Huge Brawl At Air Force Academy

[Antonov]

Ouch. Literally:

http://militarytimes.com/news/2012/10/air-force-23-cadets-injured-academy-brawl-103112w/

Sounds like some discipline is needed.

[yardbird78]

Little boys must play. Little boys must play with their toys. Little boys must break their toys. Little boys must be spanked on their litte _ _ _ _ _s.

Darwin

[ChippyWho]

Members of the Armed Forces FIGHTING??? Whatever next!

[HOLMES]

Boys will be boys...they will kiss. .....er...erm. .... I mean, shake hands and make up

[JasonW]

Members of the Armed Forces FIGHTING??? Whatever next!

If it were a bunch of drunk Marines or even some drunk Army grunts or tankers, possibly even sailors I could see your point.

But Air Force cadets? Seriously?

[Antonov]

Yeah, well, it looks like the cadets actually are the well-behaved ones. Certainly compared to the airman from Kadena who just broke curfew, got drunk, broke into a civilian apartment, and beat up a 12-year-old boy before managing to stumble out of a window and fall three stories:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/03/world/asia/us-airman-is-suspected-of-punching-japanese-boy-police-say.html

Two weeks after an alleged sexual assault on Okinawa involving two American sailors... not good.

Edited November 2, 2012 by Antonov

[bigjugs]

Given the history of sexual assaults at the Academy, officers yes, gentlemen no way.

Bad frat boys in uniform and at the taxpayers expense.

[11bee]

Members of the Armed Forces FIGHTING??? Whatever next!

There will be no fighting in the war room!

When I first read this, I imagined a bunch of weenies slapping each other while frolicking in the snow.

Then I heard that one of those poor cadets was bitten. Gotta find Cadet Lecter and give him an immediate transfer to the Marines.

[TaiidanTomcat]

Yeah, well, it looks like the cadets actually are the well-behaved ones. Certainly compared to the airman from Kadena who just broke curfew, got drunk, broke into a civilian apartment, and beat up a 12-year-old boy before managing to stumble out of a window and fall three stories:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/03/world/asia/us-airman-is-suspected-of-punching-japanese-boy-police-say.html

Two weeks after an alleged sexual assault on Okinawa involving two American sailors... not good.

Were we not taking the fight seriously enough and we had to include the above stories?

[Hawkeye's Hobbies]

Okinawa has had a long history with sexual assaults on locals for decades with personnel from every branch involved at one time or another. If Okinawa could separate itself from the rest of Japan, we'd be kicked off the island in the blink of an eye.

[11bee]

Yeah, well, it looks like the cadets actually are the well-behaved ones. Certainly compared to the airman from Kadena who just broke curfew, got drunk, broke into a civilian apartment, and beat up a 12-year-old boy before managing to stumble out of a window and fall three stories:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/03/world/asia/us-airman-is-suspected-of-punching-japanese-boy-police-say.html

Two weeks after an alleged sexual assault on Okinawa involving two American sailors... not good.

I don't know what the problem is on that rock but the track record over the years is pretty bad. That assault accusation from a couple of weeks ago is going to create a huge shat storm, at a time when political momentum was already shifting in favor shutting down the bases.

Edited November 2, 2012 by 11bee

[TaiidanTomcat]

I don't know what the problem is on that rock but the track record over the years is pretty bad. That assault accusation from a couple of weeks ago is going to create a huge shat storm, at a time when political momentum was already shifting in favor shutting down the bases.

Theyre not going anywhere. We just moved V-22s there and the US is shifting to the Pacific.

Can we get back to joking about the fight now that we have taken the OPs "USA troops are bad" bait?

Edited November 2, 2012 by TaiidanTomcat

[Antonov]

Theyre not going anywhere. We just moved V-22s there and the US is shifting to the Pacific.

Can we get back to joking about the fight now that we have taken the OPs "USA troops are bad" bait?

Pardon me, but I said nothing of the sort.

There have been some very serious discipline breaches in the US military over the past couple of weeks. There's nothing anti-military about pointing them out, or about saying that they're a bad thing.

Supporting something - the military, your political party, your favorite sports team - doesn't mean never pointing out its problems or never criticizing it when you think it's gone wrong. In fact, it's usually your closest friends and most trusted colleagues that you rely on to tell you when you've got a problem that you need to do something about.

Edited November 2, 2012 by Antonov

[scapilot]

...sounds like the most combat that the air force has seen in years.

[rightwinger26]

They have to break the stigma of being the Chair Force somehow :D

[TaiidanTomcat]

Pardon me, but I said nothing of the sort.

