Streem Su-24 - Will it be released again?

[Ham]

Do we know who has the molds for the Streem (Strim) Su-24 now? I would sure like to see this kit released again. Perhaps ICM could do the job. Clean up the molds, upgrade the cockpit, etc.

[Berkut]

Do we know who has the molds for the Streem (Strim) Su-24 now? I would sure like to see this kit released again. Perhaps ICM could do the job. Clean up the molds, upgrade the cockpit, etc.

That would be very nice indeed, but honestly i have big doubts. It was produced by a rather small company, and god knows where those molds are now.

[haneto]

I think that the time and money required to upgrade that short run mold will no cheaper than the expense to make a new mold......

If you really want it at the moment,Ebay is the only choice,maybe.

Two days ago one Stream Su-24M was finally sold by by negotiated price USD40.- from Germany ,which listed for at least 2 weeks.

Good luck!

Yufei

[juanchopancho]

Yeah I got one one ebay several months ago, delivered all the way from Russia. It took about 5 months until these two popped up on ebay.

Just go on ebay and search "Stream SU-24 1/72" and save it the search. Make sure the search is Worldwide. If one shows up, ebay should send you an automated alert. Most people don't know to look for this kit so it sells between $60 & $40.

Edited May 24, 2009 by juanchopancho

[Ham]

Thanks guys. I already have a copy of the kit, I just wanted to know if it will be released again. It seems the consensus here that molds that are not destroyed will be released again, sometimes under a different label. I was hoping some of our Russian or Ukrainian friends would know what happened to the Streem molds.

The Streem Su-24 sure is a nice kit. It would be great to get it back on the market.

[MoFo]

I don't know that I'd say that. I *suspect* that they were probably using limited run tooling. Maybe plated resin, maybe a softer metal. I'd doubt they were long-run steel. So there may not be a tooling TO re-release - it could be worn out. Or there may not be any interest in re-releasing them (as mentioned, it'd be cheaper and easier for RoG to tool their own than to re-work Streem's). I suspect that, if you ever do see them again, it'll be from some small, Russian company, maybe even descended from Streem (who themselves were descended from Gran, IIRC). *Possibly* someone like ICM or Condor, but that's a bit of a long shot.

If I were to guess, I'd say it'll be a few years, if they ever come back at all.

[Laurent]

If Voka Gran still exists, they could rerelease the Streem kit (tooled by VES). They did rerelease the VES Su-15 and Pe-2 after all.

[kotey]

Voka-Gran not working more, than 1 year, so better not avaiting Su-24M from this firm.

[AnthonyWan]

Trumpeter could just release their damn kit :)

[Berkut]

Trumpeter could just release their damn kit

Wrong scale... ;)

But yes, i will buy the trump kit.

[Yuri]

MoFo is right... short-run molds usually wear out after only a few "shots" (maybe tens or hundreds depending on the kind of mold they used). Every time the mold becomes less and less usable, up to a point when what comes out is a blob of plastic...

So the original mold in now probably useless...

BUT

Depending on HOW they designed the mold (old school wood or acetate pattern? 21st century CAD drawings? Who knows?) there could still be a good source of things to make a new one...

[Gene K]

Gene K

[Ham]

Hmmm, Zvezda is releasing a "new 2009" Su-24 in 1/72 scale. So we need to figure out if this is the Streem kit or the "old" Zvezda/DML/Dragon/Revell Germany Su-24 kit from the early 1990's. My guess is this Zvezda kit is the "old" Zvezda/DML/Dragon/Revell Germany Su-24 kit as it has the "goose" pitot probe of the early models and the Streem kit was only released as an Su-24M.

Oh, the humanity. In the meantime, I bought another Streem kit so I have a spare.

Edited May 28, 2009 by Ham

[JeskiM]

Gene K

Looks to be the old DML, etc model:

Sprues/Instructions

[MoFo]

Definately the DML kit.

Shame, but then it was really to be expected, since they *did* re-box the late-model Fencer a while back.

