Bigasshammm Posted May 27, 2016 Share Posted May 27, 2016 Why did it take this long to come out? It was plainly written so shouldn't someone have said something when the book came out? Or the movie? I don't rightly believe anything in the media anymore so who knows if what they say is true? Couldn't he have won more awards secretly for missions that are classified and therefore won't get the recognition until everything is declassified? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TaiidanTomcat Posted May 27, 2016 Share Posted May 27, 2016 That's the part I don't get, silver star and 3 bronze stars. Yet still felt the need to embellish (lie). Even after it was brought to his attention by his peers. Kinda hard to throw the "stolen valor" flag on this one and yet.. Also funny that the article states that his command didn't want to force the issue due to PR considerations. When did this become a factor in the enforcement of regulations? Were they concerned that it would impact book sales? SEALs seem to have a different mindset on issues like this compared to the guys in other services. I think it's kind of the USN. SEALs are very unconventional to the navyS normal units and they make up a disproportionate amount of recruiting Quote Link to post Share on other sites
11bee Posted May 27, 2016 Share Posted May 27, 2016 Couldn't he have won more awards secretly for missions that are classified and therefore won't get the recognition until everything is declassified? One article touched on this. The author said he held off releasing the info for that very reason. Once it was determined that there were no awards for classified ops, then he published his story. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
hawkwrench Posted May 27, 2016 Share Posted May 27, 2016 I don't normally chime in too much, but apparently there are awards for classified ops. Senior chief Edward Byers was awarded the MOH on a hostage rescue mission. You can't tell me HR's aren't classified! I think it's bull that these guys put their lives on the line and do things we will never know about and they aren't awarded? Way to go Chief Byers!!! JM2CW! Tim Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nspreitler Posted May 27, 2016 Share Posted May 27, 2016 I have no doubt Kyle acted with valor. However, I don't understand the mentality of many SEALs that feel the need to announce how awesome they think they are. Army SF are known as "Quiet Professionals", but SEALs seem to love to talk about themselves. Kyle's book was okay, but the movie was pure fiction though and not a convincing story. The same with Marcus Luttrell and his book which was a huge exaggeration, and the movie even more so. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
niart17 Posted May 27, 2016 Share Posted May 27, 2016 ...The same with Marcus Luttrell and his book which was a huge exaggeration, and the movie even more so. Pretty easy thing to claim while sitting on a couch typing on a computer. He's going to be at the Red Neck country club in Houston this weekend to honor his fallen friends. Perhaps you could go have a discussion about his exaggerations. Bill Quote Link to post Share on other sites
11bee Posted May 27, 2016 Share Posted May 27, 2016 I don't normally chime in too much, but apparently there are awards for classified ops. Agreed but if his chain of command was telling him to fix his medal count, I'm pretty sure they would have been aware of any awards for a classified op. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
11bee Posted May 27, 2016 Share Posted May 27, 2016 Pretty easy thing to claim while sitting on a couch typing on a computer. He's going to be at the Red Neck country club in Houston this weekend to honor his fallen friends. Perhaps you could go have a discussion about his exaggerations. Bill How about instead, maybe he should have a discussion with the parents of Michael Murphy who feel that the guy threw their son under the bus with his depiction of the mission. Read the links Bill. I'm not making the claims, others are, including service members. If you want to believe the movie is factual have at it. Same goes for the book. What's that saying about what the first casualty in war is? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nspreitler Posted May 27, 2016 Share Posted May 27, 2016 (edited) Pretty easy thing to claim while sitting on a couch typing on a computer. He's going to be at the Red Neck country club in Houston this weekend to honor his fallen friends. Perhaps you could go have a discussion about his exaggerations. Bill Maybe he could go talk to Mohammed Gulab. http://www.newsweek.com/2016/05/20/mohammad-gulab-marcus-luttrell-navy-seal-lone-survivor-operation-red-wings-458139.html I don't doubt he mourns the loss of his team, but his story is still just that a story. I know a lot of guys that are heroes, but they didn't write a book or exaggerate their actions. So he is going to be and Redneck Country Club where he is going to honor his friends, I didn't see that listed but in the past anyone could go see him honor his friends for about $55 a ticket. Edited May 27, 2016 by nspreitler Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Don Posted May 27, 2016 Share Posted May 27, 2016 These issues have come up far too often with authors and writers of books on their service in Vietnam. Embellishments, false claims of actions and awards and downright lying about having been in Vietnam or the branch of service that