Mi-8MT/Mi-17 from Annetra, Trumpeter & Zvezda in 48th scale

[cruiz]

AMK on pre-order at HLJ

 

https://www.hlj.com/1-48-scale-mi-17-hip-avgagm88010#

[Tigerfan112]

On 11/27/2022 at 5:54 PM, ya-gabor said:

Here is the decal sheet for the new AMK Annetra kit with three colour schemes for the first issue kit. They of course have two Czech paints schemes and one Macedon. As well as all the interior decals, appropriate airframe and rotor stencils, just as for pylon’s & weapon pod’s.

 

 

There is still some confusion as to where is this new kit is from. This is the Czech Annetra kit, for which all the tooling was made by AMK in China. Just as for example Airfix is not doing any of that dirty machining metal work at home but also gives it to the Chinese. 

If one looks at this Mi-17 boxart it will be perfectly clear that this kit now released is by AMK but you can also clearly see the Annetra name beside it!

 

 

Best regards

Gabor

Good work, so far (I have only got to Page 2) but the statement concerning Airfix is now incorrect. Tooling and production of the brand-new 1:24 Spitfire IX, for example, has been performed in the UK. This will only expand 

[Tigerfan112]

Having now read the whole thread, really good work in comparing the three kits. This has helped me considerably since I was on the verge of ordering the Trumpeter kit from MN Modelar (who have reduced it once again)....not going to waste money on this. So this leaves only one option for me......AMK/Annetra, which does look to be the best anyway, notwithstanding the issues with surface texture. Fortunately I do have one of the AWC kits to fall back on too !.

 

Thanks for your work, Gabor 

[Tigerfan112]

 

 

 

 

Some reference photos regarding components or airframe details that Gabor has picked up on in this thread. You may find them useful. Slovak Mil Mi-17 in Bosnia (2009).

[jonbryon]

5 hours ago, Tigerfan112 said:

Good work, so far (I have only got to Page 2) but the statement concerning Airfix is now incorrect. Tooling and production of the brand-new 1:24 Spitfire IX, for example, has been performed in the UK. This will only expand 

 

That kit wasn't tooled in the UK. It was injected in the UK, as per recent Airfix interview on the Sprue Cutters Union podcast.

 

Jon

[Tigerfan112]

5 hours ago, jonbryon said:

 

That kit wasn't tooled in the UK. It was injected in the UK, as per recent Airfix interview on the Sprue Cutters Union podcast.

 

Jon

 

So, this runs counter to what has been published elsewhere, which gives one the distinct impression that the entire design, production and delivery process for the Spitfire IX kit (and others) is now being undertaken in the UK.

[ya-gabor]

Think I mentioned it before that my posts are in parallel published here on ARC, on a Czech forum and also on scalemodels ru. Well almost everything since on some forums there are questions which require individual answers. On the Czech forum there were some comments saying that they are so disappointed in the Annetra/AMK kit due to some surface imperfections and the way the transparent parts are made. So here is what I added.

 

Took a little time this morning to make few photos.

As I have said before I don’t have the production version of the Annetra/AMK kit. This is why I did not include any photos of it before. The very first test examples of the Annetra kit canopies were a rough / unfinished / unpolished examples in 2018. They are for company testing and not really for the public. It is a unfinished product obviously.

 

 

The canopy was opaque / milk like transparency, only good for testing of the fit and overall shape issues. Since I only had this example at the time decided to do some testing on it. Took one example and gave it a little polishing with different grade sanding papers. At the same time corrected on the inside the shape issue on the bottom quarter light. It was cut / shaped / sanded and polished.

 

 

 

The side windows of pilots also had an issue, it is thick and acts like a magnifier. Here also a correct and constant thickness of around 0.5 mm was made. It was sanded and polished. Both the canopy and the side windows will receive a coat of Future to complete the correction and “polishing”.

 

 

 

And here is a Vacuum Formed canopy from the 48 th scale AWG resin Mi-17 kit from Poland. It looks nice, I will borrow some parts from it for my kit.

