VA-115EFR Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 I wonder how many Intruder builders knocked off the IFR probe during construction? I did as well She's looking great with the flaps slats and flaperons deployed! Might have to buy me a HB Intruder now! Scott sharing that information really takes me back also as a Structural Mechanic and a Plane Captain! So much @#!! I've forgotten over the years. Really miss it!!! Really enjoying your build, Joel! Jason Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Joel_W Posted August 18, 2014 Author Share Posted August 18, 2014 (edited) Jason, Thanks so much for you most positive comments, and for taking the time to stop by. At the rate I'm going, this will be the longest build by far since my return to the hobby. Scott's info really answered a lot of my questions and misconceptions. Joel Edited August 18, 2014 by Joel_W Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pg265 Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 Hi, Great work Joel!! Can't wait to see more. One of my favorite jets!! Pascal Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Joel_W Posted August 18, 2014 Author Share Posted August 18, 2014 Scott, After reading and rereading your excellent post, it finally sunk in that that I was calling Flap covers, are actually Flaperons, and that they should be in the neutral position when parked. So now I'm faced with the issue of leaving them in the up position while parked on the ground waiting for the crew for take off, or trying to figure out how to change them, so that I can have them in the neutral position. The HB kit has two different sets on brackets, one for the closed or neutral position, and one for the down position. I've glued the brackets on, so now I have to figure out how to change all 4 flaperons, if I can. Maybe I should have asked or questioned why the flaperons were in the down position in this picture :bandhead2:/> Joel Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ScotVA36 Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 (edited) You could raise the flaperon on the ground for deflection checks it required external power ie hyd and elec, then engage the cockpit switch and advance the throttles past half then the would raise. To answer your question as to why they are not deployed in that pic is because it's aboard ship thus the pilot would not have engaged " flaperon pop-up" it's not needed for an arrested landed on ship, plus that pic is showing the aircraft approaching the cats getting ready to launch.Sorry for all the confusion didn't mean to mess your wonderful build up. Scott Edited August 18, 2014 by ScotVA36 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Joel_W Posted August 18, 2014 Author Share Posted August 18, 2014 Hi, Great work Joel!! Can't wait to see more. One of my favorite jets!! Pascal :salute:/> Pascal, Thanks so much for your most positive comments. Right now I'm trying to figure out how to fix my error with the Flaperons, which I have in the up position, and they should be in the down or neutral position. Joel Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Joel_W Posted August 18, 2014 Author Share Posted August 18, 2014 You could raise the flaperon on the ground for deflection checks it required external power ie hyd and elec, then engage the cockpit switch and advance the throttles past half then the would raise. To answer your question as to why they are not deployed in that pic is because it's aboard ship thus the pilot would not have engaged " flaperon pop-up" it's not needed for an arrested landed on ship, plus that pic is showing the aircraft approaching the cats getting ready to launch.Sorry for all the confusion didn't mean to mess your wonderful build up. Scott Scott, So for the sake of not trying to cut all the brackets off, then cutting and fitting new brackets, which may or may not work, I can leave them in the up position, and it's not totally wrong? My next A-6 build, will have them no matter what in the down position. Joel Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ScotVA36 Posted August 19, 2014 Share Posted August 19, 2014 (edited) Scott, So for the sake of not trying to cut all the brackets off, then cutting and fitting new brackets, which may or may not work, I can leave them in the up position, and it's not totally wrong? My next A-6 build, will have them no matter what in the down position. Joel Well to leave those surfaces up while park first you would need a hyd jenny ans nc8 out on the flight then they could be duplicated. You could make a dio of it just touching down land base. Flaperons where a pian in the butt the are held on via a hingpin very long one and they neve wanted to come out, any my two cent I would cut them down to lay flat either way you gonna make it look sweet, Scott Edited August 20, 2014 by ScotVA36 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Joel_W Posted August 20, 2014 Author Share Posted August 20, 2014 Scott, Thanks for the update info. Will be looking at those Flaperons again, and see if I can drop them down without having to do major surgery. Years of WW11 props, sure hasn't prepared my for the world of jet aircraft. Joel Quote Link to post Share on other sites