they have written about (SEALS, SF, LRRP's, etc). Go onto Amazon and look at some of the comment sections about books written by LRRP's, Force Recon, SF, and SEALS...entertaining. I have no comment on the claims of Luttrell or in American Sniper. But considering the war on terror has gone on for so long, with so many service members having taken part, it stands to reason that eventually some people will...bend the truth...for financial gains. Sad, but nothing new. Again, I am not referring to the servicemen mentioned in this thread, just saying that its happened before. As an aside, if you want to see disgusting examples of real stolen valor that get soundly busted, go onto Youtube and type in "Stolen Valor". Makes my blood boil and makes me laugh at the same time. God Bless all service members from all freedom loving nations...and THANKS! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TaiidanTomcat Posted May 27, 2016 Share Posted May 27, 2016 I have no doubt Kyle acted with valor. However, I don't understand the mentality of many SEALs that feel the need to announce how awesome they think they are. Army SF are known as "Quiet Professionals", but SEALs seem to love to talk about themselves. Kyle's book was okay, but the movie was pure fiction though and not a convincing story. The same with Marcus Luttrell and his book which was a huge exaggeration, and the movie even more so. Again I think the army and Marines which have copious amounts of grunts and special grunts are more able to hoist the BS flag. Where as the navy is filled with sailors. Not grunts. At one point people Are going to have to realize that human beings don't always fit into nice neat categories of good and bad. Plenty of heros out there that also drink too much, beat their wives, lie, cheat and steal. I'm not excusing it, I'm just pointing out that if you expect perfection of humans you will be disappointed. A great one true king once said that the bad doesn't erase the good nor the good the bad. And when you are talking about The fog of war, eyewitness accounts, and memory. Details will be lost. No one knows exactly how many bad guys attacked Luttrells unit. But even a platoon of around 30 vs 4 trapped people is pretty lopsided. Talking like an 8:1 ratio. That's plenty scary, but no I don't believe it was the ever growing number of "hundreds" Quote Link to post Share on other sites
niart17 Posted May 27, 2016 Share Posted May 27, 2016 So he is going to be and Redneck Country Club where he is going to honor his friends, I didn't see that listed but in the past anyone could go see him honor his friends for about $55 a ticket. That's kind of the point of a charity event. The money is used to support the families of fallen brothers. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nspreitler Posted May 27, 2016 Share Posted May 27, 2016 That's kind of the point of a charity event. The money is used to support the families of fallen brothers. Luttrell is a millionaire, so not everything is going to charity. He served and lived through a horrible situation, but then claimed they were attacked by 200 Taliban when the reality is more like 10. His story would be impressive just the way it happened, there is zero reason to embellish it. That's what I have an issue with. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
niart17 Posted May 27, 2016 Share Posted May 27, 2016 Luttrell is a millionaire, so not everything is going to charity. He served and lived through a horrible situation, but then claimed they were attacked by 200 Taliban when the reality is more like 10. His story would be impressive just the way it happened, there is zero reason to embellish it. That's what I have an issue with. Sorry, I'm really not trying to attack you personally and I hope it didn't come across that way. I just think that it's pretty hard to criticize a guy who's done what he's done. That's all. Have a great Memorial Day and peace be with you. Bill Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nspreitler Posted May 27, 2016 Share Posted May 27, 2016 (edited) Sorry, I'm really not trying to attack you personally and I hope it didn't come across that way. I just think that it's pretty hard to criticize a guy who's done what he's done. That's all. Have a great Memorial Day and peace be with you. Bill No worries, I understand people objecting to criticizing people like Kyle and Luttrell, but I think they should be looked at. Like TT said heroic actions don't make someone infallible. Edited May 27, 2016 by nspreitler Quote Link to post Share on other sites
11bee Posted May 28, 2016 Share Posted May 28, 2016 Have a great Memorial Day and peace be with you. I think everyone can agree on that. Regardless of the rest of those issues, both guys served their country and they are heroes (as is every other grunt that deployed to those sh*tholes). Way too many people these days wouldn't ever consider signing up. Happy Memorial Day guys. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TaiidanTomcat Posted May 28, 2016 Share Posted May 28, 2016 In lutrells case I think you really need to look into what happened just to make sure the mistakes that lead to the deaths of so many people don't happen again-- so as unfortunate as it is you need to find and correct mistakes made by good and brave people. Now you could say "Fine, but thats up to the operators. Not us TT. You weren't there so STFU" ok thats fair. It drives me batty when keyboard fighter pilots talk about the F-35. so I get it. Mistakes were made and they need to be corrected in house and who am i to question? However. IMHO once you write a book for the public, the public can question you. You opened the door. Especially if it makes you money and gets you fame, and even spawns a Mark E Mark movie that gets other people more money and more fame. If that story turns out to be untrue, well that sounds an awful lot like lying people to get their money and adulation. And that is not acceptable. The longer you are under the lights, the longer people can look and find cracks and flaws Quote Link to post Share on other sites
