Why no more new tool 1/32 jets from Hasegawa?

[foxmulder_ms]

I quite agree. The Gundam market is HUGE not only in Japan but also Asia in general. Particularly in Taiwan, Hong Kong, Malaysia & Singapore. It's because of the Anime influence. You might think it silly that grown men would even watch these. But I can tell you that the stories can be VERY addictive. And the action sequences can be spectacular. I don't follow Gundam myself but the few episodes I've seen have impressed me. It's not just the robots but the human element of the story. In fact, in most of these Japanese techno anime, the machines are secondary characters. For a truly mind-blowing experience in robotics, murder, mystery, philosophy and fantastic graphics, I recommend you watch the "Ghost In The Shell" movies (not the series). I had to watch each one at least twice before I could understand the deep & profound philosophies of the story. The writers really know how to play with your mind...

I agree first movie is the best but series are awesome too for the ones who can watch all the episodes. Their story is as "deep" as the movie. :D However, it is not a mecha anime which provides subjects for Bandai :)

So, we were talking modeling market...

I will be bold and say some of you guys cannot see the global picture. It is probably true that modeling folks are getting older and their population is getting smaller in USA and Europe but in Asia it is definitely growing. All my Chinese friends find the hobby, surprisingly, "cool" whereas American ones generally find it "geeky" (I don't have gray hair yet :) so talking about young people here). So, I dare to say if it goes like this, biggest company will be Trumpeter/Hobbyboss simply because they have a growing market. Their product line is becoming larger every day and quality/accuracy of latest models are not bad at all.

[Grenadier37]

I scanned this thread, so my apologies if I'm saying what others have said. Which is simply that other companies are producing kits of similar or better quality and detail (e.g. Revell AG, Airfix and Wing Nut Wings) for less money than those marketed by the Japanese and Chinese manufacturers.

Why do the Japanese and Chinese charge so much for their kits and why are so many of us willing to pay over inflated prices? So for example, if Revell AG produced a Phantom of similar quality to the Tamiya Phantoms at half the price, would you buy it? So then why buy the Trumpeter Typhoon for $130.00 when the Revell Typhoon costs $45.00?

I think the answer is to stop buying overpriced kits.

[richter111]

Hasegawa produced ship kits for one major reason. Ships sell at a slow and steady pace. The builders usually are willing to scratch build any variants/upgrades and whatever.

FWIW when Trumpeter released the USS Hornet in 1/350, they badly missed the hull shape, in effect they built a flat bottom hull, reminiscent of the hulls off the old Revell 1950's USS Missouri.

[-Neu-]

I hate to say this (I'm donning my asbestos suit), but what modelers on discussion boards are "sure" will be a "great seller" is quite often 180 degrees from reality. There are *numerous* examples. Probably the best is the 1/48 PBY. It sat at the top of FSM and other "most wanted" lists in 1/48 scale for YEARS. People begged and pleaded for somebody to do a 1/48 Catalina. So Monogram took the hint and did a 1/48 PBY series. According to the Monogram rep I spoke to several years later, it was the single worst selling 1/48 kit they ever did. Modelers begged and pleaded for years for a 1/48 Sea King. When I visited Hasegawa in 1997, they told me their 1/48 Sea King was their single worst selling kit ever, period. That's why it took almost 15 years for any further tooling (which had already been engineered - I saw the drawings in 1997) to be invested in so they could release a British version. There are lots of other examples.

It's great for us to dream and ponder. But we're not in the model kit business, and the ins and outs of the business, especially among the Japanese companies, are *very* closely held information. What you or I think about Hasegawa's business, its prospects, and its decision making processes probably has zero to do with the reality of the situation in Shizuoka. I don't think Hasegawa is on the brink of disaster just because they haven't done the kit you or I want them to do. There's way more to the formula than that...

Just my observation.

J

Great post, one that bears dissection. Most people don't realize that Hasegawa's main priority is the Japanese market. When those decisions are viewed from a western perspective on the western market, they look strange.

For example, I suspect the Akagi and the Nagato sold well in Japan, 1/350 has seen a major revival in the past couple years. They were basically #2 and #3 in popularity in Japan (Behind the Yamato), and there weren't any kits in that scale readily available.

The other big misconception is the reality of Hasegawa's pricing, and the effects of duties and importation fees. Most people don't realize that Hasegawa's kits pricing are actually fairly reasonable before importers raise the price to obscene levels.

Edited July 19, 2011 by -Neu-

[Rob Colvin]

1/32 Starfighter....Blow the 48th kit up....