 

 

Also about the work AMK did for Annetra.

Based on the first test frames (many years ago) a long list of suggested corrections was sent by me, but also by others to AMK. Some obvious modifications were carried out by AMK, simple to know this since I have the test frames and the changes are visible. They did do work on the kit but far less than what would have been necessary!

In my opinion it is true that for Mr.AMK the Mi-17 project was just a subcontractors work, in view of the end product he did not really care for it.

 

None of the three kits are perfect! They all have issues, mistakes, areas which need corrections, missing details and even major parts . . . The Trumpeter kit is the worst of them.

 

Over all the Annetra kit can be built and it can be a nice scale model!

 

But fortunately everyone has a choice of what they would want to buy. No one is pushing anything or anyone in any way! All I can do is to show what I see with a modellers eye. The rest is up to the modellers.

 

Best regards

Gabor

[jonbryon]

1 hour ago, Tigerfan112 said:

 

So, this runs counter to what has been published elsewhere, which gives one the distinct impression that the entire design, production and delivery process for the Spitfire IX kit (and others) is now being undertaken in the UK.

 

I don't know about that, but the videos I saw emphasised the production of the kit was in the UK (including moulding, boxes, packaging, etc.), but made no mention of the actual tooling. That element remains in Asia (India or China, I forget). The information was from Martin Ridge (Airfix Development Manager) and Chris Parker-Joy (designer of the 1/24 Spitfire).

 

Jon

[ya-gabor]

There are new photoetch sets planned for the Annetra / AMK Mi-17 kit which will be released this May. It is interesting to see that in this set that completely wrong “box” made for the Звезда set has been deleted while other parts remain almost unchanged!   : )   : ) Also the completely useless cockpit door is also missing fortunately!

But we still get on the assembled kit invisible “triangles” (Part 45 & 46). Complete waste of brass and waste of money payed for this part of the etching!

The exhaust mesh cover (Part 51 & 52) for the ventilator cooler was adapted for the Annetra kit, but it is of completely wrong shape, same as in the kit so the etching is not correcting any mistake of the kit.

 

 

The instrument panel “shades” (Part 1 & 2) are once again of the wrong early Mi-8 version and not for Mi-17. Oh well . . .

 

   

 

Also interesting that for the Annetra kit the floor for the cargo bay was made, while for the Звезда kit it was not. How will it fit to the kit? Will it be warped due to the etching?

We will see when it is released.

Will this floor fit to the Звезда kit? Have no idea. But it will be possible to try it in May.

 

 

The one very interesting and welcome addition is the inclusion of seat straps for the cargo bay seats. It was not made by anyone else and of course since it should not be Annetra specific the use of it for any other kit should not be a problem.

 

 

Best regards

Gabor

[serendip]

Still following with much interest Gabor.

 

Got the Russian kit - looks pretty good, feel a bit guilty.

 

Marc.

[ya-gabor]

A little up date. There were questions raised in relation to the clear parts of the Annetra /AMK kit. Yes, there are problems there, but the original designer/maker/visionary of this kit, Annetra owner immediately came up with an answer with the help of a known Czech maker to produce Vac-Formed canopy parts. Here is his announcement a short time ago on a Czech forum:

 

The Vaku clear parts will be manufactured by Rob Taurus and will be available at the end of April. So they should already be available on Mošon.

 

Best regards

Gabor

[cruiz]

Available on Sprue Brothers for those interested.

 

https://spruebrothers.com/amk88010-1-48-amk-mi-17-hip/

 

 

[Tigerfan112]

Received my copy of the AMK Mi-17 kit yesterday afternoon and after a close examination of the parts, I am happy to report that my particular example does not bear any of the reported issues with surface texture. The transparencies are also crystal clear although the main canopy has some slight distortion on the lower panels; I suspect these will appear less pronounced once it is mounted, with all the cockpit detail behind it. My only issue is with the decal options, which are not particularly inspirational for me but then again I do recognise the 'local' interest given the kit manufacturers Czech connections.   

