1/48 F-86A: it's almost here...

[dai phan]

Sabrejet, I find closed gun bays to be quite odd. Can you chime in? Dai 

[ya-gabor]

Here are some more views of the new Clear Prop 48th scale F-86A. Nice details visible and another view of those transparent parts.

 

Best regards

Gabor

[Sabrejet]

1 hour ago, dai phan said:

Sabrejet, I find closed gun bays to be quite odd. Can you chime in? Dai 

 

Not odd: open slats; open speed brakes; separate control surfaces. Where to end? The aftermarket will do something I'm sure. I'm not a fan of open gun bays since they aren't ubiquitous. Open canopy, speed brakes or dropped flaps more so.

[dai phan]

24 minutes ago, Sabrejet said:

 

Not odd: open slats; open speed brakes; separate control surfaces. Where to end? The aftermarket will do something I'm sure. I'm not a fan of open gun bays since they aren't ubiquitous. Open canopy, speed brakes or dropped flaps more so.

In my opinion, open gun bay is so prominent that I find it odd to forgo this main feature. Dai

[BWDenver]

On 4/17/2024 at 9:47 PM, Paul Boyer said:

I'll challenge your statement that the F-101 and F-102 "never flew in anger." But I get your point. On the Navy side Furies, Cutlass, Skyray, Cougar, Tiger, Demon weren't in combat and have been pretty well represented in plastic (yeah, I know, no decent Tiger in 1/48 yet). The USAF's F-89 Scorpion has seen its share of styrene as well.

Didn't the Cougar fly in Viet Nam?  And to your point, I seem to recall a story about an F-102 getting shot down by a MiG, if that isn't flying in combat, I don't know what was.  As to the 101, how about the RF-101?  The only Century series bird that didn't flying in Viet Nam was the 106.  Although it only deployed overseas once to Osan AB during the Pueblo capture/crisis.

 

The F-86A offering looks very nice, but I would love to see the 86H in 1/48.

 

Bryan

Edited April 23, 2024 by BWDenver

[Paul Boyer]

Yes, the Marines used TF-9J as fast FAC in Nam. Probably not many, but they were there!

(1/72 scale Sword kit.)

[Sabrejet]

6 hours ago, BWDenver said:

The F-86A offering looks very nice, but I would love to see the 86H in 1/48.

 

Bryan

 

One should never say 'never', but it looks a way off...

[RichB63]

11 hours ago, ya-gabor said:

Here are some more views of the new Clear Prop 48th scale F-86A. Nice details visible and another view of those transparent parts.

 

Best regards

Gabor

 

Looks like a winner!

[Raptor01]

The tied open early gun blast doors are pretty cool.  This is a going to sell well in the US.

 

John

[BWDenver]

12 hours ago, Paul Boyer said:

Yes, the Marines used TF-9J as fast FAC in Nam. Probably not many, but they were there!

(1/72 scale Sword kit.)

Nice build!  

 

I have that kit.   Looks very nice.  My intent is to do F9F-8T BuNo 142448, that was used at Pax to test the MB Mk.A5 seats.  Slightly nonstandard red marking, with a photo calibration line that extends from the nose to the area around the aft wing root on the LH side of the fuselage.  This was also probably the bird they used for the ground level demo in September 1957.  RAF pilot Sidney Hughes pulled the face curtain just as the nose wheel came unstuck.

[Sabrejet]

A few more teasers:

[Ben Brown]

Nice! Do the light grey wing parts have a smooth transition into the rest of the wing like the real thing or do they leave a lip?

 

Ben

 

 

[dai phan]

On 4/30/2024 at 2:11 AM, Sabrejet said:

A few more teasers:

No more teasers please! Take it off, take it all of !!! Do you know expected release date for the US? Dai 

[BWDenver]

1 hour ago, dai phan said:

No more teasers please! 

Speaking of teasers......

 

F-86A-5

 

Bryan

Edited May 2, 2024 by BWDenver

[Sabrejet]

6 hours ago, dai phan said:

No more teasers please! Take it off, take it all of !!! Do you know expected release date for the US? Dai 

 

Sorry I can't tell you: I just do the research! However I see one European kit store stating 'August', though I'm sure I read June elsewhere.