adamitri Posted May 28, 2016 Share Posted May 28, 2016 Concerning Kyles Silver Stars and his PTSD etc... his DD Form 214 did say 2 Silver Stars. Maybe he just looked at it and forgot that he only got one ? Maybe ? I know that on my 214, there were missing awards/ribbons and it took a better part of 2 days to get it fixed (read still messed up but better than it was). Quote Link to post Share on other sites
11bee Posted May 29, 2016 Share Posted May 29, 2016 However. IMHO once you write a book for the public, the public can question you. You opened the door. Especially if it makes you money and gets you fame, and even spawns a Mark E Mark movie that gets other people more money and more fame. If that story turns out to be untrue, well that sounds an awful lot like lying people to get their money and adulation. And that is not acceptable. The longer you are under the lights, the longer people can look and find cracks and flaws ^^^^ This. Coincidentally, I met an older gentleman at a cookout today. After talking to him most of the afternoon, he mentioned in passing that he was a Korean War vet. It took a bit prying but he finally told me that he was a 20 year old Marine rifleman when his company was decimated at the Chosin Reservoir in North Korea. He was wounded a few weeks into the retreat. Didn't have a lot to say about his experiences other than how cold they all were and a funny story about being chased around a Japanese town when he and a bunch of his buddies skipped out of the hospital in search of a drink. He did say that out of the close to 300 men who shipped out of Camp Pendleton in 1950 for Korea, less than a dozen of the original members of his company made it out of Chosin in one piece. The rest were KIA, wounded or missing. A quiet, classy guy and somehow he didn't feel the need to write an inaccurate book or sell the screenplay rights for a mostly fictional movie about his experiences. He didn't charge me any money to listen to his story either. I'll remember this gentleman long after I've forgotten American Sniper or Lone Survivor. If anyone wants to hear a war story, forget crap like that and go down to your local VFW and buy a vet a beer. You never know what you might learn. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DarkKnight Posted May 29, 2016 Share Posted May 29, 2016 its another attempt by a biased media to beat down our heroes. Why would he lie? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Hoops Posted May 29, 2016 Share Posted May 29, 2016 Couldn't he have won more awards secretly for missions that are classified and therefore won't get the recognition until everything is declassified? It doesn't work that way. If you receive an award while on a "classified mission" it's still in your record. The write-up just says something really vanilla like: "For actions between May 27 and May 29" and nothing more. The whole "classified mission so it's not in my record" bit is a fairy tale no matter who says it. It's a red flag if you ever run into somebody in a bar claiming such things. Hoops Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Hoops Posted May 29, 2016 Share Posted May 29, 2016 its another attempt by a biased media to beat down our heroes. Why would he lie? To increase the impact and prestige of his own story? Why do fishermen say that the fish they caught were bigger than they actually were? Remember he also claimed that: - In the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina, he traveled to New Orleans and killed about thirty "looters" from a perch on top of the Superdome. - In 2009, he shot and killed two individuals who attempted to steal his truck and was released by police without questioning due to the intercession of the Department of Defense. Both of these claims are proven as false, stretching credibility to begin with. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nspreitler Posted May 29, 2016 Share Posted May 29, 2016 its another attempt by a biased media to beat down our heroes. Why would he lie? Perhaps to sell books, and to be a celebrity. I don't know why he would lie, but we do know that he did lie about his encounter with Ventura, actions after Katrina, and other incidents. There are plenty of heroes that haven't lied about their accomplishments, and while Kyle was a hero he tarnished his own reputation by making false claims. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Don Posted May 29, 2016 Share Posted May 29, 2016 We need Brian Williams to investigate... ... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
streetstream Posted May 29, 2016 Share Posted May 29, 2016 We need Brian Williams to investigate... :whistle:/>... If he recalls right, he was with Chris on the perch on top of the Superdome after Katrina. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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