New 1/72 MiG-19 kits from KP

[caughtinthemiddle]

...had their premiere at Plastic Winter show in Bratislava last weekend. Here are the inbox reviews of two of three available boxings:
https://www.kfs-miniatures.com/1-72-mig-19s-farmer-c-kp/
https://www.kfs-miniatures.com/1-72-shenyang-f-6c-farmer-c-late-kp/

[janman]

Had missed this altogether. Wow, finally a new MiG-19!

[Murph]

Cool, I had seen these in the Future Releases at Hannants and was hoping they weren't just reboxings.

 

Regards,

Murph

[f5guy]

Nice! I've been looking forward to this one! I just started the old Bilek kit, but may have to junk it in favor of one of these new kits......  Fred K.

[lulldapull]

The nose intake cowl lip looks thin. My suspicions are it is the smaller Bilek one reworked by Kp. I recently finished a kit bash of sorts on the Bilek kit with the fuselage section just ahead of the windshield taken from the old KP kit. The old Kp nose/ intake is far more accurate than the Bilek's tapered and small dia intake. Until I have this new kit in hand I should do a comparison, but I already have my suspicions. 

 

Now........where is that elusive Trumpeter one?

Edited December 20, 2019 by lulldapull

[ya-gabor]

I have the kit from Plastikova Zima show. It cost 16 Euro. There were several different boxing of the kit with alternative decals of course.

 

Had few words with the maker and he insisted that it is an all new CAD based kit with metal production tools. Looking at the parts I am not convinced of this. There are engraved panel lines, with only the most needed panel quick locks / screws added on them. In places the lines and surface details look “unsteady”, there are some surface problem like one would see on a limited run set. Over all it looks “handmade”.

The only big shrinkage I noticed is of course on the complex engine exhaust. It is not easy to get this right for any manufacturer. It would be no problem to correct this with some filler.

 

This kit is certainly not the old KP and has little resemblance to any other kit. I have seen somewhere that the price already dropped by a couple of Euros so in long run it will be an affordable kids kit in my opinion, just as the original KP release was back all those millenniums ago.

 

It will take its place in the stash with an “unlikely to build” sign on it.

 

Have to add that looking at some enthusiastic reviews of the Airbrix’s new MiG-17F kit I would not be surprised if many Westerners would love this kit too. Fortunately tastes differ! : )   : )

 

Best regards

Gabor

[lulldapull]

2 hours ago, ya-gabor said:

Gabor, thanks for the comments, but if you have the patience, please take the nose cowl and compare if side by side with the bilek and the old Kp one.......you will blow the lid on the truth. Also it is a mystery that Zvezda or even modelsvit hasn't got this thing on its radar, and the trumpeter one has gone down a black hole.

 

 

 

 

 

I have the kit from Plastikova Zima show. It cost 16 Euro. There were several different boxing of the kit with alternative decals of course.

 

Had few words with the maker and he insisted that it is an all new CAD based kit with metal production tools. Looking at the parts I am not convinced of this. There are engraved panel lines, with only the most needed panel quick locks / screws added on them. In places the lines and surface details look “unsteady”, there are some surface problem like one would see on a limited run set. Over all it looks “handmade”.

The only big shrinkage I noticed is of course on the complex engine exhaust. It is not easy to get this right for any manufacturer. It would be no problem to correct this with some filler.

 

This kit is certainly not the old KP and has little resemblance to any other kit. I have seen somewhere that the price already dropped by a couple of Euros so in long run it will be an affordable kids kit in my opinion, just as the original KP release was back all those millenniums ago.

 

It will take its place in the stash with an “unlikely to build” sign on it.

 

Have to add that looking at some enthusiastic reviews of the Airbrix’s new MiG-17F kit I would not be surprised if many Westerners would love this kit too. Fortunately tastes differ! : )   : )

 

Best regards

Gabor

 

Edited December 20, 2019 by lulldapull

[ya-gabor]

Sorry I don’t at hand the KP and I never had the Bilek version only seen as a “quest” on my workbench for inspection. So could not do comparison. Sorry!

