1/32 Trumpeter P-38L Lightning- "Kicked Up A Notch"

[Marcel111]

Chuck, big thanks for taking the time to create this very thorough tutorial.

Marcel

[chuck540z3]

Chuck, first I want to say your posts and tutorials are amazing! As a web admin and avid photographer I respect and appreciate the work you put in to creating such amazing posts, not even mentioning your phenomenal modeling skills. Standing ovation to you sir.

Now that I buttered you up I was wondering if you have any tips or tricks to your wiring techniques. The wire strands you created in the wheel wells and especially in the P-51 build would drive me off a ledge.

Keep up the great work!

-Eric

Hi Eric. Thank you very much for your kind words. Unfortunately, I don't really have any tips or tricks for doing wiring and plumbing, other than recommending the use of lead wire from UMM for wiring that needs to be flexible. It comes in a variety of sizes like 0.2 mm right up to 1.0 MM.

For hydraulic lines and other plumbing that needs to be rigid, I use 26 and 28 gauge silver colored wire that you can buy at an electronics store. I also use fly fishing wire used to tie flies, which comes in silver and black.

Here's the P-51 gear well with a combination of the wire above. Since this area is so visible from underneath, I spend quite a bit of time on getting the major lines installed according to reference pics. The white braided wire is thin lead wire that I painted before installation.

For this build, the gear wells will be almost invisible, so I just put in some basic lines that might show up from below. To get the lines to remain parallel to each other, I use CA glue from behind to hold them together. CA glue debonder is then used to clean up any mess.

When installed within the gear well, they look pretty good, but I doubt I'll ever see them again once I get the gear well doors installed.

I hope this helps, but to be honest, I'm now drifting away from a lot of detail within the gear wells, since you rarely see it again once the model is finished and placed on a shelf.

[kike]

You have way more patience and skills than me Chuck! I just can't see myself scratching something like that! I'll have to give it a try tho! I'm not a propeller guy but following this build gave me the "thing" to give it a shot! will see... Thnx anyway for those lots of inspiration and knowledge

[chuck540z3]

Just a quick update boys, mostly because I'm tired of sanding and filling the many join flaws on the left boom. Like the right boom, I need a fairly thick strip of styrene to close the gap on the inside. As before, putty and other fillers are not the best solution for this gap because there is a lot of potential flex to the wings, which will result in a crack. Styrene, along with Tamiya Extra Thin Cement (TETC), creates a very strong bond that can flex without cracking.

Unfortunately, the outer seam also requires some filling, although not as much. I was able to fill this seam with just TETC on the right boom- more on that later.

The top fit is also quite crude, with the rear of the boom to wing join having a sizable gap as well.

After sanding the join down so that the parts were flush, I just used TETC on the left and top join, oozing it in from the side. The cement causes the plastic parts to melt, closing the gap with a sort of natural liquid sprue. For the rear, the gap is too big for TETC, so I used CA glue to fill the gap, then re-scribed the panel line within an hour of application. If you don't rush the drying of the CA glue, it forms a nice smooth surface that is easily sanded down and accepts a scriber without chipping. After more Tamiya panel line accent color, it appears that there are no scribing errors and everything is nice and smooth.

I'm really glad I attached just the right boom first and fixed the panel line and join problems, before I attached the left boom. All stuck together now, this model is a real bear to handle, especially with the weight in the engines.

Now a tip. To help hold the model when sanding and allow the landing gear to not touch anything that could break or scratch them, I'm now using my trusty model holder that I have used for all my models. This simple cardboard box with pipe wrap along the top costs about $1.00 to make and unlike other jigs made of plastic or wood to hold your model, the spongy pipe wrap won't scratch anything. I also use this box to hold the model when it comes time to paint and if I get paint all over the box, who cares? I'll just make another one.

As I said, I've used this type of setup many times before!

Now back to a LOT more sanding....

Edited September 15, 2015 by chuck540z3

[erik_g]

Damn, that plumbing is really neat and tidy.. Makes me want to restart the mlg well I´ve been working on for a few evenings now..

[Joel_W]

Chuck,

Excellent work on those nasty looking seams and joints. Are you saying that it's better not to use a accelerator on the CA if I have to sand and or rescribe?

