ya-gabor Posted February 28, 2023 Author Share Posted February 28, 2023 1 hour ago, cruiz said: Thanks, Gabor; I'll keep an eye on my regular sources to get it. On a different note, Aztec Models has released two decal sheets with several options for American operators (from the USA to Peru), in case anyone is interested. Hi Cruiz, Why not show something of the decals? I am sure everyone would be interested here. Best regards Gabor Quote Link to post Share on other sites
cruiz Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 Here they are, Gabor; I didn't want to steer the focus of this thread. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ya-gabor Posted March 1, 2023 Author Share Posted March 1, 2023 I imagine that this thread is about the three Mi-8/Mi-17 kits and EVERYTHING connected with it that can help modellers decide on whichone to get, what extras they can find for this kit, what aftermarkets are available . . . This is not BRICKModeller where local Gestapo kills off any comments if they touch anything not 100000% connected to the word of the title of a given thread! : ) : ) : ) In my opinion any news, information, help, opinion, extras . . . is of help to other modellers so they have a place here. So those decals in my view are essential! Best regards Gabor Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jonbryon Posted March 1, 2023 Share Posted March 1, 2023 3 hours ago, ya-gabor said: This is not BRICKModeller where local Gestapo kills off any comments if they touch anything not 100000% connected to the word of the title of a given thread! : ) : ) : ) 🤣🤣 Jon Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tank Posted March 1, 2023 Share Posted March 1, 2023 13 hours ago, cruiz said: Here they are, Gabor; I didn't want to steer the focus of this thread. Great looking options. Would look great in 1/72 also. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Andreas Beck Posted March 1, 2023 Share Posted March 1, 2023 Just arrived from mn-modelar (I was on the lucky side). The minor irritation above the insert mold line is easy to be worked on. But it indicates that the decision for series-production was taken in hurry after the announcement of the competing other kits. What does the insert line in this place mean ? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jonbryon Posted March 1, 2023 Share Posted March 1, 2023 3 hours ago, Andreas Beck said: Just arrived from mn-modelar (I was on the lucky side). The minor irritation above the insert mold line is easy to be worked on. But it indicates that the decision for series-production was taken in hurry after the announcement of the competing other kits. What does the insert line in this place mean ? This (and the lack of rivets) is precisely why I went for a non-AMK option and purchased a competing product. IMO, since the trio of MiG-31, Magister and Kfir kits, AMK have significantly dropped the ball in terms of moulding quality. I notice at least one builder of a pre-release of the AMK Mil Mi-8 on Facebook is having real issues with the kit. Jon Quote Link to post Share on other sites
serendip Posted March 1, 2023 Share Posted March 1, 2023 21 hours ago, cruiz said: Here they are, Gabor; I didn't want to steer the focus of this thread. Decals look excellent - thanks so much for sharing. Some really special non-camo (for a change) schemes. Marc Quote Link to post Share on other sites
serendip Posted March 1, 2023 Share Posted March 1, 2023 12 hours ago, ya-gabor said: I imagine that this thread is about the three Mi-8/Mi-17 kits and EVERYTHING connected with it that can help modellers decide on whichone to get, what extras they can find for this kit, what aftermarkets are available . . . This is not BRICKModeller where local Gestapo kills off any comments if they touch anything not 100000% connected to the word of the title of a given thread! : ) : ) : ) In my opinion any news, information, help, opinion, extras . . . is of help to other modellers so they have a place here. So those decals in my view are essential! Best regards Gabor I guess you mean the humourmonger? Share your opinion 100%. Marc. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
serendip Posted March 1, 2023 Share Posted March 1, 2023 2 hours ago, jonbryon said: This (and the lack of rivets) is precisely why I went for a non-AMK option and purchased a competing product. IMO, since the trio of MiG-31, Magister and Kfir kits, AMK have significantly dropped the ball in terms of moulding quality. I notice at least one builder of a pre-release of the AMK Mil Mi-8 on Facebook is having real issues with the kit. Jon Jon, Which non-AMK option did you go for? That indeed does not look pretty. Marc. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ya-gabor Posted March 1, 2023 Author Share Posted March 1, 2023 7 hours ago, Andreas Beck said: Just arrived from mn-modelar (I was on the lucky side). The minor irritation above the insert mold line is easy to be worked on. But it indicates that the decision for series-production was taken in hurry after the announcement of the competing other kits. What does the insert line in this place mean ? Hi Andreas, The kit is far from perfect and many not too favourable decisions were taken by the tool maker which don’t really correspond to the requirements of the designer company (Annetra)!!! Unfortunately!!! : ( : ( This is why I am showing all three competing kits side by side (where possible, with borrowed e net photos since I don’t have the Trump version, and have no intention of having it either) to show what they did. On the test shots I have this top area did not look like this. There is very little if at all feedback from the tool maker to know what really happened there. In technical terms it is part of a slide mould tool and this is why there is a seam there. Under high magnification it does not look too good! I agree with that! Since there are no rivets on the surface it is fairly easy to correct this part. On a Czech forum this area was also highlighted as a problem. As the instruction suggests there are other areas also where the modeller will need to make adjustment, sanding or even cutting (Like the forward part of the cockpit floor which I pointed out earlier). Best regards Gabor Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ya-gabor Posted March 1, 2023 Author Share Posted March 1, 2023 42 minutes ago, serendip said: Jon, Which non-AMK option did you go for? That indeed does not look pretty. Marc. Hi Marc, You can have two guesses and hope that Jon did not mean the toy Trump kit! : ) : ) Best regards Gabor Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ya-gabor Posted March 1, 2023 Author Share Posted March 1, 2023 8 hours ago, Tank said: Great looking options. Would look great in 1/72 also. Hi Tank, I have to agree! But . . . A good Mi-8 / Mi-17 kit in 72nd would look great also to go with the decals!!! There is little chance that Звезда will down scale the kit, but of course never say never! They already have some old Mi-8's in the catalog, just as some Chinese makers, so there is little left for a brand new tooling of it in 72nd! Unfortunately! : ( : ( Best regards Gabor Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tank Posted March 1, 2023 Share Posted March 1, 2023 31 minutes ago, ya-gabor said: Hi Tank, I have to agree! But . . . A good Mi-8 / Mi-17 kit in 72nd would look great also to go with the decals!!! There is little chance that Звезда will down scale the kit, but of course never say never! They already have some old Mi-8's in the catalog, just as some Chinese makers, so there is little left for a brand new tooling of it in 72nd! Unfortunately! : ( : ( Best regards Gabor I agree on a new kit would be nice. When researching the Mexican Mi-8, an article suggested a third manufacturer licensed built in China on top of the two known 1:1 builders so even more probable difference between airframes. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ya-gabor Posted March 1, 2023 Author Share Posted March 1, 2023 (edited) 50 minutes ago, Tank said: I agree on a new kit would be nice. When researching the Mexican Mi-8, an article suggested a third manufacturer licensed built in China on top of the two known 1:1 builders so even more probable difference between airframes. Yeah, I seen some with some "extras" here and there. : ( : ( : ( There is no way to follow all the versions, sub-versions, side-versions . . . I am sure Flankerman can still make a difference between them. Life is short and there is just so much time for building kits. So I have 1 for certain in my mind (doing some work on it) and two others but that should be it. At the moment I am up to something completely different and having great fun with it! : ) : ) : ) : ) : ) : ) : ) : ) (Sorry but this is partly responsible for not making posts about the 3 Mi-8 kits lately) Will try to get back on them. Best regards Gabor Edited March 1, 2023 by ya-gabor Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jonbryon Posted March 1, 2023 Share Posted March 1, 2023 3 hours ago, ya-gabor said: Hi Marc, You can have two guesses and hope that Jon did not mean the toy Trump kit! : ) : ) Best regards Gabor 4 hours ago, serendip said: Jon, Which non-AMK option did you go for? That indeed does not look pretty. Marc. Indeed, I did not get the Trumpeter one! Jon Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ya-gabor Posted March 2, 2023 Author Share Posted March 2, 2023 Had a look at the photoetch parts Eduard designed for the Звезда Mi-8MT (Set 1340 + 49). They are published by the company both showing the etching and now also as installed on the kit parts. Looking at the parts it is visible that both internal and outside details were made. Based on this will there be a dedicated external surface photoetch set? Don’t think so. First of all one very important point! The name Mi-8MT is the name for the late Mi-8 version (with TV3-117 