. I'm not going to tell my stories about crappy Toyotas (I would be writing this all day), but I've seen enough to stay away. In the end its personal preference, Toyota doesn't make a sports-car and they don't make a heavy-duty truck with a diesel, so they aren't even on my radar. cheers! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SBARC Posted September 23, 2010 Share Posted September 23, 2010 Interesting thread. I've logged over a million km driving Toyotas......crazy but true. They are not perfect cars. I have rebuilt many engines and transmissions and done more than 20 clutch jobs on Toyotas. I have done more repairs on different Toyotas then I can recall. They are good cars but far from perfect. My experiences deals with Toyotas with up to 400,000km on them.......250,0000 miles. I've found around 400,000 mils the cars begin to need more and more repairs and this is about the time I sell it and get another 100,000 Toyota. so what have I learned...... 91 MR2 have horrible transmissions....if you own a 91 MR2 switch it for a 93 transmission. 91 MR2 transmision have bad shifter forks and weak syncros. 3 gen Supra Turbos.....lates 80's model.....blow head gaskets......this is due to too low torque settings on the head bolts....when you redo the head gasket......use the reviesd torque settings. 83 Toyota Corollas (first years of the 4AC motor) have head gaskets that leak after 60,000 km. I never did figure out if higher torque settings for the head bolts could fix this. Late 80's and early 90's Tercels will fry their value guides if you let the engine oil get even slightly low.....requiring pulling the head and rebuilding it. My wife has one of these with 100,000 miles on it and I'll probably pull the ehad ina year or so as it does produce a cloud of smoke when she first starts it up. 1990 Tercels had high idle problems that Toyota never could figure out. I could go on and on. Toyota are not perfect cars...they never have been.......but they are pretty good cars all around. In all the years I've owned and driven Toyotas I have never been left stranded. I do the recommended maintenence.....rebuild alternators and starts at 100,000 km.......I do this myself for about $10 each unit. I doa reasonable job keeping on top of maintenence and repairs and I have never been left stranded......and I drive only high mileage cars. I am far from fanatical in the way I maintain my car. I do the minimum work I can get away with. I fix my own cars and because oof this I do not fear getting repairs tended to. I spent less than $100 per car most years on repairs. I would never buy a new Toyota....simply because the new car depreciation does not sit well with me. If I had the money, I would not hesitate buying a new Toyota.......but I would buy it knowing all models have their weaknesses and no machine is flawless. Some years of certain Toyota models are better than others.......not newer models or older models......just sporadic years throughout the years are better than other years of that same model. Some people are Mopar people....some like Fords, Honads etc etc. That is great with me.......cars are like a religion.......drive the one you like and respect other peoples choices. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
VADM Fangschleister Posted September 23, 2010 Share Posted September 23, 2010 Some people are Mopar people....some like Fords, Honads etc etc. Every Honad I ever had got great gas mileage and ran well. I prefer Honads. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SBARC Posted September 23, 2010 Share Posted September 23, 2010 Every Honad I ever had got great gas mileage and ran well. I prefer Honads. Oooops. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Hal Marshman Sr Posted September 24, 2010 Share Posted September 24, 2010 Honad makes good cotormycles, too. Hal Sr Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.