 

But here is what I brought with me from Plastikova Zima. The kit box and what is inside. Took some photos after the show but did not post it as there was little if any interest at all. And I was far more preoccupied with the test building the brand new Eduard MiG-21PFM.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Best regards

Gabor

[lulldapull]

Many thanks for the clear pics Gabor.......much appreciated. I will buy this once it shows up on Hannants.

[ya-gabor]

Here are some close ups of the kit. All I can do is to show what the kit looks like, everyone can make up their own mind about it. 

There is some good news and some bad ones too. 

Where should I start?

 

I like that they have opened up the front ends (so to say) of the numerous small intakes. It adds a bit of realism to the kit.

 

 

Some of the surface details. For the start the intake ring.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The kit is not for beginners, there are no location pins for the small parts, just the area where they go is indicated. 

 

 

 

 

Some of the "bad news"

 

 

 

 

 

 

And the "ejection seat" : (   : (   : (

 

 

Best regards

Gabor

 

[lulldapull]

This is probably the best 1/72 Mig-19/ F-6 on the market right now. Having looked at that nose intake cowl, that looks to be a new design by Kp. Even the bifurcation is included with the nose wheel well which forms when put together. Very nice indeed. I'd just use the Pavla KK-2 or a MB PKD-10 if doing a late model F-6.

 

Here's a pic of my Bilek/ Kp cross breed:

 

 

Edited December 21, 2019 by lulldapull

[ya-gabor]

3 hours ago, lulldapull said:

I'd just use the Pavla KK-2 or a MB PKD-10 if doing a late model F-6.

 

Just a small historical correction I should add. THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS KK-1 OR KK-2 SEAT. This is a designation invented and I believe first published in Czech modelling publications.

The Mikojan OKB NEVER given this designation or any other for that matter! In all OKB documents the ejection seats are simply referred to it as Catapult Seat. It is interesting that the Russians are very meticulous and give designation to every bit of equipment (no matter how big it is) in an extremely precise way and it is used in all documentation for exact identification of every part of the aircraft!!! This is a standard engineering procedure in every part of the world!

 

But the ejection seat is referred in all MiG-15 manuals, technical documentations simply as the “Катапультируемое Сидение” or “Катапультируемое Кресло”. They never given to them any short names, abbreviations or numbers.

 

Actually the MiG designed seat in the MiG-15 went through many stages of development and there are considerable differences between the very first seats used and late models. So if giving names to them we should have had many, like: Mk.1.0,  Mark 1.1, Mark 1.2 and so on.

 

From this early design MiG-15 seat a completely new seat was born for later versions of the MiG-17. Only part of the frame remained but basically everything else was changed to improve safety. A new name was given to this seat by MiG OKB “Шторочное Сидение” or “Curtain” seat referring to the face curtain used on them.

 

With the introduction of the MiG-19 the seat was further developed incorporating amongst other things new manufacturing technology to simplify and make the seat even more safe. At the same time it retained the “Curtain” name just as the further developed version used on very first MiG-21 fighters.

 

Sorry for the off-topic but I think it is important to know the actual historic and technical background also.

 

Best regards

Gabor

[ya-gabor]

Speaking of the special custom designed ejection seat for Pakistan AF to replace the Russian seat (Chinese copy of the Russian seat). About 25 years ago I did produce this very unique seat from M-B documents  and it was in my range of PS products. But that was a very long time ago .  .  .

 

 

 

 

Best regards

Gabor

[lulldapull]

That's some good info Gabor. Never knew about them designations or the lack of them. Any chance you still have those MB's in your basement laying around? I can certainly buy a few. That head rest you have captured very well actually. I don't think the MB PKD 10 from Pavla looks nothing like what you created very accurately. The Pavla PKD 10 is suitable for doing a PAF Nanchang Q-5/ A-5C but not the PAF F-6.

[ya-gabor]

Thanks for the comment. I have never seen the Pavla seat so could not comment on it.

 

Only think I know that Pavla illegaly copied the KM-1M seat from Tim Perries PP Models set and sellig them to this day. Well some manufacturer do business this way . . .