[ya-gabor]

A bit more of details on that new Clear Prop F-86A kit in 48 th scale.

 

Best regards

Gabor

[Sabrejet]

Box art...

[Ben Brown]

Looks like I’ll be retiring my Cutting Edge converted model. See previous page of this thread.

 

Ben

[BWDenver]

On 4/21/2024 at 8:01 AM, Sabrejet said:

I've had a chance too put the seat together today: looks great! Note that this is with minimal clean-up so any rough edges are mine.

 

 

It looks nice, but not to be nit picky, the 86A had an open frame seat....

 

The later birds had the sides closed in...

 

Bryan

Edited May 8, 2024 by BWDenver

[Sabrejet]

You are correct: the 'open' parts are easily removable panels; later versions of the F-86A seat incorporated these.

Edited May 8, 2024 by Sabrejet
typo

[dai phan]

17 hours ago, Ben Brown said:

Looks like I’ll be retiring my Cutting Edge converted model. See previous page of this thread.

 

Ben

I bought the short wing conversion from you but now will no longer use 🙂 Dai 

[Sabrejet]

17 hours ago, BWDenver said:

It looks nice, but not to be nit picky, the 86A had an open frame seat....

 

The later birds had the sides closed in...

 

Bryan

 

 

Bryan,

 

This is an A model seat being serviced, circa 1951: the side panels are just simple sheet metal parts with simple padded edges where the belts pass through.

[Ben Brown]

2 hours ago, dai phan said:

I bought the short wing conversion from you but now will no longer use 🙂 Dai 

 

It will still build up into a good looking F-86E! 🙂

 

Ben

[BWDenver]

The comments VSV the open or closed sides is partially correct.  Initially the F-86A seat had open sides.  At some point with postproduction modification, they closed the sides in with the panels, circa Feb 1952(?).  The IPB’s (individual Parts Breakdown) don’t clearly show how the early panels were attached to the seats, while the later F-86E/F are bolted in with 4 bolts each, at least from the IPB manuals.  There were 332 F-86A’s built, F-86A 49-1007 - 49-1339.

 

When they added the side panels for the F-86A, they initially retained the rounded footrests.  This appears to have changed in the 1956 (IIRC) time frame when they added gas actuators to the seats and changed to a square open-ended footrest.  However I have one ref from Nov 54 with squared off foot rests.  The shot of the seat above has a round closed footrest with a cable going back to the harness inertia reel.  The harness could also be locked manually.  The RH grip blows the canopy and fires the seat.  The initial LH grip locked the harness, later either handle would fire the seat.  On F-86A-5 on airplanes should the canopy not depart the bird, the pilot could go through the canopy on AC modified with TO 1F-86-161 and 1F-86-227.

 

In the 20 Apr 1948 P-86A -1 lists “low speed bailout” as blowing the canopy, rolling over on your back, and unlocking the safety belt and pushing out of the aircraft with your legs.  Only for “High Speed” ejection do you use the seat!  And if you tried it below 1500’ – 2000’  feet you likely would come to a bad end.  The initial F-86A had the T-4E-1 ballistic catapult, and a manual seat.    This was later modified to an M1A1 catapult fired by gas actuators, circa Mid 1956.  On airplanes modified by TO 1F-86-161 and 1F-86-227 the M1A1 cat was replaced by the M-5 catapult fired by a gas actuator.  The M-5 cat enabled crews to get out at around 200’

 

With the advent of 2 second belts and “Zero-Delay” parachute lanyard cords and upgraded catapults the survivability height came down to around 400’ or lower depending on equipment.  The auto Lap belts were either the MA-1, MA-3, Ma-4, MA-5 or an MA-6 auto belt opener.  But in 1957 they still lacked the “Zero-delay” parachute lanyard, instead using a parachute arming cord.

 

In the 1967 time frame the F-86F seats were modified per TO 1F-86-600 with ROCAT’s.  IE a Rocket Catapult.  The ROCAT gave the F-86F a 0-0 seat.  The ballistic cat was a 200’ seat with an uprated catapult and auto lap belt and “Zero-Delay” parachute lanyard.  While I have a lot of info on the 86A, F , D, F, H, L & K  I have almost nothing on the F-86E.

