American Civil War Sesquicentenial

[Flyingfortress]

Respects to all involved. :)

[Steve N]

I've done my part for reconciliation. I'm from Michigan, and married a gal from Alabama!

SN

[Jennings]

I'm a Tarheel by birth, raised up in Michigan, and now living in the Old South once more, having lived from the Deep Old South (Florida) to the wilds of Alaska and a good few places in between.

I'm a great-great grandson of at least one Confederate veteran (buried at Mt. Jackson, Virginia), but I *so* want to get a bumper sticker with the stars & bars on it that reads something to the effect of:

"It was 150 years ago. We lost. Get over it." :)

But I'd probably get shot around these here parts....

[71roadrunner426]

I am born and raised in Pa, and moved to Florida from 07-09 after 38yrs in Northeast, Pa, I ran across some people that still hated Northerners (AKA Snowbirds) especially the ones from Pa, because of Gettysburg, I was stunned. I thought they were joking but they were pretty serious. These people have to get over it already, we are all Americans that's just my experience with some of these ignorant people.

[toadwbg]

My great Grandmother, born in 1889, used to tell me stories as a kid about Civil War Veterans who were missing a leg or arm- really stuck out in her memory.

Great Grandma used to tell me about stories of Cowboys and Indians too- REAL ones!

[ikar]

I'm a defector. I'm from New Jersey, my ancestor was half owner of a company that provided the workings for the rifles used by the Union Army, and now I live in Florida.

It could have been fate thought that I'd be here, I'm named after my Father's Air Corps flight instructor who was a direct decendant of General Lee.

[Skyraider Maniac]

I am born and raised in Pa, and moved to Florida from 07-09 after 38yrs in Northeast, Pa, I ran across some people that still hated Northerners (AKA Snowbirds) especially the ones from Pa, because of Gettysburg, I was stunned. I thought they were joking but they were pretty serious. These people have to get over it already, we are all Americans that's just my experience with some of these ignorant people.

With all due respect..... Your attitude towards the "ignorant southerner" is precisely the reason there's folks out there who still have a complete dislike for Yankees. Your arrogant and offensive assumption is pretty ignorant and prejudiced itself. The "we're all americans" crap doesn't quite cut it where I come from; not to mean we're not patriotic; but the attitudes shown towards us by our "Northern Brethren" do not often reflect this particular trait, as they often expect of us...

Now before I get ahead of myself - I'm not throwing all Yankee's into the same pot; I have some pretty good friends who are of yankee origin, that are some pretty good and decent folks. Biggest thing in their favor: they are neither presumptuous and bigoted; and much much more, they do not FORCE their yankee way of life on us.

Hostility primarily stems from the lack of respect paid by yankees. Normal yankee thought patterns seem to conclude that the southern peoples are a bunch of ignorant, ill-educated (or altogether lack thereof), redneck, illiterate bunch of hillbillies; a group of moonshiners that don't know their butt from first base; and not to mention they think of us as being stupid - that our southern dialect is "retarded". Now, before some of ya'll go get your panties in a wad, demanding "proof"; my proof is personal experience.

Having lived in the Commonwealth of Virginia and in the great state of NC - I've gotten my fair share of these "experiences". Biggest problem encountered is when these yankee know-it-alls transplant down here (like in the DC and Charlotte areas) and bring these ideas and presumptions with them; treating southerners the way they [yankees] think they [southerners] really are. Having done landscaping for some time in a past life in the Charlotte area for these rich Yankee bankers, I can say I've thoroughly had enough. It gets even worse when they move down into rural parts of a state, bringing their lifestyles with them, trying to overthrow the slow and easy southern way of life. To make matters worse, they come down, retire, buy up a lot of real estate - then sell it so high that none of the original local populous can afford such a living; thereby causing a population shift. It's like a slow "invasion" - only with really bad results (I've seen housing go from a meager $100,000 on some properties to well over $400,000 for the same lot - in a rural area). So no need to assume we're still holding on to past grudges - there's enough stuff ongoing currently to keep us irritated.