[Dave Williams]

Without the rivets, though.

[tony.t]

1/32 Starfighter....Blow the 48th kit up....

A TF-104G would be really nice, and they could mould it in Hello Kitty pink or Tranformer metallic-turquoise for all I care to sell more on the domestic market - it'll get sprayed in shades of metal in any event and would receive a big welcome on my workbench.

[Shawn C.]

Without the rivets, though.

Without the ejector pin marks, too! <_< Wouldn't that be a good seller for them? One would think so.

[RiderFan]

1/32 Starfighter....Blow the 48th kit up....

Considering the number of 104's that served with the JASDF, you'd think that would be a no brainer. But they seem to have decided to just milk their existing molds which are pretty sad. It's not enough that the panel lines are raised but the molds are so worn that the lines are almost invisible now. And maybe adding some actual main gear bay details would be a good step forward too. Save for the cockpit, the Revell 1:32 104 (now long OOP) is much much better.

[Dave Williams]

Having one of the Revell 104s in addition to the Hasegawa 104s, I don't see the improvement, other than the underwing pylons. The Revell gear and bays aren't any great shakes either.

[meindert]

Dave,

I agree that Hasegawa is not well suited to kit the 1/32 f-4b because it's too big and complex (hence risky), although I do believe that there's a pent up market demand for it. Trumpeter would be the logical choice, albeit not entirely desirable, of manufacturer to tackle it in 32nd scale.

Considering their local market priority, I think a Mitsubishi F-2A/B would make a perfect choice for entering 32nd jet market again after many years of absence. Think about it, it's a JASDF jet, it's small, it has tons of special schemes for re-popping, and they have already done the research for the smaller 1/72 1/48 versions. Yes it'd still be a leap of faith, but I think it's a much safer one than say oh I don't know, a 1/32 MiG-25/31. :)

Terry

Please no! I already made a 1/32 F-2 myself. Look at.... http://designer.home.xs4all.nl/models/F2-32/f2-32.htm

Other 1/32 Hasegawa kits more than welcome

Meindert

[RiderFan]

Having one of the Revell 104s in addition to the Hasegawa 104s, I don't see the improvement, other than the underwing pylons. The Revell gear and bays aren't any great shakes either.

The revell kit has recessed panel lines. The wings are the correct cord. There's at least ~some~ detail in the gear bay that is sort of correct. The hasagawa bay is empty. Just flat bits of plastic with no detail of any kind. Hasagawa has a nicer cockpit (although still not accurate), and it has better main gear detail. Other than that, the kit's a plastic shell with no detailing at all...and they want $80 for it.

[Dave Williams]

You must have a different Revell 1/32 F-104 than I do. Mine has raised panel lines like the Hasegawa kit.

[Inquisitor]

It will be interesting to see what they are doing when all of us are gone and in the grave, with their customer base gone. Oh, we will be dead and won't be able to see what they are up too, never mind!

Switch or diversify to another market base? Many japanese companies had already caught up with the times. Kids don't want the tediousness of assembling and painting a scale model. That's why you see all those snap fit or action figures of your favorite movie, videogame or anime subject for their quick fix. Around 15 years ago most of the figures of anime/movie/comic characters were resin kits that needed a lot of work. Today the market is flooded with PVC, coldcast or prepainted figures that you only need to take out from the box.

On the subject of a shrinking number of modelers, like some people mentioned that might be the case in the western world. But in Japan Bandai keeps nurturing new generations of kids hungry for more plastic robots which might later begin to sink their teeth in other subjects. Gundam might not be the cup of tea for most readers in this forum, but they are big in Japan. Bandai makes different line of kits to cater to different demographics from little kids with kits that don't need tools or paint, that cost mere 500 yens, peanuts for the japanese income to the big 1/60 Perfect Grade gundams which cost $100+. On this side of the world we keep hearing LHS closing here and there, but if you ever go to Japan try to visit a scale model shop or even one specialized in Gunpla (gundam kits only) and you'll see a different picture.

Returning back to Hasegawa, yeah some people might not be considering that they cater to their domestic market first of all with things like their recent 1/350 IJN kits. They also diversified into Sci-Fi with their Maschinen Krieger line, Virtual-On Robots based on the Sega game both of which they pump new kits pretty frequently and seem to be doing pretty well, as well as Macross kits once in a while. To me they seem to be pretty busy to pay any attention into the risky market of 1/32 jets.