engines), while the actual Mi-8 for us (in Czechoslovakia, GDR, Hungary . . .) is usually only the early Mi-8T with the TV2-117 engines. They are very different helicopters! People are forgetting this unfortunately! Actually I was looking forward to this photoetch but in its present form it has unfortunately extremely little value! Was looking forward to seeing some of the parts which Звезда simply forgot but also intentionally did not make them due to size for the kit and which are perfect subjects for photoetch, but basically there are none in this new set! Very sad!!!! Here are some examples of the problems with the parts in the set. Like the “box” at the entry into the cockpit Part 74 was used on early Mi-8T’s. Remember Mi-8MT/Mi-17 and Mi-8T differences! Звезда made a mistake in including Part E6 (the equivalent of this Edu Part 74) and unfortunately Eduard followed this mistake! Of course with time Звезда will also do a proper Mi-8T (with TV2-117 engine) and then this part will be of use in the kit. But not for the Mi-8MT/Mi-17!!! And it has no value what so ever for this set intended for Mi-8MT. Waste of brass! You can ask What is this “box”? It is very simple, the early Mi-8T had the winch inside the cargo bay on the floor, opposite the entry door. It had a cable running all the way to the outside/overhead unit. The box was put there so that the crew entering the cockpit would not trip over it or damage the wire. The Mi-8MT has the brand new LPG-150 external winch so there is no wire and no need for the “box”. The “shades” (Eduard Part 1 & 2 on colour etch) over the instrument panels are for early Mi-8T’s! : ( : ( The Mi-17 shades are very different! The early shades were a hard pieces, while the late ones are textile and the shape is different to accommodate protection from outside light even from the sides. I don’t understand why Звезда Part E16 and E17 were made by Eduard as Part 65 and 66! The original plastic parts are perfectly adequate for the kit. This is also a complete waste of brass!!! Have a look at the plastic parts, they have all the surface features which were reproduced once again in brass for no apparent reason. There are Parts 49 and 50 for the floor of the small “triangle” pieces of the back door. The problem is that they will not be visible! If you open the back doors then these two “triangles” have to be in the up position and the surface will not be really visible! If the back doors are closed on the kit, then there is absolutely no point in making them since it will be never seen! Here is a view of them and what can be seen of the surface. When installed on the fuselage then even less will be visible. While the triangles were made, the area next to them was not made in brass. This area IS VISIBLE, so if something then it should have been made. The Mi-8MT’s / Mi-17’s in service during the Afghan war had a defensive package added to them which included armour plates to protect the crew. They were fitted as unit to any given helicopter. Eduard is providing Parts 47 & 48 for the outside armour of the cockpit. If this armour was made then why did not Eduard do the armour for the side blister windows of the pilots. When the side armour (47 & 48) are installed under the cockpit on the outside, then the window armour is also fitted! Why did not Eduard make it??? They are perfect for brass parts since there is little space on the inside of the side blisters. There would have been more than enough brass space to include them, if the useless items are left off. The crew entry door for the cockpit. It is provided as a double sided etching Part 45. I see that Звезда kit has the door in closed position. OK you open the door and use a photoetch, but the back of the door will be against the wall, so it will not be ever visible. Why make it double sided? Waste of brass once again and unwarranted increase in price! It would have been interesting to know the views of the designers, so I wrote to Eduard about the concerns, about a month ago. And there are so many fine details which are simply perfect for photoetch which have not been made by Eduard. Sad! Very sad! Actually Звезда people were saying that many parts they simply don’t make since the aftermarket companies (including Eduard) will make it anyway so why should they try to make these very small parts from plastic! All in all about 30-40% of the brass surface is taken up by parts which have little or no use at all. This also means that the modeller is paying an extra 40% for something that has no value. : ( : ( Best regards Gabor Quote Link to post Share on other sites
