Joel_W Posted November 26, 2017 Share Posted November 26, 2017 I just became aware of another new line of paints for military modeling: True Color. Now I'm not questioning how good the paints are, nor the completeness/accuracy of their colors. What I'm questioning is do we really need another line of model paints? The paint business must be a bottomless pit as it seems that every year we get 1-3 new lines of paint all claiming to be the best of the best. Most are Acrylics, and now Lacquer based paints are making a strong comeback. Do we really need all these various paint lines? I buy most of my modeling supplies from Sprue Brothers and ScaleHobbyist.com, and they each carry a min of a dozen lines or more of paint, yet most of the these newer companies have a few at best resources in the USA from places with less then stellar quick turn around service, and the few times I've reached out to them, their out of stocks were as bad if not worse then the usual paint resources I use. My honest question is do we really need anymore model paint lines, as most vendors can't or won't carry additional lines that will never sell well enough to justify carrying them. My answer is we're already way past that line. Joel Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Johnopfor Posted November 26, 2017 Share Posted November 26, 2017 (edited) Actually, Tru-Color has been around since 2008 doing railroad and auto colors, they just started going into military colors earlier this year. I managed to pick up a few bottles for the F-22 and F-35 while I was at the Leavenworth KS contest earlier this year. I am very interested if the F-22 colors are comparable to the Raptor Sheen colors that Hawkeye used to have before they closed up shop. I haven't tried using them yet because I'm trying to get more information about thinners and airbrush use. Besides, if they are good, $5.00 for a 1 ounce bottle compared to about $4.00 for a 1/2 ounce bottle of Model Master paint makes it a nice deal. Edited November 26, 2017 by Johnopfor Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Spruemeister Posted November 26, 2017 Share Posted November 26, 2017 Looking forward to the Tru Color line of military paints. It's very encouraging that they are actively soliciting modeler's opinions on what paint colors to produce. Rick L. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Joel_W Posted November 26, 2017 Author Share Posted November 26, 2017 15 minutes ago, Johnopfor said: Actually, Tru-Color has been around since 2008 doing railroad and auto colors, they just started going into military colors earlier this year. I managed to pick up a few bottles for the F-22 and F-35 while I was at the Leavenworth KS contest earlier this year. I am very interested if the F-22 colors are comparable to the Raptor Sheen colors that Hawkeye used to have before they closed up shop. I haven't tried using them yet because I'm trying to get more information about thinners and airbrush use. Besides, if they are good, $5.00 for a 1 ounce bottle compared to about $4.00 for a 1/2 ounce bottle of Model Master paint makes it a nice deal. John, I knew that they're weren't a full start up paint company, but they're a new military paint line as I stated. Like I said, we really don't need another line of paints. Any color you can imagine is already available if not in one line then from another main stream line with the same base. They've stated quite clearly that they don't have many hobby shops or online resources, so getting them and keeping them in stock are two issues you should be concerned about. As an example of costs Tamiya's 23ml bottles cost less then $5 per bottle. an oz equates to 30 ml so it's close enough for me. Joel Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Joel_W Posted November 26, 2017 Author Share Posted November 26, 2017 11 minutes ago, Spruemeister said: Looking forward to the Tru Color line of military paints. It's very encouraging that they are actively soliciting modeler's opinions on what paint colors to produce. Rick L. Rick, It's nice that they're asking what colors you're interested in, but that has almost nothing to do with the need for another line of paint. Like I said, you can get just about any color needed if one company doesn't have it another will with the same base type. Take a look at Akan and Hataka paints. Two new companies with a huge line of military colors. Yet, both are really hard to come by. As of now Akan paints are only available from them located in NJ. Go count the number of lines of paint that Sprue Brothers as an example carries. Do you think that they're interested in yet another line of paints? when I asked them, they actually said that they'd like to carry less lines, as they take up a lot of space for little return. Honestly, over the last few years, I've been trying to reduce the lines and number of bottles I model with. Right now I have well over 100 bottles of paint just on my paint stand with more stored away. Joel Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Johnopfor Posted November 26, 2017 Share Posted November 26, 2017 4 minutes ago, Joel_W said: John, I knew that they're weren't a full start up paint company, but they're a new military paint line as I stated. Like I said, we really don't need another line of paints. Any color you can imagine is already available if not in one line then from another main stream line with the same base. They've stated quite clearly that they don't have many hobby shops or online resources, so getting them and keeping them in stock are two issues you should be concerned about. As an example of costs Tamiya's 23ml bottles cost less then $5 per bottle. an oz equates to 30 ml so it's close enough for me. Joel I don't see any problem with having another line of paints around, specially one who tries to replicate the F-22 colors. I have already found a local hobby shop in Omaha that carries the line and a distributor in Lincoln. I haven't "invested" in the line yet, but with Testors cutting their MM line, I would like to find a back-up source and not worry about getting paint that is subject to constantly changing EPA importation regulations. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Joel_W Posted November 26, 2017 Author Share Posted November 26, 2017 1 minute ago, Johnopfor said: I don't see any problem with having another line of paints around, specially one who tries to replicate the F-22 colors. I have already found a local hobby shop in Omaha that carries the line and a distributor in Lincoln. I haven't "invested" in the line yet, but with Testors cutting their MM line, I would like to find a back-up source and not worry about getting paint that is subject to constantly changing EPA importation regulations. John, too many lines equates to resources having to decide which lines to carry or not carry, not figuring out where and how to increase they're allotted space. I don't use Model Master paints since I stopped using enamels years ago, and after trying their acrylic line, once was way more then enough. the paint was just terrible as it stuck to absolutely nothing including their acrylic primer. Testors is just decreasing the line to what sells. do I agree with that, not really, but they have their other Testors line that is in every hobby shop, and every retail store that sells models including Walmart. Enamels aren't in vogue these days. the majority of modelers use Tamiya paints, and mix what colors they need. Joel Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Johnopfor Posted November 26, 2017 Share Posted November 26, 2017 5 minutes ago, Joel_W said: John, too many lines equates to resources having to decide which lines to carry or not carry, not figuring out where and how to increase they're allotted space. I don't use Model Master paints since I stopped using enamels years ago, and after trying their acrylic line, once was way more then enough. the paint was just terrible as it stuck to absolutely nothing including their acrylic primer. Testors is just decreasing the line to what sells. do I agree with that, not really, but they have their other Testors line that is in every hobby shop, and every retail store that sells models including Walmart. Enamels aren't in vogue these days. the majority of modelers use Tamiya paints, and mix what colors they need. Joel Well, that problem is up to the distributors and hobby shops, it's their choice to carry the line or not. You can also order the paints directly from Tru-Color. I stick with MM enamels because I like them and it's too expensive for me to just switch over to another line....I have plenty of the reciently cancelled Camoflauge Grey to last a long while. I don't worry myself with the current "paint fashion", I'll stick with what I like until I can't anymore.....then I will look for a replacement for what's not available. But again, another paint line allows for more choice. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Joel_W Posted November 27, 2017 Author Share Posted November 27, 2017 John, That was my point from the beginning, and most of the online vendors won't as they've passed on basically one new paint line after another. I never said to replace what you already have, but sooner or later you'll run out of colors or they'll dry up in the jars. Worry about it then. My original point was and still is that we don't need another new line of paint. This would be the 3rd one in the last 2 years, and none has taken off. Joel Quote Link to post Share on other sites
modelingbob Posted November 27, 2017 Share Posted November 27, 2017 IMNSHO, the more paint choices we have, the better off we are as modelers. And there is always some need for a new brand of paint in specific colors. For example, I'm a big Mr Color fan, but they don't really offer any out of the bottle matches in some colors (for instance, Soviet AF). So, I need another paint brand to step in and produce that color. MRP stepped up and produced some killer Soviet colors so I purchased them. I don't expect every paint manufacturer to produce every color possible as that's unrealistic, so I'll shop around to find the colors I need. As far as vendors not stocking every brand, I also understand that reality. But, while I would like to purchase from specific vendors, if they choose not to stock that product that I need, I have no problems purchasing it from someone else. I'm all for more new lines of paints! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Joel_W Posted November 27, 2017 Author Share Posted November 27, 2017 8 hours ago, modelingbob said: IMNSHO, the more paint choices we have, the better off we are as modelers. And there is always some need for a new brand of paint in specific colors. For example, I'm a big Mr Color fan, but they don't really offer any out of the bottle matches in some colors (for instance, Soviet AF). So, I need another paint brand to step in and produce that color. MRP stepped up and produced some killer Soviet colors so I purchased them. I don't expect every paint manufacturer to produce every color possible as that's unrealistic, so I'll shop around to find the colors I need. As far as vendors not stocking every brand, I also understand that reality. But, while I would like to purchase from specific vendors, if they choose not to stock that product that I need, I have no problems purchasing it from someone else. I'm all for more new lines of paints! Bob, while as modelers, we'd all like to see a huge selection from as many companies as possible whether it be paints, models, AM, decals, etc. The larger the selection of companies, the more colors and nations are offered at reduced prices. Good for us, bad for them and the retailers if they're not the vendor as well. They will reach a point where it is no longer viable nor profitable to be in the model paint business. Since the market is small and is if anything here in North America shrinking not growing, their slice of the pie only gets smaller as another paint company opens shop. The same holds true for the retailer having to buy new lines of paint, and yet their sales don't increase at nearly the same percentage of investment in that category. Hence, the major online retailers rarely carry new lines or full lines unless it fills a needed nitch. I've asked Sprue Brothers on a few occasions about carrying such and such paints, and the answer is always the same, they have more then enough lines, but they do expand into the nitch markets like Metal finishes, filters, washes, and pigments as the hobby needs change. As for finding different vendors who carry the lines of paints you're looking for, I've found that buying just a few bottles of paint with shipping becomes quite expensive. I guess I'm still old school, but back when it was basically just Tamiya and Model Master, those of us preferring not to go back to enamels learned to mix colors with the basic Tamiya paints. IPMS Sweden for example has dozens of paint mixes listed. Just as an example over the last few years and just the new lines of paint companies I can recall is rather long: Akan, Mission Paints, MRP, AK Interactive , True Color, Hataka, and I'm sure that I left out quite a few. At this point with the saturation of paint companies I'm fairly confident that whatever color you're looking for, it's made, you just have to go and find who makes it, and who carries that line. Joel Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Alvis 3.1 Posted November 27, 2017 Share Posted November 27, 2017 Speaking from a Brick and Mortar retail point of view, another line of paint always poses a problem. Space is limited, and you have to balance the space it will take up with the sales you think it will generate. It's a problem where I work, as we carry Humbrol, Testors, Model Master Enamel and Acrylic, Tamiya, and 5 distinct lines of Vallejo, and there isn't really much more room for another line of paint, unless we drop something. Problem is that all of them are currently selling well. Alvis 3.1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tosa Posted November 27, 2017 Share Posted November 27, 2017 The question weather we need another model paint line or not can not be answered without considering how good the paints are, how accurate and how complete they are... Different modelers base their preference on different qualities in paints. Some modelers don't want to waste time mixing their paints. Some modelers consider ready made paints more accurate than a home made brew. Anything that is improvement to the current offer, be it a model, paint line, you name it, is welcome. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
HistnScale Posted November 27, 2017 Share Posted November 27, 2017 Seems like TruColor came into being to fill the void left by the demise of Floquil with the RR guys. I expect the RR community appreciated the new line. Expanding into military colors would just be a logical extension of their business model just as Floquil did years ago. Dave Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Stinger16 Posted November 27, 2017 Share Posted November 27, 2017 Who needs another line of paints when we have Mr. Paint MRP. In my opinion, the best paints I have ever used. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
modelingbob Posted November 27, 2017 Share Posted November 27, 2017 MRP is a fantastic paint, no doubt about it. But here in the USA it's very expensive. And it also doesn't brush paint very well. So...................................... the perfect paint has still not yet been invented and there is still room for more/better paint brands!!!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Joel_W Posted November 27, 2017 Author Share Posted November 27, 2017 5 minutes ago, modelingbob said: MRP is a fantastic paint, no doubt about it. But here in the USA it's very expensive. And it also doesn't brush paint very well. So...................................... the perfect paint has still not yet been invented and there is still room for more/better paint brands!!!! Bob, I use MRP primarily for interiors as they have all the various WW11 colors I need. The paint is pre-thinned like the True Color paints are for air brushing, which seems to be in vogue these days. Joel Quote Link to post Share on other sites