 

Back in those  days, late 1980's early 1990's I did some seat masters for Tim Perry including the KM-1M and also Martin-Baker Mk.10 in two versions ( early with big headbox and the later standard one) as well as this Pakistan version. Back then it was easy to speak directly to M-B and get info from them on particular subjects.

This seat was an adaptation of the basic Mk.10 version not only the head box but many other things had to be changed, adapted so that it can fit into the MiG. It had some other special features, unique to the seat. 

 

Best regards

Gabor

[ya-gabor]

WOW!!! What a game was last night. Fallon Sherrock was great!         Almost doing a 9 dart as well. I think she now believes that she can do anything. Incredible play!!!

 

 

But what about this kit.

 

The original KP MiG-19 was not that bad, but you can say this of most kits. With lots of work and investment a nice kit was possible to be made from it. It all depends on modelling skills, time and money.  

 

In 1990’s I did a consecutive series of articles for a modelling publication about the KP kit. First it was a straight out of box kit (Czech paint scheme), the second a conversion with all sorts of detailing to make it more accurate and up to the standard I would have expected from a kit. It was a Pakistani 19 with a light grey finish. The third was an all-out rage with detailing and conversion of the MiG-19S to the radar equipped 19PM version. Of course it was a Hungarian version. Lot of research and several visits, photographing, measuring of the real aircraft was part of preparing for the project.

 

For the second and third kit dozens of new resin parts were manufactured including the Martin-Baker seat. New nose for the PM was made but also a detailed cockpit together with nose gear bay, open air brakes, wing fences, rudder, guns, engine exhausts . . . Masters for resin parts made.

 

 

On my Mac a photoetch set was designed and a new decal sheet also. A vac-formed canopy completed these multimedia conversion sets. The decal was screen printed by a very good friend Tibor Sinka (R.I.P.) and the brass was etched by a local company. All the small parts were on the etch set together with some extras to make the kit more realistic. Some markings were used from an excellent decal sheet which came together with Scale Aircraft Modelling mag on Pakistani AF. Those were the days! It was a lot of fun making these articles!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

On second and third versions all the lines and rivets were sanded down on KP plastic parts with panels added later.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

At the same time several other similar multimedia sets were prepared, for example a conversion to the Tumansky engine version of a Su-22M3 or the Electronic Warfare Mi-17PP helicopter. But all this was ages ago . . .

 

 

The question now is only what can be made of this new KP kit and how much work one will put into it.

 

 

Best regards

Gabor

[Pal]

Hi Gábor,

I am very happy to see these photos, I was amazed when the articles were published, still I have those magazines.

I keep the precious resin parts and also the perfect photo etched sheets with my KP MiG-19, hopefully it can be finished one day... in fact that was the time when our friendship started.

The sleek, elegant MiG-19 PM is on my wishlist since then.

Happy modelling! 🙂

Edited December 22, 2019 by Pal

[lulldapull]

Good posting here Gabor. Boy I bet a few around here took your masters and recreated the Bilek Mig-19 lineup some 15 odd years ago. That PAF Scale Modeling decal sheet is a rare commodity now. Wonder if anyone would be willing to recreate it.

[ya-gabor]

19 hours ago, lulldapull said:

 That PAF Scale Modeling decal sheet is a rare commodity now. 

 

And they were of excellent quality!!!  Scale Aircraft Modelling in those days had some fantastic articles, lots of research and perfect decals every now and then going free with the mag!

 

Best regards

Gabor

[lulldapull]

Gabor we need to request Steve to start a 72nd scale Russian and affiliated jet aircraft forum here because there is just too much clutter here for us folks who like 72nd and primarily Post WWII Soviet/ Chinese/ Russian only.......Cut out all the riff raff. Many of us have no interest in Western subjects anyway, why not get our own forum? I'm just throwing this out here.....as a suggestion because the genre is truly massive!

[madcop]

On 12/24/2019 at 10:39 PM, ya-gabor said:

 

And they were of excellent quality!!!  Scale Aircraft Modelling in those days had some fantastic articles, lots of research and perfect decals every now and then going free with the mag!