I've used a wooden adjustable jig for the last few years, and do find it a pain at times to work with. Your shoe box with foam pipe insulation and even a cloth over that is just what I'm looking for. I can paint on it, and when it to beat up to use, just make a new one.

Joel

Edited September 15, 2015 by Joel_W

[chuck540z3]

Chuck,

Excellent work on those nasty looking seams and joints. Are you saying that it's better not to use a accelerator on the CA if I have to sand and or rescribe?

Joel

Yes- and no. First of all, I use thin CA glue which dries a bit quicker than the thicker stuff, so I let it sit for maybe 10 minutes or so, then I hit it with some accelerator, but only near the glue, rather than right on it. The CA glue will start to harden and when I think it's fairly tight, I'll put the accelerator right on it. After that I let everything dry for 5 minutes or so before sanding and re-scribing, because the accelerator sometimes makes the plastic a bit soft.

I do it this way, because if you apply accelerator directly to the glue when it's fresh, it tends to bubble up and create air pockets. These can be fixed with more CA glue, but it's a lot quicker and easier to let the glue dry on it's own a bit first. Of course you can use no accelerator for the smoothest results, but then you are pushing the drying time out, which makes the CA glue much harder to sand and scribe. It's all a fine line based upon personal experience and I suspect local humidity, etc. will play a big role, since CA glue hardens by attracting water vapor.

[Jose Maria]

Hi Chuck,

Impressive work dude, I'll follow until the end, really beauty.

Cheers.

JM

[Blue73]

Amazing clean and detailed work Chuck! I appreciate your thorough explanations, I've learnt allot from you already.

Would you mind uploading a picture or your working area? I'd be interested to see how it looks.

Thanks.

cheers

John

[chuck540z3]

Would you mind uploading a picture or your working area? I'd be interested to see how it looks.

Thanks.

cheers

John

Sure. This pic is old and not very good quality, but it shows generally how things look in my Man Cave. The only real change is a small photo-booth I now have on the counter to the left.

[Joel_W]

Chuck,

Just a great looking modeling man cave. The only thing I noticed is that your models are all on shelves with no protection from dust and dirt. How do you keep them clean? Over the years the two D's have become as much of an enemy as the Carpet monster.

Joel

[chuck540z3]

Chuck,

Just a great looking modeling man cave. The only thing I noticed is that your models are all on shelves with no protection from dust and dirt. How do you keep them clean? Over the years the two D's have become as much of an enemy as the Carpet monster.

Joel

Like I said, it's an old pic, but I now have some closed-in glass shelving for my better models, while the beaters I made 6 or more years ago remain outside, dust and all. As well, I have a couple of acrylic covers for a few of the bigger models like my A-10C that won't fit in the shelves to keep the dust off them.

Cheers,

Chuck

Edited September 16, 2015 by chuck540z3

[Blue73]

Thanks Chuck that looks great, I assume you spray in a different area.

[A-10 LOADER]

Nice digs Chuck. I would have thought that building 1/32 scale stuff would require much more bench space. Could you provide a closeup of the metal piece that holds the sides and top together on your tall glass cabinet.please ? I want to take that pic to a glass shop and see if they can fabricate me a display case for the Big Cat. The prices I got for a plexiglas case is insane.

Steve

[chuck540z3]

Nice digs Chuck. I would have thought that building 1/32 scale stuff would require much more bench space. Could you provide a closeup of the metal piece that holds the sides and top together on your tall glass cabinet.please ? I want to take that pic to a glass shop and see if they can fabricate me a display case for the Big Cat. The prices I got for a plexiglas case is insane.

Steve

Hi Steve,

The only shot I have of the corner is this one, which vaguely shows the 2 panel bracket, since the front doors are not secured for obvious reasons.

For the upper back corner, there is a 3 panel bracket which I don't have a pic of. It looks fairly close (if not identical) to this one I found on the 'net.

Glass cabinet corner bracket

For the bottom, the glass just slides into a groove, so you only need a 2 panel bracket for the sides. Glass shelves fit on rubberized clips that attach through holes on the sides.

Funny, but when I was shopping for glass cabinets I found many items I really liked in the US, but by the time I shipped them to Canada, it just wasn't worth it and they might be broken by the time they arrived. That's why I had a custom made plexiglass/acrylic box made for my big A-10- to save money!