So, you could say we don't appreciate the "invasion" - that in and of itself is a sore spot; secondly, we really don't appreciate having our way of life changed by outsiders; and finally, we REALLY don't appreciate the disrepect shown and openly demonstrated by these "transplants". This is a really big reason as to why Charlotte is considered an "island" in the state of NC (too many yankees), and why much of the state (especially the eastern side) will have nothing to do with them.

Now, when yankees move down and mind their own business, and don't demonstrate the above stated "offenses"; I could care less what they do or where they go. They're being a peaceful member of souther society and aren't a problem.

As for me - I am a Southerner; not a 'hillbilly' or 'redneck' - there's too many idiots that call themselves that, and aren't necessarily southern. To me, a Southern Gentleman is the epitome of what a Southerner really is, end of story.

Deo Vindice

Respectfully,

Justin

[toadwbg]

Well that was....non constructive....

[Fishwelding]

Deo Vindice

Respectfully,

Justin

An old-school Southern anti-capitalist take, with class warfare, appeals to a moral economy, and mustache-twisting, scheming, grasping Yankee bankers. If you'd added how greedy Northern investors probably own most of your infrastructure and regional debt, you'd have the complete set of first-edition Dixiecrat populist sentiments. Wow, I thought that rural populism had all but died out, replaced by the new "lean" imported auto plants, the growth of the Sunbelt metropolises, and Big Oil. Be careful handling that political collection; it's an antique! If your neighbors think like you, the New Right's new strength in the Old South might be as overrated as the New Left's strength on the West Coast. William Jennings Bryan! Huey Long! Woody Guthrie! Tennessee Valley Authority! LBJ! Arise again!

Now see what I just did there? Mine was a political observation, not a political argument, (and made in a fairly lighthearted tone, mind you). Only a clinical assessment of a regional set of beliefs, and it's political and historic implications. I wasn't telling anyone how they should think. It was also a speculation; I have no idea if other Southerners share Justin's class-conscious view toward American economic development.

On an unrelated note, I a few weeks ago I was interested to learn that Lee's artilleryman, E. Porter Alexander, landed on his feet after the Civil War as a successful railroad man. Wrote a good book on the Railroad business, too.

Edited April 13, 2011 by Fishwelding

[Par429]

Hey-

I grew up in MA and and have several ancestors with Civil War experience. When my grandfather passed, I was amazed to discover in his attic a box of old letters, including 80 written by a soldier in the 15th Mass Vol Infantry. One of the fighting 300 regiments of the Civil War. He fought in numerous battles. He was wounded twice, the second time seriously at the "bloody angle" at Spotsylvania. According to one of the letters, written home to his family by a nurse at a hospital in Fredericksburg, the "ball passed through his arm, into his side and out his back". Incredibly enough, he survived that wound and lived to 88 years old. He was all of 20 years old when he signed up. Amazing.

Phil

[71roadrunner426]

With all due respect..... Your attitude towards the "ignorant southerner" is precisely the reason there's folks out there who still have a complete dislike for Yankees. Your arrogant and offensive assumption is pretty ignorant and prejudiced itself. The "we're all americans" crap doesn't quite cut it where I come from; not to mean we're not patriotic; but the attitudes shown towards us by our "Northern Brethren" do not often reflect this particular trait, as they often expect of us...

Now before I get ahead of myself - I'm not throwing all Yankee's into the same pot; I have some pretty good friends who are of yankee origin, that are some pretty good and decent folks. Biggest thing in their favor: they are neither presumptuous and bigoted; and much much more, they do not FORCE their yankee way of life on us.

Hostility primarily stems from the lack of respect paid by yankees. Normal yankee thought patterns seem to conclude that the southern peoples are a bunch of ignorant, ill-educated (or altogether lack thereof), redneck, illiterate bunch of hillbillies; a group of moonshiners that don't know their butt from first base; and not to mention they think of us as being stupid - that our southern dialect is "retarded". Now, before some of ya'll go get your panties in a wad, demanding "proof"; my proof is personal experience.