 

Best regards

Gabor

 

I kept all these little gems...Actually I have all SAM since VOL 1 N°1 until now........VOL 41. Must say these VOL take a lot of space on my  sheves but more in my 68 year's old heart !

Do you remember those South African North American T6 ?

Aaaaaah...those were the days my friend...

Madcop 🤔

[GeneK]

Gabor,

 

I just came across this thread while looking for reviews of the "new" KP MiG-19 ... and was amazed (as usual) by the detail and background you provided!! Thanks very much (as usual).

 

Gene K

[ya-gabor]

Hi Gene,

 

Thanks for the kind words. Without real nostalgia I can say those were the days of doing some kits. Had far more energy, more time and the range of subjects was endless. One only had to DO IT.

 

But what about that KP kit. At the very first opportunity I did buy one example at the Plasticova Zima show in Bratislava. KP people were there and reassured me that it is a brand new kit, all CAD technology and the highest quality possible.

 

Well, what is possible, it seems we have different definition. The decal sheet is terrible in my view. As to the kit, it is not much more than the original kit or at least the kit built from it. Mind you after purchase I had a detailed look at it, never built it but rather put it away in the stash as far as possible.

 

I am sure it could be a good starter kit for someone new to the hobby in a similar way as we tried to do a thing or two from the original KP kit all those almost 50 years ago.

Would I recommend the “brand new” KP kit, absolutely no.

 

But please don’t let me discourage you in any way. I had dug up some of the photos I took of the kit, so judge for yourself.

 

Yes, the kit is new in that it has engraved panel lines and none of those mushroom rivets of the original kit. It is visible on the kit parts that it has nothing to do with CAD. It is a good old traditional way of doing kits (which mind you did have some good sides to it). Interesting that on some parts one can see the joint line of parts (original plastic parts???) which during “master tool making” was not properly filled and sanded. This is not CAD for sure!!! 

 

 

The panel lines are in places vague and inconsistent. There are no location pins for most of the parts, in some cases just a small engraving shows where things should go.

 

 

Here are some more, some places it looks nice, but the rest . . .

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The ejection seat is a joke. I would say that even the “famous” Airfix MiG-17 kit has a much better seat.

 

 

 

 

The decal by the looks of it is a simple print. It has some of those ScaleAircraftModelling Pakistan AF decal reproductions that many people would love to have. I think this was the primary reason why I bought this particular kit from the several (four or more) available on first release few years back.  

 

 

 

 

I can only hope that some manufacturer out there one day will give the MiG-19 full justice with a real scale representation and state of the art design and tool making. Unfortunately it is almost certainly will not be Eduard. The Boss was asked many times about this and he refused to do anything with either the MiG-19 or the MiG-17 families of aircraft.

 

Have been asked from very different parts of the world if any of those resin / vac-form / photoetch / decal parts are still available that I did for detailing the plain original KP MiG-19 and the interceptor MiG-19PM. They were never sold under my name (or any other). They were just first trial pieces for a possible future sets. No instructions were ever made, it was all only in my head.  

 

Unfortunately only few bits and pieces survived all these decades, so was not able to help. Is there any chance for starting again these conversion sets? Absolutely not!!! Hungary is not a place to do cottage industry!  : (  : (

 

Best regards

Gabor

[Thadeus]

It's kind of shame they didn't make an all-new kit. This would make a MiG-19P a real possibility. I'd love to be able to get an ok-ish MiG-19P. Especially a one that is readilly available. Right now one has to find a Bilek kit.

[ya-gabor]

13 hours ago, Thadeus said:

It's kind of shame they didn't make an all-new kit. This would make a MiG-19P a real possibility. I'd love to be able to get an ok-ish MiG-19P. Especially a one that is readilly available. Right now one has to find a Bilek kit.

You are not the only one!!!! 

But not only the MiG-19P but ANY MiG-19 in state of the art CAD technology designed and produced kit would be most welcome!

 

Best regards

Gabor