AMMO MiG-17F in 48th scale

[dai phan]

On 9/14/2023 at 8:54 PM, Curt B said:

Hey All,

 

Looks like this kit is now available from at least one US hobby store, Andy's Hobby Headquarters.  $69.99 for the premium edition, and $10.00 for shipping (plus a few $$ for tax, if applicable).  Just in case anyone cares.

39.99 for regular version? That is a really good retail price for a 1/48 jet with latest tooling. I intended to order one premium and somehow ended with 2 upon completion? Still waiting any day for the ones ordered from 1001 hobbies. Dai 

[Bozothenutter]

14 hours ago, Curt B said:

You're welcome, Mike.  My premium version is coming tomorrow from Andy's.

 

Since I'm getting mine, I have a question.  It seems like all the models of these early Soviet jets are finished in a very 'uniform' metal finish color.  I'm wondering if there are any photos with a decent resolution of actual MiG-17s back in their operational days that clearly show what the finish looked like?  I was looking at older posts in various threads, and I realized that I'd been assuming that these planes were left in natural metal.  Apparently, this is not correct.  I've been reading that they were painted with some kind of paint with aluminum powder infused into the mixture.  Maybe that's why they don't look like U.S. planes with weathered natural metal panels.  However, it also sounds like various panels may have been manufactured and painted with different formulas of paint, then assembled, so there may be cases where some panels actually do look somewhat different from the overall airplane.  Are there any decent pictures that show these variations?  Thanks for any help.

Almost no NMF jet is actually left in NMF.

Mostly because of corrosion protection. 

What has always made me wonder though, is how they are painted.

NMF aircraft that are left outside for decades, seem to lose the paint, showing the original aluminium underneath. 

I'm wondering what (if any) primer they use?

[ya-gabor]

The Natural Metal Migs were exactly natural metal! Anyone questioning this should take a look at manufacturers / maintenance manual for the Migs of that period.

For corrosion protection the natural metal surfaces of the aircraft were covered with transparent varnish. Back in those days there were several varnish versions available to the aircraft factories (depending on the solvent type used in them).

 

Very few parts of the aircraft were actually painted as such. For example on a MiG-15 the area around the front windshield. Here a thick rubbery textile sealant (black / very dark grey) was overpainted with “Aluminium coloured” paint. Just as the steel counterbalances on stabilizers or the quick release locks for the forward radio compartment cover. In some cases they were also simply “painted” with varnish, so the much darker (in comparison to aluminium surface) real steel colour was showing. (it is often mistakenly identified from Black & White photos as red painted locks).

 

This is how those aircraft left the factory and served first years with units. In many cases even later also, but some after overhaul had an overall Aluminium paint applied, but this changes from operator AF, overhaul technological requirements, age and use of the original varnish surface . . .

 

 

Museum and abandoned aircraft should never be used as a reference!

 

 

Best regards

Gabor

[Buckmeister]

7 hours ago, ya-gabor said:

The Natural Metal Migs were exactly natural metal!

 

In the case of Soviet aircraft, I have to disagree.  There is a lot of documentary evidence that the Soviet manufacturers coated the aircraft with clear varnish that contained aluminum powder.  Tom Cooper has done a lot of research on this, and he says they received two coats - one with 10% aluminum and one with 5% aluminum.  A lot of Soviet aircraft have a very dull appearance as a result of this.  I think it is clear from photos that the treatment was not the same on every type, since on some you can see different shades of metal, while on others the overall finish is a uniform silver color.  But a truly natural metal, unfinished, uncoated Soviet aircraft is extremely rare.  Compare to a brand new F-100 or F-104 - they will blind you in the sunlight.  You never see that kind of shiny finish on a Soviet aircraft.

Edited September 16, 2023 by Buckmeister

[Curt B]

7 hours ago, ya-gabor said:

The Natural Metal Migs were exactly natural metal! Anyone questioning this should take a look at manufacturers / maintenance manual for the Migs of that period.

For corrosion protection the natural metal surfaces of the aircraft were covered with transparent varnish. Back in those days there were several varnish versions available to the aircraft factories (depending on the solvent type used in them).