VA-115EFR Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 would a land based landing configuration work? Have it at a nose up attitude during rollout, but just reposition the horizontal stabs... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Devilleader501 Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 (edited) would a land based landing configuration work? Have it at a nose up attitude during rollout, but just reposition the horizontal stabs... +1 I second this thought. I am building an EA-6B Prowler in that configuration and it has the flaperons in the up position. From what I have researched the flaperons are only used as speed breaks. And what was posted earlier would not be deployed on a Carrier because of the arrested landings. On ground they would be deployed because of the speed in which the land at and the wing tip speed brakes are not enough to slow the aircraft down. Edited August 21, 2014 by Devilleader501 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Micro Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 I don't mean to be picky, but aren't those surfaces just spoilers? Their only positions are neutral or up to spoil the lift of the wing - they don't go down to increase lift as a true flaperon does. For example, the F-14 used the same system, spoilers on each wing in place of ailerons. The F-18 has true flaperons on the outboard wings which go fully down and fully up. Trust me, I'm fully aware that the military can and does use misnomers all the time, but they sure appear to be spoilers to me. In any case, it's a nice build. I'd agree with the other guys and say that if you don't want to change their position, just depict a land-based landing. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Devilleader501 Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 The only thing else I would suggest if you will do a landing DIO is to extend the landing gear to their full extended length to show that is is indeed coming in for a landing. I have a full set of scratch build gear waiting for the Prowler I am building that have been extended if you want them. All I would require in return is your landing gear in return. So I can re modify them to fit my Prowler. This thing has been on the shelf for a year now pending me getting a new airbrush compressor. If you are interested give me a PM and I will get them out within a few days. I care not if yours have even been touched as far as paint or wheels being put on already. Here are the landing gear that have been modified if you are interested. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Joel_W Posted August 21, 2014 Author Share Posted August 21, 2014 would a land based landing configuration work? Have it at a nose up attitude during rollout, but just reposition the horizontal stabs... This entire screw up is totally mine for not doing the proper amount of research to understand what those flaperons were and their functions were. What strikes me as even being more stupid is that I've sat in the seats over the wings on countless flights, and those planes have flaperons. I just never made the connection. Once Scott suggested that I could have them in the up position as a hydrolytic test prior to an actual take off, I decided I would go that route. I'm still looking at the real possibility of just trying to cut, then drill mounting holes for rods, then cut and glue up the brackets needed for the closed position. I should have known better then to rely on Hobby Boss's directions as the final answer. Joel Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Joel_W Posted August 21, 2014 Author Share Posted August 21, 2014 (edited) The only thing else I would suggest if you will do a landing DIO is to extend the landing gear to their full extended length to show that is is indeed coming in for a landing. I have a full set of scratch build gear waiting for the Prowler I am building that have been extended if you want them. All I would require in return is your landing gear in return. So I can re modify them to fit my Prowler. This thing has been on the shelf for a year now pending me getting a new airbrush compressor. If you are interested give me a PM and I will get them out within a few days. I care not if yours have even been touched as far as paint or wheels being put on already. Here are the landing gear that have been modified if you are interested. Devilleader501, Thank you so much for your offer of swapping landing gear. Your set looks great with the type of detailing for the brake lines I'm just starting to work on. But my model is just a display shelf model, not as part of a diorama, which I've never built one yet. I've also glued up the outer wing landing flaps in the closed position, so that would also kill your idea. BTW, your WIP EA-6B looks great in that camo paint scheme. Sure hope that you get a new compressor soon, so that you can finish it. Joel Edited August 21, 2014 by Joel_W Quote Link to post Share on other sites