Edited July 20, 2011 by Inquisitor

[RiderFan]

You must have a different Revell 1/32 F-104 than I do. Mine has raised panel lines like the Hasegawa kit.

Mine has recessed panel lines (plus the odd raised one here and there), two different tail configurations, and an optional refueling probe.

http://www.largescaleplanes.com/reviews/Kits/Jets/Revell/f104g/f104g.php

[Dave Williams]

Mine has recessed panel lines (plus the odd raised one here and there), two different tail configurations, and an optional refueling probe.

http://www.largescaleplanes.com/reviews/Kits/Jets/Revell/f104g/f104g.php

I have a US Revell release molded in green, but all of the Revell 104s are the same plastic, AFAIK. The only difference is the color of the plastic and the decals.

I had a look at mine, and it's a mixture of raised and recessed panel lines like the Hasegawa F-16. On the fuselage, some of the rectangular panels above the wings and the right side avionics bays are recessed, but most of the other panel lines, with surrounding rivets are raised, as is all of the detail on the T-tail, and the wing details, except for the LE and TE flaps. It's certainly not a recessed panel line kit like the 1/48 Hasegawa kit, but I agree it has more recessed panel lines than the 1/32 Hasegawa, which has none (except the control surfaces).

[nird551]

slightly off topic but...

i was talking to some asian distributors of trumpeter lately. they pointed out some things in relation to trump's inner workings and why they produce kits with major flaws.

1. Trump has a mother company in china the manufactures plastic parts for appliances, cars, etc. Trumpeter was essentially a side venture. the appointed head of trumpeter was given a huge amount money and was told to go into it without too much oversight from the mother company. as with other new companies with a large infusion of cash, Trump went crazy and manufactured all sorts of kits. from hugely popular subjects to subjects that don't have any potential.

But recently, they have been called to account for all the money they spent. this is not really a problem for them since they do make money BUT this has caused them to substantially slow down their release of new kits. if you guys notice, they have been releasing fewer and fewer kits.

2. as to quality control, i was told it all boils down to one or two guys(let's call them QC) who has the trust of the head honcho. QC have several guys under them who tell them the mistakes they make in their kits. these guys are the same one's who once in a while visit our forums. so they know all about our beefs here and acknowledge that they screw up a lot of simple things. the problem is that our complaints don't reach the head honcho, for one reason or another (a lot of it is that head honcho cannot read english). anyway, so i asked what can be done?

one of the distributors told me to keep writing to trumpeter and ask me to ask other people to keep on writing to trumpeter. the more detailed the complaint is, the better. this is so that the little guys in trumpeter can have enough evidence to present to the bosses.

sorry to be off topic :)

[Jeff]

slightly off topic but...

i was talking to some asian distributors of trumpeter lately. they pointed out some things in relation to trump's inner workings and why they produce kits with major flaws.

1. Trump has a mother company in china the manufactures plastic parts for appliances, cars, etc. Trumpeter was essentially a side venture. the appointed head of trumpeter was given a huge amount money and was told to go into it without too much oversight from the mother company. as with other new companies with a large infusion of cash, Trump went crazy and manufactured all sorts of kits. from hugely popular subjects to subjects that don't have any potential.

But recently, they have been called to account for all the money they spent. this is not really a problem for them since they do make money BUT this has caused them to substantially slow down their release of new kits. if you guys notice, they have been releasing fewer and fewer kits.

2. as to quality control, i was told it all boils down to one or two guys(let's call them QC) who has the trust of the head honcho. QC have several guys under them who tell them the mistakes they make in their kits. these guys are the same one's who once in a while visit our forums. so they know all about our beefs here and acknowledge that they screw up a lot of simple things. the problem is that our complaints don't reach the head honcho, for one reason or another (a lot of it is that head honcho cannot read english). anyway, so i asked what can be done?

one of the distributors told me to keep writing to trumpeter and ask me to ask other people to keep on writing to trumpeter. the more detailed the complaint is, the better. this is so that the little guys in trumpeter can have enough evidence to present to the bosses.

sorry to be off topic :)

Maybe the Chinese government is the one who wants the account for all the money that is spent from $600B stimulus program 2 years ago. You know the M2 money supply in China is spiraling out of control even though they have raised interest rates and reserve requirement ratio in Banks for several times since end of last year. Not all the money that is lent are used "constructively". And talking about "Red Flag's" raised by Moody on Chinese companies and Banks suspecting their actual NPN is way over 10% then the report 2.5%... whenever there is smoke, there is fire.

Edited July 23, 2011 by Jeff