 

Very few parts of the aircraft were actually painted as such. For example on a MiG-15 the area around the front windshield. Here a thick rubbery textile sealant (black / very dark grey) was overpainted with “Aluminium coloured” paint. Just as the steel counterbalances on stabilizers or the quick release locks for the forward radio compartment cover. In some cases they were also simply “painted” with varnish, so the much darker (in comparison to aluminium surface) real steel colour was showing. (it is often mistakenly identified from Black & White photos as red painted locks).

 

This is how those aircraft left the factory and served first years with units. In many cases even later also, but some after overhaul had an overall Aluminium paint applied, but this changes from operator AF, overhaul technological requirements, age and use of the original varnish surface . . .

 

 

Museum and abandoned aircraft should never be used as a reference!

 

 

Best regards

Gabor

 

10 minutes ago, Buckmeister said:

 

In the case of Soviet aircraft, I have to disagree.  There is a lot of documentary evidence that the Soviet manufacturers coated the aircraft with clear varnish that contained aluminum powder.  Tom Cooper has done a lot of research on this, and he says they received two coats - one with 10% aluminum and one with 5% aluminum.  A lot of Soviet aircraft have a very dull appearance as a result of this.  I think it is clear from photos that the treatment was not the same on every type, since on some you can see different shades of metal, while on others the overall finish is a uniform silver color.  But a truly natural metal, unfinished, uncoated Soviet aircraft is extremely rare.  Compare to a brand new F-100 or F-104 - they will blind you in the sunlight.  You never see that kind of shiny finish on a Soviet aircraft.

Thanks for your responses, gentlemen.  So, do you have opinions on what would be an accurate looking finish on an in-service MiG-17F after a few years (e.g., not new)?  To be honest, I've never really liked the 'look' of MiG-15 or MiG-17 models that have a very uniform, semi-satin overall 'silver paint' finish.  If that is/was an accurate look to these planes, I guess I couldn't argue with the look, but to me, the models painted like that look like toy airplanes.  Would  it be reasonable to do  at least a bit of 'patchwork' panels, that is, some panels picked out in different weathered colors and different levels of gloss, perhaps some being more matte than others?  Maybe do some oil weathering of some random panels?  I'm not suggesting that the plane should look like a fabric quilt, with every panel different  from the one next to it, but perhaps a few panels that look different from the overall finish?  Or maybe have the majority of the airplane with that overall dull silver finish, but with some panels that are more satin finished, sothat that it doesn't look like the airplane was dipped in paint?  Thoughts?  

[ya-gabor]

1 hour ago, Buckmeister said:

 

In the case of Soviet aircraft, I have to disagree.  There is a lot of documentary evidence that the Soviet manufacturers coated the aircraft with clear varnish that contained aluminum powder.  Tom Cooper has done a lot of research on this, and he says they received two coats - one with 10% aluminum and one with 5% aluminum.  A lot of Soviet aircraft have a very dull appearance as a result of this.  I think it is clear from photos that the treatment was not the same on every type, since on some you can see different shades of metal, while on others the overall finish is a uniform silver color.  But a truly natural metal, unfinished, uncoated Soviet aircraft is extremely rare.  Compare to a brand new F-100 or F-104 - they will blind you in the sunlight.  You never see that kind of shiny finish on a Soviet aircraft.

 

 

I am sure this Tom Cooper (have no idea who he is) has done a lot of research into this, but the fact is that the Migs leaving factory in 1950’s had a true natural metal finish, they were coated with clear protecting varnish on almost the whole surface apart from few panels which were from different materials. Same applied all the way up to late Migs like MiG-21PF, MiG-21PFM and even MiG-21MF!

Good quality period photos clearly show the “real” natural metal finish on these planes. One should not compare the polished Starfighters to any of the Migs. They are completely different stories!

In the previous post I did mention that originally the Migs left the factory in this real “natural metal scheme”! Also mentioned that in years after that there were many changes. Powdered Aluminium was added to the clear varnish for an overall finish only much later! That is another story, one should not confuse them. Here we are speaking about real “natural metal finish” of Migs, including many MiG-17F’s which are the topic of this thread.  