There have been some very serious discipline breaches in the US military over the past couple of weeks. There's nothing anti-military about pointing them out, or about saying that they're a bad thing.

So you do feel this is a trend or are you cobbling together incidents that are thousands of miles apart to make it appear so? Nothing wrong with being critical after all. What conclusions are we supposed to draw? The other thing is there are thousands of breaches of US military discipline everyday, just because you are recently noticing these does not make them new. So I'm not accusing you of being anti military, I'm just curious to see why you think its important to note that the sun rises in the east.

Its like me saying that California has a mugger out there. Then I point out that there are burglers too.

I'm not being anti california or anything, just pointing out that lately there has been a lot of crime there lately. See there are crimes in the other 49 states too, so why would I single out california and try and show a trend with unrelated incidents?

Whats your point? Is it all coordinated or is it just another day in the military where random stupid people do random stupid things?

They have to break the stigma of being the Chair Force somehow :D

No faster way to do that than swinging a few at people's heads!

Edited November 2, 2012 by TaiidanTomcat

[Tony Stark]

None of this would have happened if they didn't retire the Tomcat.

[TaiidanTomcat]

None of this would have happened if they didn't retire the Tomcat.

A lot of people say the Air Force is full of stupid people but you have to be pretty smart to fly Harriers, Hornets, Tomcats, and Intruders.

Probably a Tweet argument that got outta hand.

[zerosystem]

A lot of people say the Air Force is full of stupid people but you have to be pretty smart to fly Harriers, Hornets, Tomcats, and Intruders.

Probably a Tweet argument that got outta hand.

just another f-35 debate that got out of hand

[TaiidanTomcat]

FTFA:

he might be amenable to allowing cadets to keep some version of the tradition if they presented him a proposal for how it could be executed with “good order and discipline and proper risk management.”

Path to officer promotion in the military:

A Good Order

B Discipline

C Risk Management

D Risk Management

E Risk Management

F Risk Management

If unsure of the answer, guess. The question has been managed to mitigate the risk of you getting it wrong.

In all seriousness I look forward to the newer, safer, now traditional tickling contest in the future.

“A relatively small number of cadets chose to take part in this unsafe activity. This incident was unacceptable,”

Translation: We keep telling them to be fearful of their own shadow but a small group continues to venture into the sunlight and do reckless things that could result in them putting themselves in danger to win a war someday in the future. This we can not abide. we hope to break them of this through tedious and well memorized safety briefings repeated ad nauseam, until they quit in disgust and go fly an airliner or manage a bank.

Edited November 3, 2012 by TaiidanTomcat

[Gary Busey]

http://militarytimes.com/news/2012/10/air-force-23-cadets-injured-academy-brawl-103112w/

Sounds like some discipline is needed.

Aw hell, only one cadet was bitten? Amateurs!

[JasonW]

Translation: We keep telling them to be fearful of their own shadow but a small group continues to venture into the sunlight and do reckless things that could result in them putting themselves in danger to win a war someday in the future. This we can not abide. we hope to break them of this through tedious and well memorized safety briefings repeated ad nauseam, until they quit in disgust and go fly an airliner or manage a bank.

I know I shouldn't think that this post is really funny, but it is funny.

And all too true unfortunately.

[Antonov]

So you do feel this is a trend or are you cobbling together incidents that are thousands of miles apart to make it appear so?

Two serious criminal incidents by servicemembers in Okinawa within two weeks, at a time when the public in Okinawa is already worked up with anti-base sentiment, is a grave and important matter. The Okinawans are uncomfortable and mistrustful enough of the US military as it is, and you'd be surprised how much having American soldiers raping their women and beating their children doesn't help.

Piled onto this, the USAF academy incident is troubling. This isn't a bunch of Marine recruits getting into a donnybrook at an off-base roadhouse on a Saturday night. Air Force Academy cadets are supposed to be the best of the best - the smartest, the most mature, the most careful - the officer corps of the future for the most technical of the military services. The fact that they were unable to conduct a long-standing cadet tradition (and tradition is everything at the US military academies) with sufficient care and discipline to prevent it from turning into a small-scale riot that put a couple of dozen people in the hospital is something that does not, and should not, leave one feeling optimistic.

Perhaps this will be the end of it, and we will have no more serious incidents for many years to come. We'd better - the military can;t afford too many more of them, especially on Okinawa. As it stands, however, they all come together to suggest that there may be some problems brewing in the military. If so, whoever is in a position to do so needs to start taking this seriously and do something about it.