Having lived in the Commonwealth of Virginia and in the great state of NC - I've gotten my fair share of these "experiences". Biggest problem encountered is when these yankee know-it-alls transplant down here (like in the DC and Charlotte areas) and bring these ideas and presumptions with them; treating southerners the way they [yankees] think they [southerners] really are. Having done landscaping for some time in a past life in the Charlotte area for these rich Yankee bankers, I can say I've thoroughly had enough. It gets even worse when they move down into rural parts of a state, bringing their lifestyles with them, trying to overthrow the slow and easy southern way of life. To make matters worse, they come down, retire, buy up a lot of real estate - then sell it so high that none of the original local populous can afford such a living; thereby causing a population shift. It's like a slow "invasion" - only with really bad results (I've seen housing go from a meager $100,000 on some properties to well over $400,000 for the same lot - in a rural area). So no need to assume we're still holding on to past grudges - there's enough stuff ongoing currently to keep us irritated.

So, you could say we don't appreciate the "invasion" - that in and of itself is a sore spot; secondly, we really don't appreciate having our way of life changed by outsiders; and finally, we REALLY don't appreciate the disrepect shown and openly demonstrated by these "transplants". This is a really big reason as to why Charlotte is considered an "island" in the state of NC (too many yankees), and why much of the state (especially the eastern side) will have nothing to do with them.

Now, when yankees move down and mind their own business, and don't demonstrate the above stated "offenses"; I could care less what they do or where they go. They're being a peaceful member of souther society and aren't a problem.

As for me - I am a Southerner; not a 'hillbilly' or 'redneck' - there's too many idiots that call themselves that, and aren't necessarily southern. To me, a Southern Gentleman is the epitome of what a Southerner really is, end of story.

Deo Vindice

Respectfully,

Justin

Listen, when I said ignorant people I didn't say southern people, you did. I'm just saying the few that I ran into weren't very kind, you blew this all out of proportion and as you say "Northern Brethren" sure there are a lot of Northern people like that, I look at it this way, you treat me with respect and I will do the same no matter what color you are or what part of the world you are from and to quote your remark "your attitude towards the ignorant Southerner" is bull,like I said treat me with respect and you will get the same. That's my end of story

'

[Fishwelding]

It's sort of interesting how close we are to the Civil War. Think for a moment that Douglas MacArthur graduated West Point in 1903. This means that the guy very likely met the last of the Civil War veterans as they were ending or had just ended their careers. Nelson Miles, for example, retired in 1903. So a veteran of the Army of the Potomac was in the same Army, albeit briefly, with a guy who led our forces in Korea.

[RandomCatFacts]

"Tom Cat" was a Confederate mascot at Fort McAllister, Georgia, in the American Civil War.

[Big Texan]

Well, after 150 years, are we a united nation? To be sure, the ending of slavery had to happen. Slavery was, and is, indefensable. That being said, we are still very much a nation divided with gaping wounds to this day. Before the civil war, states had the majority of power. After the civil war, the dawn of the all powerful Federal govt. with weak state governments came about. We have regional differences between North, South, East, Central, and West. We are more divided as a people with every group trying to best the others or be equal with others. Back then it was only North and South, today we are fractured by religion, gender, sexual orientation, ethnicity, race, color, you name it! Lincoln had it easy! He only had two factions to deal with! We have come along way since then, but the old wounds and the strive for freedom from an ever encroaching, liberty taking, "nanny state" thinking, Federal govt. We have become a nation of "Hyphenated Americans" instead of simply being an "American".

Did any of you realize that the South didn't celebrate the 4th of July until after the Spanish American War? To the South, there was nothing to celebrate because they felt that their independence was forcibly taken from them. The cause of the Spanish American War, and WW I later, restored the sense of being American. WW II re-unified the nation completely and healed many of the old wounds. The 1960's to today, unfortunately, have re-openned many of the old wounds from the past. Also, the rise of tyranny from our own government.

My family has been here since 1737. My ancestors have either served in the military or participated in every conflict since the French & Indian War to Desert Storm. My son wants to carry on that tradition by being a Navy SEaL when he grows up, an ambition since he was 5. I served for 10 years in the Air Force, a Desert Storm Veteran, and still serve to this day in the FAA as a radar technician. My entire adult working life spent in serving my country. I love my country very much and dismayed by all the hostility that goes on today. By the behavior and actions of those who call themselves our "representatives". By my countrymen who feel our nation is a "bad" nation. By all the in fighting of so many different groups. Have we learned nothing in all these years? Was the sacrifice of so many, for so long, all in vain? I hope not, I pray not.