 

I am a nobody, but in the past decades sifted through many volumes of original MiG manuals, individual a/c log books of technical service, overhaul documentations, pain shop technological instructions and spoken to paint shop personal / engineers who back many decades ago actually serviced those early Migs. I just answered based on this a question raised here. And I stand by it.

 

You don’t have to believe me!  This is just a forum where we speak about all sorts of ideas, fortunately we are free to add what ever we want. 

 

Best regards

Gabor

[ya-gabor]

29 minutes ago, Curt B said:

 

Thanks for your responses, gentlemen.  So, do you have opinions on what would be an accurate looking finish on an in-service MiG-17F after a few years (e.g., not new)?  To be honest, I've never really liked the 'look' of MiG-15 or MiG-17 models that have a very uniform, semi-satin overall 'silver paint' finish.  If that is/was an accurate look to these planes, I guess I couldn't argue with the look, but to me, the models painted like that look like toy airplanes.  Would  it be reasonable to do  at least a bit of 'patchwork' panels, that is, some panels picked out in different weathered colors and different levels of gloss, perhaps some being more matte than others?  Maybe do some oil weathering of some random panels?  I'm not suggesting that the plane should look like a fabric quilt, with every panel different  from the one next to it, but perhaps a few panels that look different from the overall finish?  Or maybe have the majority of the airplane with that overall dull silver finish, but with some panels that are more satin finished, sothat that it doesn't look like the airplane was dipped in paint?  Thoughts?  

 

Hi Curt B,

 

As mentioned earlier one has to differentiate between stages of life of a given airframe. Look at the work Airfix did with the brand new Seaking helicopter. While it is the one and the same airframe it had very different schemes and also level of equipment added on it in its years of service!

 

The Migs also had several stages:

1.  original factory finish in natural metal with clear varnish over it. (I personally like this the best!) Here you can see all the metal parts as they are, all the rivets. The machining of the surface was made in different ways so they reflect differently giving the illusion that they are of different colour. The clear varnish gave the aircraft a nice and very distinct glossy surface! They were nice and clean with minimal weathering! Aluminium does not really weather in any form, it can rot after many decades of neglect but that is another story.

 

2. Years later with overhaul some a/c were left in the same scheme while on others if the extent of the damage to the varnish layer was so much then after overhaul in the final stage a repaint was carried out. Be it just with clear varnish, or in patches with clear varnish with added Alu powder, or a complete respray with Varnish+ Alu powder.

And yes you are right they did look stupid! A uniform, dull, whitish metallic look! 

 

3. As years progressed, new political and military doctrines, new conflicts many received camouflage schemes and all the “Alu thing” (or Natural Metal) was lost completely.

 

I can only say research your subject! Try to find as many good photos of the given airframe! Or take your own reference photos. Fortunately all over the world there are many Migs in museums and some of them show the full Natural Metal scheme! US has many Migs, so there could be one fairly close to you! You are in Las Vegas I could think of some even near you!!!

 

If you want to go down the road of the Spanish School of over hyped painting techinique, then I would recommend the camouflaged schemes. Unless it is a downed Natural Metal Arab MiG-17 with extensive fire damage somewhere in a desert.

  

Best regards

Gabor

[Curt B]

4 hours ago, ya-gabor said:

 

Hi Curt B,

 

As mentioned earlier one has to differentiate between stages of life of a given airframe. Look at the work Airfix did with the brand new Seaking helicopter. While it is the one and the same airframe it had very different schemes and also level of equipment added on it in its years of service!

 

The Migs also had several stages:

1.  original factory finish in natural metal with clear varnish over it. (I personally like this the best!) Here you can see all the metal parts as they are, all the rivets. The machining of the surface was made in different ways so they reflect differently giving the illusion that they are of different colour. The clear varnish gave the aircraft a nice and very distinct glossy surface! They were nice and clean with minimal weathering! Aluminium does not really weather in any form, it can rot after many decades of neglect but that is another story.

