Alleycat Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 I am building a 1/72 Hasegawa F-4J and want empty outer wing pylons. After cutting off the kit wing tanks from the pylons, gluing them together and sanding them down to perfection I noticed in every photo I looked at that Phantoms from SEA always seem to have an adapter on the empty pylons. Alot of wasted work! Then I found these from Hypersonic Models: http://www.hypersonicmodels.co.uk/product/f-4-phantom-outer-pylons-navy-72 Are there any other choices for replacement 1/72 F-4 outer wing pylons with the adapter? Are these available from anyone in the US? (When I try to purchase them I get this "THE CHECKOUT IS CURRENTLY CLOSED. We will be open again from Wednesday, 03/06/2015. Thank you for your patience.") Thanks Quote Link to post Share on other sites
f4h1phantom Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 I have a Fujimi F-4E and it has them (incorrectly!) included. Probably most Fujimi Phantoms have them too, although they are not as good as those from Hypersonic. HTH, Jorge. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Andre Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 Probably most Fujimi Phantoms have them too, although they are not as good as those from Hypersonic. All 1/72nd Fujimi J79-Phantoms have them included. Their RAF Spey kits do not feature them. Cheers, Andre Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Spectre711 Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 Those look real nice! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Paul Boyer Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 I seem to remember that the outboard tanks had their own pylons and that a different pylon was installed when carrying ordnance on the outboard station. Somebody out there must know for sure. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
airmechaja Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 I seem to remember that the outboard tanks had their own pylons and that a different pylon was installed when carrying ordnance on the outboard station. Somebody out there must know for sure. I can only talk about USAF tanks through experience. The pylons were integral with the tanks. If the tanks were jettisoned or removed, the pylons went with them. I would assume the USN J's were the same but I'm not sure. Dean Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rex Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 Paul, the outboard pylons came in a "plain state", with a convex curve long the bottom. Then the crew bolted on either the MER Adapter, or the McDonnell wing tank. The pylon could be switched between tanks, adapters, or bare. The McDonnell tanks could be bolted up to the pylons in the shop and handled assembled,,,and ,,,a jet could be switched over from tanks to weapons on the same pylon whenever the mission required it. The "always integral" wing tank deal was only because once assembled in the shop with Fletcher tanks on them, the pylons were then left bolted on and the tanks were handled in an assembled state. Then the USAF had a completely different weapons pylon out there on the outer wing,,,,,,,so, they never had a reason to disassemble a tank back off from a pylon. In the USN and USMC, you will see photos as late as the F-4J and F-4S eras of the outer pylon with neither adapter or tank,,,,,nice color shots of that are in the Double Ugly book on USN Phantoms. The top of Page 75 shows a wing tank pylon without a tank or adapter, with a really clear shot of the shape on Page 15, in the middle photo,,,and the top of Page 57 shows a wing tank pylon with McDonnell tank on an F-4J,,,in 1973. (in the early days of USAF Phantom usage, they had the same tanks and pylons as the USN, so their wing tanks were used on the "Wing Tank pylon with weapons adapter" {that's the USAF wording in their weapons chart in their version of the Dash-One}) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Gene K Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 After cutting off the kit wing tanks from the pylons, gluing them together and sanding them down to perfection I noticed in every photo I looked at that Phantoms from SEA always seem to have an adapter on the empty pylons. Alot of wasted work! Not wasted: add at least a couple mm of plastic to the bottom of the pylon, and then add the adapter as shown here. As concerns Phantom pylons and what was carried on them, that's a recurring theme on ARC, so here are just a few links - you can go here for starters. The ARC search engine is very good. Gene K Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Alleycat Posted May 25, 2015 Author Share Posted May 25, 2015 (edited) Thanks for all the informative replies. I love this forum, I never visit without learning something. I am doing "Showtime 100" from VF-96 on that fateful day. Please no insults, these are the decals I could find (Yellowhammer Models 72002), I have always liked the scheme, it is an historic aircraft and I'm doing it... even if Duke did end up being a crooked jerk. So I know I need 4 (flat-two)or 6 (fully loaded TERs) Mk.20 rockeyes on the inner pylons - opinions differ but I kind of like the look of the flat-two option. I have about 50 rockeyes from various sources. I have plenty of AIM-9D sidewinders (to represent AIM-9G), also for the inner pylons. I have plenty of AIM-7E Sparrows (to represent AIM-7E-2) - only need 2. I will use the kit center line tank. I also need empty outer pylons with adapters - again opinions differ for this. I will try to buy the Hypersonic Models product. I have over 50 books on the various Phantoms and like I said I could find no photos of empty outer pylons without adapters. I am not familiar with "the Double Ugly book on USN Phantoms" but will look into it. But since several