 

The shot of the kit seat is closed sided, and with square footrests, and lacking the “Bracket personal leads disconnect plates support” personal leads connection block for , G suit, O2 and Radio leads on the front of the seat.  I know that tid bit might be a bit in the weeds for some, but it is part of the real bird.  So, it is still likely wrong for an early F-86A.  Maybe as far out as 55/56?

 

 

The F-86A panels in the IPB are for usage codes D&G so again, again, not all F-86A’s had them.  When they went to the Gas Actuators in the 1956 time period the A/E/F seats were attached with 4 bolts.  All F-86A with gas actuators are depicted as having closed in sides.

 

As an FYSA, the triggers were secured with 0.020 coper safety wire.

 

In a 1956 copy of the “Escape Committee” document I have they lamented that the F-86 had 10 different seats from a functionality standard.  While superficially the US F-86’s had two seats from a structural standpoint they had 10 total sub variants when you took into account how the seats worked.  That was one of the driving reasons the USAF WADC (Wright Air Development Center) was pushing for a “standard seat” that would apply to all airframes.  They never really got it until the advent of the ACES II seats.

 

The “Escape committee” was a group made up of manufacture representatives and military managers.  To be a manufacture representative you had to make airplanes.  Folks like bob Stanley were left out in the cold.

 

The F-86’s had 2 major US seats, with a total of 10 sub variants.  For Overseas MAP (Military Assistance Program) clients several MB Mk.5 seats and finally MB Mk.HN10Z seats for Norway, Denmark, Germany and Honduras as a retrofit, Per Martin-Baker.  I got to see some of the Honduran F-86’s in 1986 when I there flying on a road building project for the Army.  the last piece of line art is the "final" F-86A seat with the uprated catapult and gas actuators.

 

Build it any way you like, it's your model, but if you can get it "right", so much the better.  Not everyone had a 4-drawer filing cabinet dedicated to ejection seats...  

 

But I do...

 

And you have to love the humor in the manuals of the 50’s and early 60’s.  Today it would get you strung up or fired for “Lack of confidence” ….

 

At some point I'll cover the F-86 airframes in the "Jet AC ejections seats" thread I'm building in ARC.  But presently I'm working on a Panther\Cougar and an F-80/T-33/T-1A thread.

[Sabrejet]

Thanks for this Bryan: much appreciated.

 

Design of the kit is the result of attempting to incorporate as much as possible while still making it a realistic option as a commercial product. A good example is the minor fuselage panel difference between 48-FY and 49-FY F-86As. 99.9% of people won't notice, know or care and the other 0.1% can make the change easily if they want to. The alternative option would be to have drop-in parts to replicate those minor differences. The kit already does this for the obvious items (gun blast panels for example); ditto for airspeed probes, however I already noted one complaint about these optional parts being wasted plastic. Proof that you can't please all the people all of the time; hopefully the vast majority will be happy.

 

Unfortunately, while production or T.O.-mandated changes are mentioned in the IPB, dash-1 etc, their timeline is more difficult to pin down. Hence, the known incorporation of side panels on the seat for Korean War F-86As in/by 1951 makes it a sensible option instead of going into various seat options in the kit. The fabricated foot rests are visible in shots of F-86As concurrent with the cast "NAA logo" type, so that too is a reasonable choice. It's possible that the aftermarket will spend time on this but it's not a difficult modification to make, if you know the correct seat status for the aircraft you are modelling.

 

These aircraft went through two distinct modification lines during their careers: Long Beach initially to bring all aircraft up to 'late F-86A' standard (airspeed probe re-siting; gun blast panel replacement etc) and then later when all aircraft were brought up to F-86A-6/7 standard with aluminum intake ring and associated gunsight etc. Those dates are known for every machine built. In between that, some items were modified out-of-phase (seat, ability to carry 120-gal tanks, deletion of drop tank sway braces etc). Those are the areas which are more difficult to monitor and put a date to. For example there are records of canopy and tank modifications at local level within 1st FGp records, but no mention of seat mods in either 1st FGp or 4th FGp records.

 

The search goes on, but you never know what you don't know.