 

2. Years later with overhaul some a/c were left in the same scheme while on others if the extent of the damage to the varnish layer was so much then after overhaul in the final stage a repaint was carried out. Be it just with clear varnish, or in patches with clear varnish with added Alu powder, or a complete respray with Varnish+ Alu powder.

And yes you are right they did look stupid! A uniform, dull, whitish metallic look! 

 

3. As years progressed, new political and military doctrines, new conflicts many received camouflage schemes and all the “Alu thing” (or Natural Metal) was lost completely.

 

I can only say research your subject! Try to find as many good photos of the given airframe! Or take your own reference photos. Fortunately all over the world there are many Migs in museums and some of them show the full Natural Metal scheme! US has many Migs, so there could be one fairly close to you! You are in Las Vegas I could think of some even near you!!!

 

If you want to go down the road of the Spanish School of over hyped painting techinique, then I would recommend the camouflaged schemes. Unless it is a downed Natural Metal Arab MiG-17 with extensive fire damage somewhere in a desert.

  

Best regards

Gabor

You have given me some great ideas here, Gabor, thank you!  You're correct, being in Las Vegas does have its advantages in many ways...never really thought about that!  Actually, one of the reasons I moved here almost 25 years ago, now, was that LV is close to so much, within itself, but also proximity to southern California (Los Angeles, Orange County, San Diego, etc.) which we can get to in about 4 hours in the car.  Plus the weather...I'd had enough of freezing cold, shoveling snow, and overcast skies for a big percentage of the year when I lived in Chicago.

 

I'm not a big fan of the exaggeration of some of the recently espoused painting processes, though as a break from my typically desired ultra-realism (not that I do a great job of meeting that most of the time), it might be okay.  I will see what I can find.  One thing of interest.  I've watched a few videos on YouTube showing a flyable MiG-17F from Planes of Fame, and that plane looks like it was dipped in paint, too.  Of course, I'm sure they just want that plane to look 'good' for air shows, not necessarily looking like it came off the Soviet assembly line.

Edited September 17, 2023 by Curt B

[Buckmeister]

Tom Cooper is a very well respected researcher, author, and artist.  He has (among other things) published a six volume series of books called “Arab MiGs”. If you don’t have them, you should get them.  Additionally, the highly regarded Russian Armada book on the MiG-15 talks about the aluminum pigmented varnish that was applied to that aircraft.  I also have a copy of the USAF exploitation report on the MiG-15bis that No Kum-sok flew to Kimpo Air Base in 1953, and it speaks about the painted aluminum finish found on that aircraft.

 

Take that for what it’s worth.

[Curt B]

I just got my premium model today.  Not that this will be news to anyone, given that we were able to see the sprues before, but this is an EXTREMELY simple kit to build.  I would say that of all the ~200+ kits in my stash of unbuilt models, this one is, by at least 50%, the easiest airplane to put together.  That doesn't necessarily mean that it won't turn out very nicely when completed, but now that it's actually in my hands, it feels even more easy to build than I would have thought.  I hope that it goes together and fits as well as it's simple construction implies.

 

I will say that the packaging is impressive.  The box, both the top and the bottom, are double walled, thick, enamel-like coated paper.  The instruction booklet is also in color, and has thick, enamel faced paper pages, as is the large tri-fold paint and stencil guide.  AMMO has included the 3D printed premium extras in a separate small box, padded with styrofoam popcorn.  The  Ginger Cat canopy and tires masking comes in a separate sleeve with a full color instruction sheet,  and the Red Fox instrument panel, which is in the 'extras box', has its own full color single page instructions.  AMMO has has inserted quite impressive thick paper and full color advertising for their adhesive line, panel line washes, and sanding and polishing tools, and a very impressive, even larger, full color, heavy multi-page booklet devoted to their relatively new A-Stand metallic lacquer paints, clear coats, and primers.  These paints are, apparently, either a replacement for the newish Alclad II series of paints, or possibly a separate line that is AMMO specific.  The photo etch wing fences and a few other pieces  are packaged in the same clear envelope as the decals, which are the one thing that appear less impressive than everything else.  The decals appear in register and opaque, but just not up to the same standard, packaging-wise, as all this other stuff.  The sprues almost get lost in the midst of all this paper!