[A-10 LOADER]

Awesome work, thank you sir. That link was perfect. How "dust free" does that cabinet keep the models, since it has the sliding doors on it ?

Would like to see a pic of the acrylic cover for the A-10 too. What thickness acrylic did you go with 1/4 " or 3/8" ?

Steve

[skyhawk174]

Chuck

Been real busy at work which is great considering our company is here in Alberta and we are in the oil and gas business. Anyway, I was going to thank you for that liquid sprue tutorial. I used a mix of sprue and liquid cement many years ago but to be honest I did not get very good results. At the time I used Testors liquid cement and to be honest not sure which sprue. After reading your description I think my mix was not right and I was not patient enough. I think I will give it a try again but keep my sprue from the Tamiya kits and use Tamiya cement.

As an aside I was able to buy some Tamiya styrene shapes and I love it. They don't have many sizes just squares and rounds and but it glues great.

[Tom]

I've used LS in the past but melted it with lacquer thinner. Next time I need to make a batch I'll give it a try with liquid glue.

Cheers,

Tom

[chuck540z3]

September 21, 2015

A bit of an update- and a bit of disaster. More on that later.

When you attach the second boom to the wing and fuselage, it’s a good time to attach and glue the horizontal stabilizer. You can still flex the booms outward enough to make it fit later, but it provides strength to the assembly and you don’t want anything to crack by doing so. The fit is predictably Trumpeter, which is to say it is fairly poor. Here it is just glued together before cleanup.

After sanding things down and adding a little rivet detail, the join looks much better. Pretty basic modeling, but a big improvement nonetheless.

Now a brief flashback. To attach the plastic chop sticks to the upper wing, I used “GOOP” adhesive because it is strong, but it is also flexible, unlike CA glue. Although the glue warns that it might harm some plastics, I tried it on a test piece of sprue and it worked fine without any issues, as it did on the wing.

This model is a real tail sitter without a lot of weight in the nose and engines. With the nose assembly completed, it was time to fill it with ¼” “Pencil Lead” with 3 pieces on the top and 3 pieces on the bottom, which were glued in using more GOOP, as I did with the engines. I don’t want this lead to move later, so I really layered in the GOOP to make sure everything was secure. I also re-glued the front landing gear from the sides, which is now straight.

With my prior work on the nose assembly and the weight in the nose, it’s now a drop-in which I glued with Tamiya Extra Thin Cement (TETC)

Landing gear is now nice and straight, so on Thursday night last week I was a fairly happy camper with my progress.

Friday morning I added a bit more TETC to close a few remaining gaps and things looked fine. By Friday afternoon, however, the beginning of a minor disaster started to show! Apparently the GOOP was attacking the plastic slightly causing two small depressions. No big deal, I thought, because I can just fill the depressions with putty since they do not involve panel lines or rivet detail.

I was away for the weekend and was looking forward to sanding down the putty and the sides of the gun panels last night. Here is what I found!!! I now have a major disaster. :bandhead2: :bandhead2:

It isn’t limited to the top either.

SOOOOO, here I am now with a very big problem, which apparently was self induced. The GOOP label warned of possible damage to plastic, but I tested it before and had absolutely no problems using it on the wings. I might have had issues when using it to secure weight in the engines, but they are buried now in the booms and any warping or depressions cannot be seen. How come it is eating the plastic now but not before?!

Thinking about it for a few days, I think the issue is thickness of glue and lack of ventilation. The GOOP on the wings was thin and had open ventilation for the volatiles in the glue to escape. In the nose section, it was very thick and when I glued the nose section onto the fuselage with TETC, there was hardly any ventilation, other than the small holes for the guns. Whatever the case, this is obviously a real bummer after 10 months of work so far, but I just have to accept this setback as a challenge to fix. But how?

Tamiya Putty. More putty will fill the depressions alright and can be sanded down fairly smooth, but you can’t rescribe panel lines in it or poke rivet detail in it without chipping.

CA glue. This will also fill the depressions and can be sanded smooth. A panel line can be rescribed easily enough if I do it when the glue is freshly hardened, but rivet detail will likely be a problem. Poking holes in CA glue can also lead to chipping.