As for the civil war, I had 12 ancestors that fought in it. Six served with the Union, six served with the Confederacy. A family divided. They all came from what became the State of West Virginia. Amazingly, all of them survived the war! All of them realized then, that a house divided can not stand. They reconciled after the war and were hard working farmers, God fearing men.

I earnestly pray that our nation is healed. That the great experiment of a land with a government of the people, by the people, and for the people, shall not perish. Whether we like it or not, the United States is the beacon of hope and freedom for the world. Should we perish, the world will truly enter another "Dark Age" like it has never known. I pray that this never happens, the futures of so many, depends on us in so many many ways. This is my take 150 years later.

[Skyraider Maniac]

An old-school Southern anti-capitalist take, with class warfare, appeals to a moral economy, and mustache-twisting, scheming, grasping Yankee bankers.

In all seriousness - they were indeed Yankee bankers; Charlotte was (if not still is) the number 2 banking center in the whole USofA... So as a landscaper, a large number of my former clients just so happened to be these Yankee banking types.. Who never liked to pay on time... (which I found ironic being that they worked with money.... I don't like working for doctors either, on that note - they seem to be equally stingy).

Listen, when I said ignorant people I didn't say southern people, you did. I'm just saying the few that I ran into weren't very kind, you blew this all out of proportion and as you say "Northern Brethren" sure there are a lot of Northern people like that, I look at it this way, you treat me with respect and I will do the same no matter what color you are or what part of the world you are from and to quote your remark "your attitude towards the ignorant Southerner" is bull,like I said treat me with respect and you will get the same. That's my end of story

No - you didn't outrightly in plain English say "southerner" - but to whom else are you referring to? By saying these folks are ignorant, you group all who still hold disdain towards Yankees as ignorant. I don't appreciate it. And I'm not just choosing you to pick on - I've heard mess like that a lot over the years. So if it's going to be mentioned openly - I'm going to respond openly. And while these southerners' unkind behavior is, depending on severity, uncalled for - can you ultimately blame them when they're treated with such hostility by the visiting or transplanted northerner within their own borders? You do admit there are those Yankees that share disdain towards southerners and their culture; so why must a southerner be counted as ignorant for having hostile affections towards such a people? Especially after having to endure such treatment for many years at the hands of these "brothers"? Now, i say that to answer this; you expect respect, and you'll give it - no issue there; but for some southerners it's a hard thing considering what I've mentioned above. So ultimately, think about it from their perspective as well. And while you may not be a harsh person, there's been plenty from there who have been.

As for "Gettysburg" - that's rather irrevelent to me - I take more issue with Sherman's campaign through Georgia.... :D

[airrex]

Bravo! well put Big Texan. We are one nation now. I'm not sure non-southerners understand what it means to be southern. As I can tell you I have no idea what it's like to be a northerner. I am proud to be born in the south. Born in Alabama, once called "The Heart of Dixie". BTW Big Texan, I lived 20 years in Texas and consider at least part of my self "Texan". I love Texas. My past kin were not slave owners. They were dirt poor mostly sharecroppers.

[Fishwelding]

In all seriousness - they were indeed Yankee bankers; Charlotte was (if not still is) the number 2 banking center in the whole USofA... So as a landscaper, a large number of my former clients just so happened to be these Yankee banking types.. Who never liked to pay on time... (which I found ironic being that they worked with money.... I don't like working for doctors either, on that note - they seem to be equally stingy).

Comrade! We await your leadership in the coming revolution! Tell me, should we first confiscate the property of the Yankee bankers, or the Yankee insurance companies, or perhaps the Yankee industrialists?! Workers of the World Unite under the hammer of the Southern Worker, the Sickle of the Southern Farmer, and the Red Banner of the South!