Edited September 17, 2023 by Curt B

[dai phan]

1 hour ago, Curt B said:

I just got my premium model today.  Not that this will be news to anyone, given that we were able to see the sprues before, but this is an EXTREMELY simple kit to build.  I would say that of all the ~200+ kits in my stash of unbuilt models, this one is, by at least 50%, the easiest airplane to put together.  That doesn't necessarily mean that it won't turn out very nicely when completed, but now that it's actually in my hands, it feels even more easy to build than I would have thought.  I hope that it goes together and fits as well as it's simple construction implies.

 

I will say that the packaging is impressive.  The box, both the top and the bottom, are double walled, thick, enamel-like coated paper.  The instruction booklet is also in color, and has thick, enamel faced paper pages, as is the large tri-fold paint and stencil guide.  AMMO has included the 3D printed premium extras in a separate small box, padded with styrofoam popcorn.  The  Ginger Cat canopy and tires masking comes in a separate sleeve with a full color instruction sheet,  and the Red Fox instrument panel, which is in the 'extras box', has its own full color single page instructions.  AMMO has has inserted quite impressive thick paper and full color advertising for their adhesive line, panel line washes, and sanding and polishing tools, and a very impressive, even larger, full color, heavy multi-page booklet devoted to their relatively new A-Stand metallic lacquer paints, clear coats, and primers.  These paints are, apparently, either a replacement for the newish Alclad II series of paints, or possibly a separate line that is AMMO specific.  The photo etch wing fences and a few other pieces  are packaged in the same clear envelope as the decals, which are the one thing that appear less impressive than everything else.  The decals appear in register and opaque, but just not up to the same standard, packaging-wise, as all this other stuff.  The sprues almost get lost in the midst of all this paper!

Hard to believe 40 bucks for basic version. I thought it would be 60 for the regular and 100 for the special. Dai 

[Laurent]

9 hours ago, Curt B said:

You have given me some great ideas here, Gabor, thank you!  You're correct, being in Las Vegas does have its advantages in many ways...never really thought about that!  Actually, one of the reasons I moved here almost 25 years ago, now, was that LV is close to so much, within itself, but also proximity to southern California (Los Angeles, Orange County, San Diego, etc.) which we can get to in about 4 hours in the car.  Plus the weather...I'd had enough of freezing cold, shoveling snow, and overcast skies for a big percentage of the year when I lived in Chicago.

 

I'm not a big fan of the exaggeration of some of the recently espoused painting processes, though as a break from my typically desired ultra-realism (not that I do a great job of meeting that most of the time), it might be okay.  I will see what I can find.  One thing of interest.  I've watched a few videos on YouTube showing a flyable MiG-17F from Planes of Fame, and that plane looks like it was dipped in paint, too.  Of course, I'm sure they just want that plane to look 'good' for air shows, not necessarily looking like it came off the Soviet assembly line.

If you want to learn about the metal colour shades I think you should look for photos of airframes made while they were being restored like http://www.ratomodeling.com.br/references/mig17F/ 

[dai phan]

Hi all,

 

Got mine from 1001 Hobbies in France. Dai 

 

Edited September 19, 2023 by dai phan

[Curt B]

12 hours ago, dai phan said:

Hi all,

 

Got mine from 1001 Hobbies in France. Dai 

 

Good for you!!!

[Curt B]

On 9/17/2023 at 12:48 AM, Laurent said:

If you want to learn about the metal colour shades I think you should look for photos of airframes made while they were being restored like http://www.ratomodeling.com.br/references/mig17F/ 

I appreciate the link, as it provides a lot of details I've not seen before.  I'm still not sure that that unreasoned airframe  really shows what the plane looked like when in service. Rivets are clearly visible, even if most of them appear to be sealed over, and perhaps under coats of camo paint would not be visible, but it's clear whether or not the 'sealed' rivets would have been visible or not under the 'varnishes' that had the 5% or 10% aluminum added.  I'm inclined too think that some rivets  would have been visible, but to what extent is the question.   The AMMO kit is absolutely perfectly smooth, except for the panel lines, and I'm debating about  whether I should go through the effort of using a rivet tool to put them on my model, and if I do that, would I need to include every existing rivet, or just some 'representative' rivet details.  I didn't notice any significant panel color differences, but I may still consider making some visible one my model. 