Liquid Sprue (LS). Adding LS to the current depressions might just add to the current problem of “melting” plastic. After it dries hard, I can add panel lines and rivet detail easily, but how long will it take to dry? A month, maybe two?

After thinking about it some more, I think my best solution is a combination of putty and LS where I have panel line and rivet detail to repair. The big depressions can be filled with putty half way and if I top it up with LS, the putty will seal the LS from the rest of the plastic. Put on thin, the LS should dry in a reasonable length of time so that I can scribe new panel lines and poke new rivets with a needle. What do you guys think? Do you have a better idea? I’m all ears!

Cheers,

Chuck

Edited September 21, 2015 by chuck540z3

[Joel_W]

Chuck,

Ouch!! I certainly feel your pain.

1st and foremost you should really leave everything as is until you're sure that the Goop has completely dried and cured, and that plastic has also done the same. How long that will take, I have no idea. But as you said, LS can takes months to fully cure. I tend to agree with your assessment that it's a combination of too much goop in a confined space with almost no ventilation.

While you can't solve the amount of goop used, you could try to increase the ventilation which should help speed up the curing time by drilling a few holes in each of those areas. As long as you don't drill into panel lines and rivets, you should be ok, as you're going to fill those depressions with a combination of CCA and putty.

You're really facing two separate issues. So you need to get everything stabilized, and cured rock hard before you try to repair the damage.

Joel

Edited September 21, 2015 by Joel_W

[chuck540z3]

1st and foremost you should really leave everything as is until you're sure that the Goop has completely dried and cured, and that plastic has also done the same. How long that will take, I have no idea. But as you said, LS can takes months to fully cure.

Joel

Yes, that was my first thought, because I've experienced the same thing before. On my A-10 build I repaired a wingtip that had LS issues about 5 times because it just kept on changing, even months later.

One thing for sure, is that I won't use GOOP again unless I'm sure I actually need it and that I can control the outcome. In hindsight if I had known, I should have used ordinary silicone caulking to hold the weights, which does not harm plastic.

[wardog]

Hey Chuck. ....sorry about the setback. .....it's the unknown gotchas I really hate about this hobby. As a suggestion and probably how I would go about fixing some of the affected areas is to simply cut out the bad sections and graft in a chunk of leftover resin with super glue and sand smooth. Depending on how big the area is, getting the contour or mold line correct can be challenging but it seems like LS keeps whooping you up a bit so you might be asking for more problems by continuing to use it. I think the modeling gods are trying to tell you to leave that stuff alone....LOL. Well regardless of what method you choose....GOOD LUCK!

Elmo

[The Madhatter]

Maybe buy some liquid resin (the 2 part stuff) and spoon a small amount into the depressions. Once dried, sand and detail as you normally do.

I've never heard of GOOP before now, so if I find any, I'll leave it well alone.

Good luck with the repairs wth which ever method you use

[kike]

It may sound crazy but how hard would it be to cut the whole panel and replace it with plasticard? or maybe there is an option in photoetched for when ppl want to leave those doors open? is there a replacement nose on resin? just throwing some ideas

[chuck540z3]

Well boys, it's time to go to the lab and do a few experiments!

Although it doesn't matter any more, I NEED to know if the GOOP adhesive just ate the plastic or it was the lack of ventilation that caused the problem. To test this, I just smeared a thick gob onto some Trumpeter plastic to see what happens in a few days. Stay tuned!

The next thing I tested was to see if Tamiya Light Curing Putty (TLCP) might be my magic bullet, because I've always known it was a bit soft and might take a scriber or rivet tool without cracking.

Here's the scrap plastic with a depression ground into it. Note the pin mark to the right.

I then put a nice gob of TLCP on it as well.

After sanding, it filled the depressions fairly well and took the scriber and rivet tool without chipping. Here it is with a dark wash to reveal any flaws. There is some leakage at the top where the needle hole made the putty pop away from the plastic, probably because it was so thin, while the bottom looks pretty good.

Does anybody have some first hand experience using TLCP? It seems to work, but I'm worried about adhesion and noticeable margins to the putty.

Edited September 22, 2015 by chuck540z3