sources say that VF-96 rarely if ever used wing tanks on the '72 cruise, and several photos show the squadron aircraft with empty outer pylons/adapters the evening before (May 9 I believe?), I plan to install the empty pylons. To Gene K - My fingers are sore from holding onto these tiny pylons while I sanded them for about four hours. There is no way I am going to try to "add at least a couple mm of plastic to the bottom of the pylon, and then add the adapter" which I do not have. I appreciate the suggestion but I don't feel up to it. The Hypersonic Models pylons/adapters are listed for £3.00 with £3.50 shipping. That's $10.17 US Dollars as of today. I already have Eduard PE interior, Quickboost seats, Wolfpack Design flaps/slats-(VERY nice) and the decals invested in this kit, and since I have more money than time $10 seems like a deal to me. BTW, am I missing any useful AM? Edited May 25, 2015 by Alleycat Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Finn Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 Here is Showtime 100 taken Feb 72, a few months before the time period you plan to go with, note the weathering: Jari Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Stefan buysse Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 Hello, Alleycat. Neat project. I have built a pretty bad "Showtime 100" in the past and hope to build a much better one in the future. Don't worry about the Hypersonic shop being closed for the moment. Jeffrey is just on on a trip for the moment. I will buy some of his A-6 sets when he gets back. Every Hypersonic product I ever bought was fabulous. If you like Phantoms, look at some of his other F-4 products. I see that you have 50 Rockeyes, but I must recommend getting the new ones form Eduard. They exist in 1/72 and 1/48. In either scale, they have the best Rockeye "bare" fuse that I have ever seen done. They also come with a complete set of decals. You can use the "bare" fuse and use the Eduard fuse covers the improve your other Rockeyes. When I get around to building my better "Showtime 100", I'll also go with the "flat-two" option. Cheers, Stefan. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rex Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 (edited) There's probably no pictures up on the internet, but, it was a real thing. In addition to the two photos from the "US Navy Phantoms" book (photo credit to the contributors to that book), you can see what the pylons looked like in one of the links Gene gave, it shows a pylon with the tank bolt directions. I've always wanted to know what people think the reason is that those show up bare like that? If the tanks don't come off, and the weapons adapter can unbolt, and they really don't do anything without one or the other attached (which they really don't),,,,,why are there photos of bare pylons on both wings at the same time on an aircraft. The only possible explanation is that they are in transition from McDonnell or Royal Jet tanks to Weapons Adapters or vice versa. (the people that only ever handled Sgt Fletcher tanks wouldn't know the answer, they always swapped pylons) Edited May 25, 2015 by Rex Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Andre Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 (edited) I am not familiar with "the Double Ugly book on USN Phantoms" but will look into it. Reviews here, here and here. Cheers, Andre Edited May 25, 2015 by Andre Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tailspin Turtle Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 Navy F-4 external tanks stuff: http://tailspintopics.blogspot.com/2013/06/things-under-wings-f4h-f-4-phantom.html Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Alleycat Posted June 16, 2015 Author Share Posted June 16, 2015 I received the Hypersonic Models 1/72 F-4 outer wing pylons and these things are exquisite. Great detail and probably the easiest casting block I ever removed. The kit parts touch at the front and back but have a gap along the center of the pylon-wing joint. These resin pylons fit tightly all along the length. I will leave them empty but you could attach a TER or MER to them and hang any appropriate ordnance that you like. A great product. I should have ordered more than one set. Highly recommended. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Thadeus Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 Nice info! Sorry for the lame question, but were those outboard pylons ever canted outwards? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rex Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 Not the USN type. That is the type that Jeffrey makes, with the MER adapter on them. The USAF type, which is a completely different design, did cant outwards. With the USN type, you mounted the MER at a cant to the outside on that MER adapter. (I don't remember if the TER had to cant or not) You can see the cant of the MER or MBR on USN/USMC aircraft, it is what causes the inboard top bombs to appear to be lower than the outboard top bombs. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mrvark Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 USN MER/TERs were canted 13.5 deg outboard from the vertical pylon USAF pylons were canted 7.5 deg outboard Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rex Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 Thank you Jim. I can never remember the degrees for each, and I keep having to look for the one MBR drawing that I have with that outboard cant spelled out on it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Thadeus Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 Sweet! Thanks a lot gentlemen! It will come in handy for the upcoming Vietnam War GB :) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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