As for Yuri's comments. It's true that we may well see some descendant of the Streem kit released by someone else. If (*if*) it was designed with CAD software for instance, I would think it would be pretty easy for another manufacturer to cut their own steel using Streem's files (*if* I was Mr. Trumpeter, I'd be making some serious inquiries on the Russian model scene rather than developing my own CAD drawings).

However, looking at the surface detail (particularly the rivet detail), it always struck me that the kit had a very 'hand made' feel to it - like the rivets were done with a pounce wheel. There's a slightly raised lip to one side of the rivets, like the plastic has been pushed away by a tool. To me, that suggests they didn't use any sort of metal tooling. Because of the technical requirements of cutting a metal tooling (you're grinding out a recess that will form the 'skin' of the parts, grinding away everything BUT the panel lines), you're not going to see that kind of subtle raised lip from a steel tooling. The reason why panel lines and rivets usually have slightly soft, rounded edges is because the carbide blades used to carve out the tooling can't get into the microscopic corners to perfectly cut and polish the tooling. Even on Tamiya kits. So there's no way you could get a detail *that* subtle on a kit that's otherwise somewhat crude.

To me, that suggests that they probably made "full size" masters (full size of what you get in the kit, rather than scaling over-sized parts down to 1/72), and made a resin tooling of those parts. Resin tooling used to be very common in the cottage industry, and it's about the cheapest way to produce a set of molds for injection molding. They may well have plated that tooling then - it's a common way to extend the life of a resin tooling (MPM did this when they were still limited run; Special Hobby may well STILL do it, as far as I'm aware). But still, the sprues in your box would be plastic duplicates of the original masters.

Which makes a re-release a bit of a toss-up. *If* I'm right (and this is all just BS speculation, really), and the kit used a resin tooling of 1/72 masters, then you're not going to see it re-released by any of the bigger names like Revell, or even Zvezda or ICM. They would *probably* have to buy the Streem masters, digitize them, create their own, new CAD drawings, then cut new, steel tooling. So it'd be more economical to just do it all in-house. On the other hand, *if* there's another tiny, guy-in-his-basement type operation in Russia who's doing limited run, low pressure resin tooling stuff (something on the scale of Gran, or VES, or Master Box), they would be able to re-release the kit, and it could actually be a pretty cost effective way to generate some sales and build brand awareness, since the Streem kit IS fairly desireable. And since those sorts of manufacturers seem to come and go regularly, it doesn't seem unreasonable that *someone* would approach Mr. Streem to try to buy his masters (or cut a deal on a re-pop, or whatever).

Funny thing is, my first thought when fondling the kit when it was new, looking at all that detail, knowing that the masters or CAD drawings or whatever the kit was based on must have been absolutely fantastic and feeling it was a shame that it suffered because of the fairly crude limited run nature of the kit, was just how amazing it would be if Revell Germany cut steel tooling of just exactly these same parts. Take the same exact... whatever... that the Streem kit was produced from, but with Revell's higher production values and crisper tooling (and since they're probably about the best at 1/72 rivets). Sigh....

[janman]

Definately the DML kit.

Shame, but then it was really to be expected, since they *did* re-box the late-model Fencer a while back.

As for Yuri's comments. It's true that we may well see some descendant of the Streem kit released by someone else. If (*if*) it was designed with CAD software for instance, I would think it would be pretty easy for another manufacturer to cut their own steel using Streem's files (*if* I was Mr. Trumpeter, I'd be making some serious inquiries on the Russian model scene rather than developing my own CAD drawings).

However, looking at the surface detail (particularly the rivet detail), it always struck me that the kit had a very 'hand made' feel to it - like the rivets were done with a pounce wheel. There's a slightly raised lip to one side of the rivets, like the plastic has been pushed away by a tool. To me, that suggests they didn't use any sort of metal tooling. Because of the technical requirements of cutting a metal tooling (you're grinding out a recess that will form the 'skin' of the parts, grinding away everything BUT the panel lines), you're not going to see that kind of subtle raised lip from a steel tooling. The reason why panel lines and rivets usually have slightly soft, rounded edges is because the carbide blades used to carve out the tooling can't get into the microscopic corners to perfectly cut and polish the tooling. Even on Tamiya kits. So there's no way you could get a detail *that* subtle on a kit that's otherwise somewhat crude.