VA-115EFR Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 (edited) It's not a big deal, Joel. Your work looks bad a$$ regardless! Ya don't see too many A-6 models with that option. Personally, I LOVE the look with the flaperons up. Gives the model attitude. Looking forward to more updates! Jason Edited August 21, 2014 by VA-115EFR Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ScotVA36 Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 I don't mean to be picky, but aren't those surfaces just spoilers? Their only positions are neutral or up to spoil the lift of the wing - they don't go down to increase lift as a true flaperon does. For example, the F-14 used the same system, spoilers on each wing in place of ailerons. The F-18 has true flaperons on the outboard wings which go fully down and fully up. Trust me, I'm fully aware that the military can and does use misnomers all the time, but they sure appear to be spoilers to me. In any case, it's a nice build. I'd agree with the other guys and say that if you don't want to change their position, just depict a land-based landing. You correct it maybe a misnomer but in the a-6 communitie they are flaperons the maintainence manuals plus the NATOPS will list these as flaperons It's been that way for 50 years they do work with the flaps when they are both down Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Joel_W Posted August 21, 2014 Author Share Posted August 21, 2014 (edited) Ok guys, I bit the bullet as those flaperons were really becoming an personal issue with me. So I decided to go ahead and cut off the mount brackets. Looked at the instructions again, and a lucky break, for the closed position you just cut them off and glue the flaperons to the wings. So I cut them off. Wasn't thrilled with the fit as they're not meant to be with the flaps in the down position, so I glued them carefully at a angle to the flap brackets. Will fill in with thick CA glue as the last step. Need to re-sand, polish, and re-paint some of the red. Here's what one side looks like. Joel Edited August 23, 2014 by Joel_W Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Aigore Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 Progress, wohoo! Sometimes it's necessary to soldier on through an obstacle that might otherwise put the build on hold. And othertimes it's good to step back for a while and let the model brew a bit :D Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Joel_W Posted August 21, 2014 Author Share Posted August 21, 2014 (edited) Brewed it did, and so did I. Extra work, and extra painting, but I think it's worth it for the sake of accuracy and my sanity. Joel Edited August 21, 2014 by Joel_W Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dnl42 Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 Snatching victory from the jaws of death! BTW, I see you have the JHmodels jig. I just got the bipe version, but the base is too flexible and needs stiffening to maintain wing and tail alignment. How's the base on your version? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jgrease Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 Was wondering where you went with this one Joel - keep 'em coming! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ScotVA36 Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 Gad you went that way she looks wonderful, The A-6 just looks powerful you either love it or ya don't , the A-6 was a bird I really hated to love, I ended up teaching FRAMP,and was in VA-34 and VA-36 plus worked on Intruders at Strike in Pax River till we flew 527 out to the bone yard then I went to Hornets hated them I really mss the A6. Yours is looking great! Scott Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Devilleader501 Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 Ok Joel no problem. Figured I would offer just in case. I am very much enjoying this build. It really is making me want to break out my other Intruders. I am an A-6 Lover of both airframes and have 3 each in the stash along with the one I have currently on hold. If you ever need anything I am one of the Prowler Intruder guys that you can talk to. I dont know everything But I can answer questions. And I have a GRIP of pictures should you need them. Keep up the great work cant wait to see more. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Joel_W Posted August 22, 2014 Author Share Posted August 22, 2014 (edited) Snatching victory from the jaws of death! BTW, I see you have the JHmodels jig. I just got the bipe version, but the base is too flexible and needs stiffening to maintain wing and tail alignment. How's the base on your version? David, Well, at least I won this battle. I'm sure that the Hobby Boss kit still have lots of surprises in store for me. I got my JH model standing a few days ago, built it according to the instructions which are about as well written as some of the poor Chinese kit instructions. I found the parts to be of ok quality, but they could have done a better job with the laser cutting, as building the 4 adjusting sliding holders their bottoms where the 3 pcs go that contain the bolt, are just a little too small, so you have to force the parts. I ended up spending time filing and sanding for a better fit, as I was concerned that I would break them. My base was actually some what warped, which made gluing the two cross pcs nearly impossible following their directions. I ended up using white clue and two wood clamps to glue one brace, then when dry I glued the other brace. The base still has a slight warp as it wobbles on a perfectly flat table when nothing else does with a flat bottom. Their method of padding the four movable holders by gluing pieces of rubber band is both shoddy, and cheap. It's very hard to evenly glue the rubberband to as you work your way around. The stand has no weight to it so the weight of the model is what is supposed to keep it from moving is a joke. You need to leave the four adjusting screws somewhat loose so you can adjust them. Honestly, for $35 dollars the stand isn't worth the money nor the effort required to build it. As a long term modeling aid I see it's future as being designated to a shelf in the storage. Joel Edited August 22, 2014 by Joel_W Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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