serendip Posted March 2, 2023 Share Posted March 2, 2023 22 hours ago, ya-gabor said: Hi Marc, You can have two guesses and hope that Jon did not mean the toy Trump kit! : ) : ) Best regards Gabor Hi Gabor, I wonder though - Maybe it's too early too tell, but if the Annetra kit has tangerine peel skin that's also not far from ideal. I haven't built a Trumpy kit for ages but I recall the Mig-23 was great. I've read this this thread with much attention and I love your dedication but why a toy? - internal / external acuuracy? overall dimensional accuracy? anchronisms? getting their variants mixed? I'm so pleased we've got three of these coming out but seeing as I only manage to finish one kit per half year or so I'm keen too buy the best. Thanks for the time you're dedicating too this thread and also the sympathetic, positive attitude all contributors on the thread have - this one's a joy to follow. Marc. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ya-gabor Posted March 2, 2023 Author Share Posted March 2, 2023 Hi Marc, As I have said before everyone decides on which kit to buy based on different individual requirements, on what they would like to see from a kit. All I can do is to show a comparison with more or less similar parts in similar conditions from my own perspective. For me based on what I have seen so far the Trump designers did not really spend too much time on research, simply had a deadline for a project and did it as best as they could with little attention for detail. On previous pages in main I compared details, authenticity, technical correctness to the original. For me this is interesting. It is possible that for others it is more about easy building, or they simply say “It looks like a Mi-8 to me” and they will be happy with it. This is perfectly normal and acceptable, after all this is a hobby that we do for our own pleasure. There are no strict rules and outside demands. Eveyone does what he wants and also buys the kit which he wants, which he likes or has access too, or can afford to buy. . . For the Trump kit apart from some sprue photos available on net I also had a look at build videos of this kit to see what other modellers make of it and what they think about it. It is based on this and on previous pages of comparison that I say that the Trump kit is more like a toy, while the Annetra/AMK and the Звезда closer to scale reproduction of the real helicopter. None are perfect, they are far from it, both of them have problems, mistakes, but they are far better! As for a fast build, I had the Annetra test frames for some 3 or 4 years now and still done only minimal work, it will be a long time before I am finished. Mainly because the thing I want to do is special and different from what is in the box. So it is a lot of extra research, designing, scratch building, resin casting, experimenting . . . And there are other things in life also. . . and other kits distracting as well! : ) : ) Best regards Gabor Quote Link to post Share on other sites
serendip Posted March 4, 2023 Share Posted March 4, 2023 Thanks Gabor, The thing with the Annetra kit is that the surface detail seems flawed - I stress seems, the pictures shown above may be a one off error. Starting off with a flaw like that however will effectively mean resurfacing the whole thing, to me almost negating how good it is in other respects. So indeed I am wondering if a Trumpy kit with enough after market thrown at it (keeping your Eduard odservations in mind) might also be an option. Early days yet though. Best, Msarc. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ya-gabor Posted March 4, 2023 Author Share Posted March 4, 2023 Hi Marc, One can produce a masterpiece even from a piece of fallen wood in the garden, taken a lot of time and money to make it! Yes, sure one can make something special even from the Trump kit! : ) : ) I believe it was mentioned before that each of the 3 kits have their own market due to geopolitical position, due to local availability, due to nationalistic feelings, due to local discount price . . . It is endless. Best regards Gabor Quote Link to post Share on other sites
serendip Posted March 4, 2023 Share Posted March 4, 2023 Im must say I'm also having a hard time finding any reviews on the kits. I'm wondering especially if the rough finish on the Annetra kit is just a one off flaw (which I doubt) or just sloppy manufacturing. Marc. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Stephen Posted March 4, 2023 Share Posted March 4, 2023 I received the kit this week and the surface finish on mine is the same as the above photo. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
serendip Posted March 4, 2023 Share Posted March 4, 2023 On 3/1/2023 at 11:48 PM, jonbryon said: Indeed, I did not get the Trumpeter one! Jon Well that narrows it down significantly - I guess I'm with you then - I don't have the time to correct Annetra sloppiness. Shame though - I'd hoped they'd do a better job. Marc. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
serendip Posted March 4, 2023 Share Posted March 4, 2023 25 minutes ago, Stephen said: I received the kit this week and the surface finish on mine is the same as the above photo. Stephan - thanks for the feedback. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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