[ya-gabor]

Release of the photoetch set. Unfortunately even the company photos how little (nothing) can be seen of those "triangle" etch parts. : (  : (  : (

 

 

 

And a bit of the cockpit interior. The outside armour plate is attached with pieces of plastic rods. An interesting solution, but who am I to  . . .

 

 

Best regards

Gabor

[ya-gabor]

The Moson 2023 international modelling show will take place in 3 weeks time on the weekend of 22nd and 23rd of April.

 

Specially for the Moson show Annetra is preparing a Limited Hungarian Air Force edition of the Mi-17 kit with extras.

It will of course include a new decal sheet specially with Hungarian AF marking including both the old Star version from before 1991 and also the later Chevron version. As far as I know the set will include also the Rob Taurus Vac-Formed transparent part, a small photoetch with additional antennas, resin extra parts and  painting masks.

 

 

 

 

Best regards

Gabor

[ya-gabor]

In a weeks time (April 22nd & 23rd) the 25th anniversary Moson 2023 international modelling show will start with its first day on Saturday!

 

Here is the decal sheet which will go with the Limited Edition Hungarian AF boxing of the Annetra Mi-17 helicopter kit.

It has markings for both the “old” national marking of the Hungarian Red Star as well as the current Chevron marking version. The instruction sheet recommended paint scheme is for helicopter 705 but Annetra also gives four sets of board numbers so one can build other helicopters also.

 

 

Anyone coming to the Moson show??? See you all there!  : )  : )

 

Best regards

Gabor

[Tigerfan112]

On 3/4/2023 at 6:37 PM, serendip said:

Well that narrows it down significantly - I guess I'm with you then - I don't have the time to correct Annetra sloppiness.

 

Shame though - I'd hoped they'd do a better job.

 

Marc.

I simply cannot believe the fuss that is being made of the so-called issue with the 'surface detail' on the Avantgarde/Annetra kit. I received one of these two weeks ago and either A). I got lucky and received one without surface texture issues or B), there are lots of people out there making a mountain out of a molehill. Sure, if you were doing a natural metal example (if such a thing exists !?) it could  be an issue but in my case, I strongly believe that under a coat or two of camouflage and varnish this so-called 'issue' will largely disappear. Some of the photos I have seen seem to have been deliberately 'blown up' to accentuate what I really consider to be a non-issue. Seems like some have a 'hidden agenda' with this kit for some reason.     

[ya-gabor]

1 hour ago, Tigerfan112 said:

 Seems like some have a 'hidden agenda' with this kit for some reason.     

 

Reading the Czech modelling forum it was visible that some people were very angry with Annetra for not releasing it for such a long time and when at last it was released they deliberately started attacking the kit. Oh well . . .

 

In the past I was in contact with some people at the Zvezda company and it was interesting that they were saying about the same: the local modellers were prone to attack local made kits while not being so critical of foreign makers products.

 

This is something that we have to live with. As I have said before this is why it is important to try to show in parallel, without bias same / similar areas of the different kits, so that the modellers can make a choice based on their own preferences. Some like this, some like something else . . .

 

As far as I know in a weeks time at Moson show it will be possible for modellers to have a closer look at the actual kitb both Annetra/AMK and the Zvezda.

 

Best regards

Gabor

[Tigerfan112]

12 minutes ago, ya-gabor said:

 

Reading the Czech modelling forum it was visible that some people were very angry with Annetra for not releasing it for such a long time and when at last it was released they deliberately started attacking the kit. Oh well . . .

 

In the past I was in contact with some people at the Zvezda company and it was interesting that they were saying about the same: the local modellers were prone to attack local made kits while not being so critical of foreign makers products.

 

This is something that we have to live with. As I have said before this is why it is important to try to show in parallel, without bias same / similar areas of the different kits, so that the modellers can make a choice based on their own preferences. Some like this, some like something else . . .