[dai phan]

38 minutes ago, Curt B said:

I appreciate the link, as it provides a lot of details I've not seen before.  I'm still not sure that that unreasoned airframe  really shows what the plane looked like when in service. Rivets are clearly visible, even if most of them appear to be sealed over, and perhaps under coats of camo paint would not be visible, but it's clear whether or not the 'sealed' rivets would have been visible or not under the 'varnishes' that had the 5% or 10% aluminum added.  I'm inclined too think that some rivets  would have been visible, but to what extent is the question.   The AMMO kit is absolutely perfectly smooth, except for the panel lines, and I'm debating about  whether I should go through the effort of using a rivet tool to put them on my model, and if I do that, would I need to include every existing rivet, or just some 'representative' rivet details.  I didn't notice any significant panel color differences, but I may still consider making some visible one my model. 

Not worth it in my view. After it makes it to the display case all efforts will be forgotten. I have learned we are OCD in grandiose scale while building but after it is on the next project then what ? We don't even know what we corrected.Just be simple like our high school days. Dai 

Edited September 20, 2023 by dai phan

[Curt B]

11 minutes ago, dai phan said:

Not worth it in my view. After it makes it to the display case all efforts will be forgotten. I have learned we are OCD in grandiose scale while building but after it is on the next project then what ? We don't even know what we corrected.Just be simple like our high school days. Dai 

You are probably right.  As much as I would like to accurate (which really means OCD, as you wrote!) when it is all done, you move on to the next thing.  I was just pulling some of my completed models out of their display cases just the other day, and, frankly, I was more disappointed with my painting and weathering than the build details.  I have a LOT of work to do to get as good as I'd like to be with those basic things, without even worrying about adding details like rivets, especially when it's not very clear whether they were visible or not on aircraft when they were in service (not museum pieces, or derelicts left to rot).  I think I'll still work on picking out a few of the large panels with every slightly different tones, colors or gloss level, and call it a day.  Considering I have AT LEAST a hundred model kits in my stash that I'll never, ever touch, I guess I'd be better off spending my time building, painting and weathering, the things I KNOW I need to do better.  Thanks for the reality check, sir!!

[dai phan]

Hi all,

 

The limited editions have arrived. Dai 

 

Edited September 23, 2023 by dai phan

[haneto]

There is one J-5/MiG-17F hang up in China People's Revolution Military Museum and I took some photos last month.

Some rare angle to understand the rivets and details on belly/lower surface of wings.

 

[Curt B]

1 hour ago, haneto said:

There is one J-5/MiG-17F hang up in China People's Revolution Military Museum and I took some photos last month.

Some rare angle to understand the rivets and details on belly/lower surface of wings.

Great pictures...thank you!  It turns out that there are several MiGs, including a -17, at Nellis Air Force Base.   Since we live here in Las Vegas, a friend of mine is going to take me out there this coming week, and I'll be getting some photos of that plane as well, and on that basis, I'm going to make some final choices about how to proceed.  I'm inclined to follow Dai's advice, about just letting the riveting detail go, with the thought that after the model is done and sitting on the shelf, I won't be worried about the rivets or lack thererof.  But these photos, and maybe the ones I will be taking, may push me the other direction.  Honestly, I've never done any serious riveting work, except to restore when I've lost preexisting detail due to putty and sanding.  Which means, not much.  This might be a good opportunity.  We will see.

Edited September 24, 2023 by Curt B

[dai phan]

I live about 2 hours away from the Mighty 8th Air Force museum. It has a poorly inaccurate painted Mig 17 in VN colors parked outside. Dai 

[P-38 guy]

I got mine a few days ago. Just the regular version. Going to do one of the East German machines. I noticed the back of the instructions show other releases.