To me, that suggests that they probably made "full size" masters (full size of what you get in the kit, rather than scaling over-sized parts down to 1/72), and made a resin tooling of those parts. Resin tooling used to be very common in the cottage industry, and it's about the cheapest way to produce a set of molds for injection molding. They may well have plated that tooling then - it's a common way to extend the life of a resin tooling (MPM did this when they were still limited run; Special Hobby may well STILL do it, as far as I'm aware). But still, the sprues in your box would be plastic duplicates of the original masters.

Which makes a re-release a bit of a toss-up. *If* I'm right (and this is all just BS speculation, really), and the kit used a resin tooling of 1/72 masters, then you're not going to see it re-released by any of the bigger names like Revell, or even Zvezda or ICM. They would *probably* have to buy the Streem masters, digitize them, create their own, new CAD drawings, then cut new, steel tooling. So it'd be more economical to just do it all in-house. On the other hand, *if* there's another tiny, guy-in-his-basement type operation in Russia who's doing limited run, low pressure resin tooling stuff (something on the scale of Gran, or VES, or Master Box), they would be able to re-release the kit, and it could actually be a pretty cost effective way to generate some sales and build brand awareness, since the Streem kit IS fairly desireable. And since those sorts of manufacturers seem to come and go regularly, it doesn't seem unreasonable that *someone* would approach Mr. Streem to try to buy his masters (or cut a deal on a re-pop, or whatever).

Funny thing is, my first thought when fondling the kit when it was new, looking at all that detail, knowing that the masters or CAD drawings or whatever the kit was based on must have been absolutely fantastic and feeling it was a shame that it suffered because of the fairly crude limited run nature of the kit, was just how amazing it would be if Revell Germany cut steel tooling of just exactly these same parts. Take the same exact... whatever... that the Streem kit was produced from, but with Revell's higher production values and crisper tooling (and since they're probably about the best at 1/72 rivets). Sigh....

Oh, how I truly long for that kit - when it was still in the box.

Yes, it was a bit crude but yet so detailed and one could be almost 100% sure all the dimensions were correct. It just somehow looked *so* good even when still unassembled.

[Laurent]

*If* I'm right (and this is all just BS speculation, really), and the kit used a resin tooling of 1/72 masters, then you're not going to see it re-released by any of the bigger names like Revell, or even Zvezda or ICM. They would *probably* have to buy the Streem masters, digitize them, create their own, new CAD drawings, then cut new, steel tooling.

I don't think ICM should on the list. I mostly buy kits because I'm interested in the depicted subject but not always. I also like what I call 'gem kits'. The first I've bought was Amodel's Yak-9P. It was evident that masters were riveted with some kind of Rosie the Riveter tool. It features slightly raised panels, stressed skin effect too. Is the trend continuing ? It looks like it. I don't know how ICM's He-70 was tooled but this kit is definitely a 'gem kit'. I wonder if it's paintable without drowning the whole riveting: it could need a 1/72 scale airbrush spraying 1/72 scale viscosity paint Would mass market like an NMF jets (F-100/104, Mirage IIIC, etc) with such detailing (scale riveting, stressed panels, etc). I'm not sure. "I can't build this: I'll ruin this beauty" reaction of the customer perhaps so mainstream manufactured may not be interested to release 'gem kits''.

Edited May 28, 2009 by Laurent

[pin]

I don't know how ICM's He-70 was tooled but this kit is definitely a 'gem kit'.

The master for this kit was made by well known ukrainian modeller Valentin Muchichko, also known as "Savoya". Here is the link to his article about building the master model for He-70:

http://dishmodels.ru/gshow.htm?p=3553

If you don't read Russian (and most probably you don't) - use Google translator (or alike):

http://translate.google.com/translate?&amp...sl=ru&tl=en

Another masterpiece from the same author:

http://dishmodels.ru/gshow.htm?p=1339

Edited May 29, 2009 by pin