Oh, and I'd also plan on warring on British capitalists, too. After all, it was they who betrayed the Southern states in the Civil War. You counted on them, in their dependence on King Cotton, to break the perfidious Yankee blockade, and instead, like typical double-dealing capitalists, they simply got cotton elsewhere--a market "correction." (Quite sorry, old chap. Nothing personal. Just business, you know.)

With all due respect, I think people have an inflated view of how "united" the United States were in the past. Shays Rebellion? Whiskey Rebellion? In the 1790s, there were fistfights in Congress over issues like the Alien and Sedition Acts, the Quasi-War with France, and the future of the U.S. economy. In the contested election of 1800, states called out their militia, fearing trouble. Party politics subsided very briefly, in Monroe's administration, and then were back stronger with Jackson. The anti-immigrant and anti-Catholic rhetoric was very strong prior to the Civil War, when Irish and German immigrants flooded into our cities. We had regular riots in our cities, and bitter division over the invasion of Mexico. The last issue can be connected to the slavery debate, but all the others were strong, angry divisions of their own. During the 19th Century, regular army soldiers didn't get much respect from civilian society. Today, our differences seem rather tame in retrospect.

Edited April 13, 2011 by Fishwelding

[Old Blind Dog]

I am descended from Union veterans on both sides of my family (Iowa sent PER CAPITA the most volunteers of any state). My great great grandfather, Hersey Pratt, served as an officer in one of the so-called "colored" Union regiments (as portrayed in the film "Glory"); his regiment took part in Sherman's march to the sea.

I am proud of my ancestors, and the many thousands who made the sacrifice to preserve the Union.

Having said this, I would only add: it's been 150 years; it would really be nice if we could all just move on.

cheers

Old Blind Dog

[11bee]

Comrade! We await your leadership in the coming revolution! Tell me, should we first confiscate the property of the Yankee bankers, or the Yankee insurance companies, or perhaps the Yankee industrialists?! Workers of the World Unite under the hammer of the Southern Worker, the Sickle of the Southern Farmer, and the Red Banner of the South!

Oh, and I'd also plan on warring on British capitalists, too. After all, it was they who betrayed the Southern states in the Civil War. You counted on them, in their dependence on King Cotton, to break the perfidious Yankee blockade, and instead, like typical double-dealing capitalists, they simply got cotton elsewhere--a market "correction." (Quite sorry, old chap. Nothing personal. Just business, you know.)

LOL...

Am I the only guy in this thread that just doesn't care? Don't get me wrong, I'm respectful of the soldiers of both sides, am awed by the sheer amount of bloodshed and enjoy reading up on the history of the war. I had a distant relative that died at Lookout Mountain (fighting for the north). However, I find it laughable that some people are still emotional over this subject. It's over. It's been over long before you or your parents or your grandparents were born. If you get this heated over the subject, are you still p*ssed off at the Brits for a couple of other wars? Gotta move on at some point people....

As for that post about the "Yankees" (I didn't think anyone used that word anymore, except to discuss a much-disliked baseball team), if you substituted that word with the name of a much-persecuted religion, it would come pretty darned close to some of the radical fringe rants you occasionally come across on the net.

The Yankee is the source of all evil. He owns the banks, he steals our land, he is not like us good citizens, etc, etc.

Truly weird (and slightly disturbing) stuff.....

[Skyraider Maniac]

Comrade! We await your leadership in the coming revolution! Tell me, should we first confiscate the property of the Yankee bankers, or the Yankee insurance companies, or perhaps the Yankee industrialists?! Workers of the World Unite under the hammer of the Southern Worker, the Sickle of the Southern Farmer, and the Red Banner of the South!

Oh, and I'd also plan on warring on British capitalists, too. After all, it was they who betrayed the Southern states in the Civil War. You counted on them, in their dependence on King Cotton, to break the perfidious Yankee blockade, and instead, like typical double-dealing capitalists, they simply got cotton elsewhere--a market "correction." (Quite sorry, old chap. Nothing personal. Just business, you know.)