8510 Mig-17F Shenyang J-5, Vietnam, China, North Korea

8514 is the premium

8509 Mig-17F Lim-5, Poland, Cuba, Angola

8513 is the premium.

 

I am going to start this and set aside my current build that has lost some interest for me the past couple of weeks of inaction.

 

Mike

[ya-gabor]

On 9/24/2023 at 6:30 AM, Curt B said:

Great pictures...thank you!  It turns out that there are several MiGs, including a -17, at Nellis Air Force Base.   Since we live here in Las Vegas, a friend of mine is going to take me out there this coming week, and I'll be getting some photos of that plane as well, and on that basis, I'm going to make some final choices about how to proceed.  I'm inclined to follow Dai's advice, about just letting the riveting detail go, with the thought that after the model is done and sitting on the shelf, I won't be worried about the rivets or lack thererof.  But these photos, and maybe the ones I will be taking, may push me the other direction.  Honestly, I've never done any serious riveting work, except to restore when I've lost preexisting detail due to putty and sanding.  Which means, not much.  This might be a good opportunity.  We will see.

 

Hi Curt B,

 

As far as I know at Nellis there is (at least) one Polish made “Red 547” (overall grey with false North Korean markings retaining the original Polish a/c number) in front of the Threat Training Facility in the “Petting Zoo”. As far as I can see it has been moved around in the past. The one Guuugle image I have shows it inside an “area” along with many other “things”. It is about 200 metres to the South from Simons gate at the Southern end of the base. What is more fascinating is an original Red Eagles ex-Indonesian MiG-21F-13 (a/c 64) near a turn in front of Green Flag building about the same distance to the North from the same gate. On the opposite side of the road there are a lot of USAF aircraft on display. If you see them, have fun!!! If you manage to get there to look at these airframes, I envy you very much!!!!!!!!!

 

21 hours ago, dai phan said:

I live about 2 hours away from the Mighty 8th Air Force museum. It has a poorly inaccurate painted Mig 17 in VN colors parked outside. Dai 

 

Hi Dai Phan,

 

The “Red 46” in 8 th Air Force Museum is an interesting airframe but not for its imaginary paint scheme. More the aircraft itself. It is worth going there and having a closer look at different details on it. For example it has an early ejection seat, similar to the one in MiG-15’s. OK, I don’t thing that it is possible to open the cockpit for a closer look, but there are tons of other things on it which gives a modeller better understanding of a given subject. Have a look inside the undercarriage bays for a lot of details missing in the kits. There is both the air intake and the engine exhaust. All the antennas and service panels.

Actually this Red 46 shows well what a painted surface would look like! Rivets are simply invisible on them. Since almost all of the paint schemes in the AMMO kits are for camouflaged examples, it is not surprising that they simply left of all the surface riveting. On the other hand all the fasteners, service panel quick releases and even some bigger screw heads are perfectly visible. Now they are reproduced in the kit. This is what you will see on a camo aircraft and it is possible to play around with using all sorts of weathering techniques.  

 

There is also “Red 3020” in US museum with similar imaginary Vietnamese camo colours. The difference here is that it is a Chinese made J-5 version.

 

On 9/24/2023 at 5:34 AM, haneto said:

There is one J-5/MiG-17F hang up in China People's Revolution Military Museum and I took some photos last month.

Some rare angle to understand the rivets and details on belly/lower surface of wings.

 

Hi Yufei,

Very nice views of that J-5 showing the underside!! ! Thanks for sharing it here!

 

Best regards

Gabor

[dai phan]

Hi Gabor,

 

I may make a trip to the museum and take a tons of photos and post them here. Dai 

[ya-gabor]

1 hour ago, dai phan said:

Hi Gabor,

 

I may make a trip to the museum and take a tons of photos and post them here. Dai 

 

Hi Dai Phan,

 

Thanks!  I am sure it would be a lot of help to some building the MiG-17 kit/kits. Just as the photos from Yufei.

 

So now you have 2 "plain" version AMMO and 2 Limited with the extras ?

 

Best regards

Gabor