 

As far as I know in a weeks time at Moson show it will be possible for modellers to have a closer look at the actual kitb both Annetra/AMK and the Zvezda.

 

Best regards

Gabor

 

Gabor,

 

Yes.....you are so right and this is why I have enjoyed this thread so much. You have taken an impassioned view of all three kits and have provided, IMHO, an excellent assessment of all three kits, highlighting the good and the bad. Your detailed analysis avoided me wasting too much time and money in trying to acquire the Trumpeter kit, for sure !. None of the kits are perfect, as you rightly point out, but at least we all now have a very good guide to help us decide which kit fits our requirements including accuracy, buildability and economic considerations. Well Done and THANK YOU !

[serendip]

1 hour ago, Tigerfan112 said:

I simply cannot believe the fuss that is being made of the so-called issue with the 'surface detail' on the Avantgarde/Annetra kit. I received one of these two weeks ago and either A). I got lucky and received one without surface texture issues or B), there are lots of people out there making a mountain out of a molehill. Sure, if you were doing a natural metal example (if such a thing exists !?) it could  be an issue but in my case, I strongly believe that under a coat or two of camouflage and varnish this so-called 'issue' will largely disappear. Some of the photos I have seen seem to have been deliberately 'blown up' to accentuate what I really consider to be a non-issue. Seems like some have a 'hidden agenda' with this kit for some reason.     

 

Maybe because 'surface detail' especially for a kit with one hundred thousand rivets is one of the most important aspects of a kit.

 

That may 'be a reason'.

 

And yes I am 'having fun' with the use of 'unnecessary inverted commas'.

 

Marc.

[Tigerfan112]

2 minutes ago, serendip said:

 

Maybe because 'surface detail' especially for a kit with one hundred thousand rivets is one of the most important aspects of a kit.

 

That may 'be a reason'.

 

And yes I am 'having fun' with the use of 'unnecessary inverted commas'.

 

Marc.

OK,

 

I'm going to drop out of this conversation now. It's obviously going in the same direction (with the exception of Gabor's excellent input) as most discussions on ARC and so I'm done with it.....just tried to be constructive.......hey ho   

[serendip]

6 minutes ago, Tigerfan112 said:

OK,

 

I'm going to drop out of this conversation now. It's obviously going in the same direction (with the exception of Gabor's excellent input) as most discussions on ARC and so I'm done with it.....just tried to be constructive.......hey ho   

Relax, just having some fun, you reacted to my post I reacted back - that''s all.

 

And no inverted commas this time.

 

Marc.

 

[fintajoe]

As I can see, the "Hungarian" box will include the same russian stencils, like the basic kit. The Macedonian and Czechoslovak versions stencils are exactly same like on Gabor's photo about the Hungarian decal sheet. 

[fintajoe]

I have one question for you Gábor. I saw photos of Hungarian Mi-17s with the "original" soviet markings. When they got the "VIGYÁZZ FORGÓ LÉGCSVAR" stencil, because I only saw our helicopters with it, instead of the cirillic Opasno....words?

 

[ya-gabor]

9 hours ago, fintajoe said:

I have one question for you Gábor. I saw photos of Hungarian Mi-17s with the "original" soviet markings. When they got the "VIGYÁZZ FORGÓ LÉGCSVAR" stencil, because I only saw our helicopters with it, instead of the cirillic Opasno....words?

 

 

Hi!

 

In early days the Mi-17's with the Hungarian star still had the ОПАСНО ВРАЩАЮЩИЙСЯ ВИНТ! Warning on the tail. It was there for a long time in its original form! Later the Hungarian VIGYÁZZ FORGÓ LÉGCSAVAR was applied in White. 

The special Limited Edition Annetra kit decal has also the White Hungarian warning for the tail. Unfortunately it is not really visible on the photo above! But it is there, so an option is given to the modeller to build which ever version they want.

 

Best regards

Gabor