[11bee]

Piled onto this, the USAF academy incident is troubling. This isn't a bunch of Marine recruits getting into a donnybrook at an off-base roadhouse on a Saturday night. Air Force Academy cadets are supposed to be the best of the best - the smartest, the most mature, the most careful - the officer corps of the future for the most technical of the military services. The fact that they were unable to conduct a long-standing cadet tradition (and tradition is everything at the US military academies) with sufficient care and discipline to prevent it from turning into a small-scale riot that put a couple of dozen people in the hospital is something that does not, and should not, leave one feeling optimistic.

Perhaps this will be the end of it, and we will have no more serious incidents for many years to come. We'd better - the military can;t afford too many more of them, especially on Okinawa. As it stands, however, they all come together to suggest that there may be some problems brewing in the military. If so, whoever is in a position to do so needs to start taking this seriously and do something about it.

The AF issue is nothing more than a bunch of 18 and 19 year old kids getting a bit boisterous. I had the misfortune of having some West Point Cadets spend some time in my unit and they didn't seem much different than the AF zoomies. After 4 years in the system, they will be just fine. The ones that don't conform will be long gone.

Granted the ongoing problems at Okinawa are troubling but how you tie these two together is beyond me. Some dirtbag E-whatevers on Okinawa have no connection the silly antics of first year AF cadets. The first group are criminals / social deviants who should be punished to the full extent of the law and will be, the second group are kids that took an established tradition and let it get a bit out of hand.

Don't loose any sleep over it.

Edited November 3, 2012 by 11bee

[TaiidanTomcat]

Thank you for dropping the Doe eyed flirting and just coming out and saying what you think finally. Only took 2 pages.

Two serious criminal incidents by servicemembers in Okinawa within two weeks, at a time when the public in Okinawa is already worked up with anti-base sentiment, is a grave and important matter. The Okinawans are uncomfortable and mistrustful enough of the US military as it is, and you'd be surprised how much having American soldiers raping their women and beating their children doesn't help.

Thanks for the lecture. Obvious what happened is wrong. Those who committed the crimes get whats coming to them. But frankly we have been involved in a couple places recently where the locals weren't that into us, and it was much much more violent. We aren't going anywhere no matter how much the Okinawan are unhappy. I'm sorry I have to tell you that. Moreover do you think the Okinawans are looking at the academy brawl and using it as a conclusion that the whole US military is falling apart? no. thats a conclusion you jumped to on your own after seeing the stories closely together.

Piled onto this, the USAF academy incident is troubling. This isn't a bunch of Marine recruits getting into a donnybrook at an off-base roadhouse on a Saturday night. Air Force Academy cadets are supposed to be the best of the best - the smartest, the most mature, the most careful - the officer corps of the future for the most technical of the military services.

Surely this branch of the military is above fighting?! You seem to be confusing the USAF for a bunch of thumb sucking, woobie loving, sweethearts, which is an easy mistake. I have been doing some research and it turns out that the USAF academy even partakes in a savage sport known as "football" there is an even more brutal sport known as "Rugby" The Air force also participates in this savagery!! clearly these sports are beneath them!!

Also Hockey.

Air Force Academy cadets are supposed to be the best of the best - the smartest, the most mature, the most careful - the officer corps of the future for the most technical of the military services.

Not like those hacks and morons at West Point and Annapolis. You realize that only a fraction of the officer corps even comes from the academies right?

The fact that they were unable to conduct a long-standing cadet tradition (and tradition is everything at the US military academies) with sufficient care and discipline to prevent it from turning into a small-scale riot that put a couple of dozen people in the hospital is something that does not, and should not, leave one feeling optimistic.

The military never has and never will haze! Clearly this is the end!!

Perhaps this will be the end of it, and we will have no more serious incidents for many years to come.

Serious incident? You do realize the US military has been fighting a war for the last 11 years in multiple countries right? people being blown apart is serious. This is a school yard scuffle that you have juxtaposed with a crime thousands of miles away and designated a "trend"

We'd better - the military can;t afford too many more of them, especially on Okinawa. As it stands, however, they all come together to suggest that there may be some problems brewing in the military. If so, whoever is in a position to do so needs to start taking this seriously and do something about it.

Where have you been the last 11 years? What do you think the US Military has been doing the last eleven years, and now the military has "some problems brewing" because you read about some kids fighting in Colorado Springs? The Military is trying to solve life and death combat problems, and other issues like suicide, and you are just now getting that there may be some serious issues out there?

Seriously?

Edited November 3, 2012 by TaiidanTomcat