With all due respect, I think people have an inflated view of how "united" the United States were in the past. Shays Rebellion? Whiskey Rebellion? In the 1790s, there were fistfights in Congress over issues like the Alien and Sedition Acts, the Quasi-War with France, and the future of the U.S. economy. In the contested election of 1800, states called out their militia, fearing trouble. Party politics subsided very briefly, in Monroe's administration, and then were back stronger with Jackson. The anti-immigrant and anti-Catholic rhetoric was very strong prior to the Civil War, when Irish and German immigrants flooded into our cities. We had regular riots in our cities, and bitter division over the invasion of Mexico. The last issue can be connected to the slavery debate, but all the others were strong, angry divisions of their own. During the 19th Century, regular army soldiers didn't get much respect from civilian society. Today, our differences seem rather tame in retrospect.

your responses are always great - like alvis, you should do a book :D

As for the Brits, we ought to throw the French in with them since they both were supposedly supporting the southern cause? Just a thought.....

[Fishwelding]

LOL...

Am I the only guy in this thread that just doesn't care? Don't get me wrong, I'm respectful of the soldiers of both sides, am awed by the sheer amount of bloodshed and enjoy reading up on the history of the war. I had a distant relative that died at Lookout Mountain (fighting for the north). However, I find it laughable that some people are still emotional over this subject. It's over. It's been over long before you or your parents or your grandparents were born. If you get this heated over the subject, are you still p*ssed off at the Brits for a couple of other wars? Gotta move on at some point people....

As for that post about the "Yankees" (I didn't think anyone used that word anymore, except to discuss a much-disliked baseball team), if you substituted that word with the name of a much-persecuted religion, it would come pretty darned close to some of the radical fringe rants you occasionally come across on the net.

The Yankee is the source of all evil. He owns the banks, he steals our land, he is not like us good citizens, etc, etc.

Truly weird (and slightly disturbing) stuff.....

Yes, that comparison has been made in the past, actually. I've concluded that a large quantity of prejudice or hatred is simply narcotic, and not a rational exercise. It provides people with a high, they rationalize their use of it, is addictive, and eventually destroyed those addicted to it.

The amusing thing is that people harbor these grudges as if the politics are the same, then as now. Our political "right" and "left" have no easy analogies to people in 1917, much less 1857. And why should they be? They lived in a different world than we do. It's amusing to me to see us struggle with legacies of the past, as when we argue over who should pay for interstate highways. When they built those highways the first time around, they made assumptions about who we would be that have not held true. We have many more cars, but much less patience with taxes, it turns out.

Edited April 13, 2011 by Fishwelding

[Big Texan]

LOL...

Am I the only guy in this thread that just doesn't care? Don't get me wrong, I'm respectful of the soldiers of both sides, am awed by the sheer amount of bloodshed and enjoy reading up on the history of the war. I had a distant relative that died at Lookout Mountain (fighting for the north). However, I find it laughable that some people are still emotional over this subject. It's over. It's been over long before you or your parents or your grandparents were born. If you get this heated over the subject, are you still p*ssed off at the Brits for a couple of other wars? Gotta move on at some point people....

As for that post about the "Yankees" (I didn't think anyone used that word anymore, except to discuss a much-disliked baseball team), if you substituted that word with the name of a much-persecuted religion, it would come pretty darned close to some of the radical fringe rants you occasionally come across on the net.

The Yankee is the source of all evil. He owns the banks, he steals our land, he is not like us good citizens, etc, etc.

Truly weird (and slightly disturbing) stuff.....

Not defending this mind you, but "Yankee" is still a bad word in the south. Denotes things like "carpet baggers", thieves and liars. Takers of liberty and freedom. Violaters of the constitution. Like I said, not defending this, just trying to explain why Southerners look at things the way they do. Slavery wasn't the issue for the South. It was "Northerners" telling them what to do. It was "Northern" aggression and invasion. It was more about "States Rights" than anything else. For sure, there were those who wanted to keep slavery, but they were in the minority. The average confederate soldier was a poor farmer. He was fighting for his home and family against invaders. He was fighting, in his mind, for freedom over a powerful tyrannical govt. These are the things that you'll find in the average confederate soldiers letters and journals. Being from the North and never growing up with this, it would be hard for you to understand.

For the Northern side of things, they fought to perserve the Union, and of course, to end slavery. Looked at Southerners as traitors.