southwestforests Posted December 1, 2017 Share Posted December 1, 2017 On 11/27/2017 at 4:43 PM, Joel_W said: The paint is pre-thinned ... for air brushing, which seems to be in vogue these days. Are you sure that shouldn't be written, "The paint is pre-thinned ... for air brushing, which seems to be annoyingly in vogue these days." Also true in model railroading paints. And equally annoying. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Joel_W Posted December 1, 2017 Author Share Posted December 1, 2017 37 minutes ago, southwestforests said: Are you sure that shouldn't be written, "The paint is pre-thinned ... for air brushing, which seems to be annoyingly in vogue these days." Also true in model railroading paints. And equally annoying. Not so much annoying, but thinner is dirt cheap. I rather have a full bottle of paint, and thin as needed. Pre-thinned is half as much paint for the same price. Just another rip off of us modelers. Joel Quote Link to post Share on other sites
modelingbob Posted December 1, 2017 Share Posted December 1, 2017 I have to say I agree 100% with Joel & SWF. I don't understand the attraction of pre-thinned paint and I'd rather do it myself. After all, I can always add thinner to paint that's too thick, but I can't really make it thicker like I might want to for brush painting. I really like MRP for airbrushing, but I sure can't brush paint it very well. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
southwestforests Posted December 5, 2017 Share Posted December 5, 2017 Airbrushing tangent. I can't give a percentage number for how much thinner I add to paint to airbrush. I mix only small batches at a time (and haven't airbrushed for about three years now) and have a round paintbrush I stir with - when mix drips off brush a certain way I know it is about right consistency. Have noticed some colors seem to take more or less thinning than other colors; gloss takes more than flat; clear gloss takes a bunch. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Scooby Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 Competition is good, monopolies suck. Keep the cost down and they each compete for accuracy. It’s a good thing. If we only had one choice we be dependent on that one line. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Joel_W Posted December 9, 2017 Author Share Posted December 9, 2017 9 hours ago, Scooby said: Competition is good, monopolies suck. Keep the cost down and they each compete for accuracy. It’s a good thing. If we only had one choice we be dependent on that one line. Scooby, I wasn't referring to a monopoly as there are way to many paints companies as it is. I've found it a pain in the butt to locate who carries what, and then order only what you need that may not even equal the cost of shipping. The profit margins in paint are astronomical, and apparently getting into the paint business isn't at difficult. You can purchase paint bases, and various pigments. And the computer equipment to determine mixes for colors are available. So it's far easier to open a paint company then any other type of company in the plastic modeling market. Joel Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Spruemeister Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 So keep the market to a few non-expanding paint lines, so that retailers can easily stock them and keep their overhead low, thereby holding down prices on paint lines that are incomplete and not drawing orders. Shouldn't be a problem because as we all know, everybody custom mixes their own colors from those paint lines anyway. Or should be. No, I know its not really like that. You have to be careful of blanket statements anyway. I have found that this is a big hobby and that blankets rarely stretch far enough to cover it all. This issue isn't worth arguing about. It's like the whole "my scale is better than your scale" thing. Bugs the crap out of me when I hear that junk. I have so little time to build with any regularity these days its best to spend my time at the bench doing what I want to do, and not trying to alienate a portion of the hobby we are trying to grow. If a new industry partner wants to risk their own capital in a venture to serve the hobby and make a profit at it, I'm fine. If I have need of their product I'm in. Virtual soapbox, off. Rick L. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Joel_W Posted December 10, 2017 Author Share Posted December 10, 2017 Rick, I never said that the existing lines shouldn't expand their colors. Tamiya is about the only line that doesn't do it regularly. Their reasoning is that the retail racks won't hold any more colors and the LHS don't wan to spend a few hundred on a new rack. I would assume that online retailers would have the room for expanding lines as they bin and shelf not rack. I've been mixing Tamiya colors for years and just never had an issue doing it. I'm not looking at it from the new paint manufacturer perspective as the profits can be huge. I'm looking at it from the retailers point of view. I suggest that those not familiar with the number of lines of paints carried by both Sprue Brothers and Scalehobbyist.com checkout their sites. Between the two, they have all the major lines covered. Joel Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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