Like I said, today is more difficult than back then! Today there are so many divisive factions around the country it isn't funny. Hyphenated Americans instead of unified Americans. Its sad to see to say the least. Like I said, have we really learned the lessons from our past? Was the sacrifices of all of our military in vain? I certainly hope not. Like Old Blind Dog said, it would be nice to move on.

The thing is, they both fought for what they thought was right during the time. A terrible war for sure.

[11bee]

Like I said, today is more difficult than back then! Today there are so many divisive factions around the country it isn't funny. Hyphenated Americans instead of unified Americans. Its sad to see to say the least. Like I said, have we really learned the lessons from our past? Was the sacrifices of all of our military in vain? I certainly hope not. Like Old Blind Dog said, it would be nice to move on.

The thing is, they both fought for what they thought was right during the time. A terrible war for sure.

Well spoken. I agree 100%.

[Skyraider Maniac]

LOL...

Am I the only guy in this thread that just doesn't care? Don't get me wrong, I'm respectful of the soldiers of both sides, am awed by the sheer amount of bloodshed and enjoy reading up on the history of the war. I had a distant relative that died at Lookout Mountain (fighting for the north). However, I find it laughable that some people are still emotional over this subject. It's over. It's been over long before you or your parents or your grandparents were born. If you get this heated over the subject, are you still p*ssed off at the Brits for a couple of other wars? Gotta move on at some point people....

As for that post about the "Yankees" (I didn't think anyone used that word anymore, except to discuss a much-disliked baseball team), if you substituted that word with the name of a much-persecuted religion, it would come pretty darned close to some of the radical fringe rants you occasionally come across on the net.

The Yankee is the source of all evil. He owns the banks, he steals our land, he is not like us good citizens, etc, etc.

Truly weird (and slightly disturbing) stuff.....

You really don't get it? Wow, I thought that plain English was good enough for some folks? Did I say anything about them owning the banks? Did I say they steal the land? What I said above is plain enough, the gripe is encroachment and disrespect to southern society.

To you it may be weird, but disturbing? Please.

At least present a real point of view instead of merely playing it off as "radical fringe". Your comments are no different from any other typical yank - but wait - if the treatment of the southerner had changed for the better, would there still be resentment? Its possible, but not to the extent that there is now. Its a good idea to figure out why folks are still disgruntled before passing it off as mere foolishness.

[Fishwelding]

At least present a real point of view instead of merely playing it off as "radical fringe". Your comments are no different from any other typical yank - but wait - if the treatment of the southerner had changed for the better, would there still be resentment? Its possible, but not to the extent that there is now. Its a good idea to figure out why folks are still disgruntled before passing it off as mere foolishness.

Your resentment is not unique, though. I live in the rust belt, a big portion of Yankeedom. It's full of people--still alive, baby boomers--who, along with their immigrant ancestors, built the industrial America whose wealth we all still live off of. They smelted, poured, rolled, forged, and shipped the steel surrounding us. They fabricated, wired, and rigged the early generations of electricity, telephony, and other systems. All that pipe that built the Southern oil industry? Shipped from Pittsburgh, Ohio, Gary, Illinois, and other "Yankee places," with a relatively small exception from Birmingham. To quote Richard Nixon, in a very rare moment of eloquence, these are the people who "gave steel to the backbone of America." And they were both hyphenated Americans, and loyal Americans, despite a legacy of brutal treatment prior to the 1930s. Their Slovak, Lithuanian, Ukrainian, Greek, and other heritage churches still punctuate the skyline.

And it's all gone. Now the old mill sites are shopping malls, or just brown, weedy wastelands. The jobs went, too. The business was deemed "unprofitable," and the Unions were conveniently, if somewhat less plausibly given all the blame. Now, the U.S. defense establishment increasingly faces problems getting basic stuff from domestic manufacturers, but evidently nobody considered this when these industries were allowed to crumble, without a coherent industrial policy other than cheap political sloganeering.

My point isn't that Rustbeltia has an even sobbier story than the South. Not at all. It's that everybody has it rough in a changing economy without substantial industrial planning. Take a number and get in line, brother.