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Big Changes for the Marines


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Anyone see the proposed changes to restructure the Marines from primarily a conventional role (basically an amphibious US Army with internal air support) to a sea / area denial force primarily aimed at the Pacific region?

 

No more tanks, most heavy artillery gone, cuts to infantry, helos and F-35's.  Big focus on long range precision missiles and anti-ship weapons.   

 

Maybe instead of Devil Dogs, we'll have to call them "Rocket Men"?

 

 https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/32703/marines-to-radically-remodel-force-cutting-tanks-howitzers-in-favor-of-drones-missiles

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, 11bee said:

Anyone see the proposed changes to restructure the Marines from primarily a conventional role (basically an amphibious US Army with internal air support) to a sea / area denial force primarily aimed at the Pacific region?

 

No more tanks, most heavy artillery gone, cuts to infantry, helos and F-35's.  Big focus on long range precision missiles and anti-ship weapons.   

 

Maybe instead of Devil Dogs, we'll have to call them "Rocket Men"?

 

 https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/32703/marines-to-radically-remodel-force-cutting-tanks-howitzers-in-favor-of-drones-missiles

 

 

 

 

One word for this: China 

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53 minutes ago, 11bee said:

Anyone see the proposed changes to restructure the Marines from primarily a conventional role (basically an amphibious US Army with internal air support) to a sea / area denial force primarily aimed at the Pacific region?

 

No more tanks, most heavy artillery gone, cuts to infantry, helos and F-35's.  Big focus on long range precision missiles and anti-ship weapons.   

 

Maybe instead of Devil Dogs, we'll have to call them "Rocket Men"?

 

 https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/32703/marines-to-radically-remodel-force-cutting-tanks-howitzers-in-favor-of-drones-missiles

 

 

 

 

 

The CMC has confused a theater strategy for a service wide force structure. 

 

The USMC has prided itself on being "America's 911 force" and force in readiness jack of all trades from full on invasions to disaster relief and everything in between. This basically makes the USMC a 1 dimensional cold war force, with the binary logic that if it's not good for China, its not worth having. So all those other inconcenvient wars we have to "bother with" with the last 70s Years, from the Koreas to the Afghanistans are just going to have dial 911 for someone else. Which basically makes the USMC useless for anything other than hanging out in the Pacific waiting for a war that will likely never come, and if it ever did the USMC would massively expand anyway (the USMC in 1941 was 54,000 Marines and ended at nearly 500,000.) And whatever plan or force structure will go out the window overnight. 

 

That's about all for now. The internet is alight with everyone pointing out this is beyond x many of this and y many of that. The Marines have just shifted away from over 100 years of its core concept

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I look at like this. All the new equipment that they have procured over the last 10 years that is still very well serviceable should be given to the Army and it will hopefully boost maintenance levels for Armor, Arty, etc. units that it goes to. Let the Marines do what they want if they think it's best for them. I've always believed that they were used way to much with conflicts that are landlocked instead of their sea based origins.

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Heck I had no idea that sea planes were still being used for military service! Brilliant!

ShinMaywa US-2 Amphibian operated by the Japanese Maritime Self ...

 I may have to break out my ancient Hasegawa 1/72 PS-1 now. 

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25 minutes ago, Don said:

Heck I had no idea that sea planes were still being used for military service! Brilliant!

ShinMaywa US-2 Amphibian operated by the Japanese Maritime Self ...

 

 

Oh I hope the Marines choose the ShinMaywa US-2.  That might convince Hasegawa to come out with a 1/72 one to complement their ancient PS-1.  I've always wished the US would have leashed a couple of US-2s for their SAR ops in Japan.

 

 

 

 

Edited by JackMan
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So the Marines demands for STOVL for the JSF program makes for major design compromises and additional costs on the F-35 as a whole and now due to a restructuring of the Corps, they don't want it any longer? :doh:

 

-Gregg

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1 hour ago, GreyGhost said:

So the Marines demands for STOVL

 

 

not just the Marines, no. 

 

 

1 hour ago, GreyGhost said:

 

 

for the JSF program makes for major design compromises and additional costs on the F-35 as a whole and now due to a restructuring of the Corps, they don't want it any longer? :doh:

 

-Gregg

 

is this supposed to be serious?

 

 

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just a small correction to the above:

Its commonly said in the U.S. Military that the 101st Airborne is the President's private police force. There will come a time in the near future that the only parachute groups will be S.F. with each Brigade have one parachute Regiment. Mechanized Infantry will become the next big player, and armor will loose out to a certain extent. The age of over priced and not really needed aircraft carriers is going to show it's ugly face sooner than later. Submarines have became the Navy's true deadly weapon.

      A comment was made about heavy artillery. There is none is the U.S. inventory with the phase out of the 8" SPG. A 155 mm is considered medium arty. I sorta saw the armor issue coming awhile back, as they only build enough power packs to keep the tooling working. There is a new power pack for the M1, but it's setting on the shelf waiting for something to put it in. I think it's right around the corner. I know that TACOM is begging for two new SPG's, and are not fond of what they have in house. They want to do away with gun powder altogether.

gary

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If all this happens, wonder if the army will flag a few armor and arty units to support the Marines?    
 

I get that the Pacific region has some unique needs and China is now our new bogeyman but many studies have also forecasted fighting in “mega cities” and in those, armor is absolutely critical to support the grunts.  To completely disband the Marines armor force seems foolhardy.  

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On the post above, all the time I was in, I never heard anyone refer to the 101st as the prezzy’s private police force.   They are good guys but they are a light infantry unit, nothing more, nothing less.  
 

Maybe you mean the 82nd?  

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11 minutes ago, 11bee said:

If all this happens, wonder if the army will flag a few armor and arty units to support the Marines?    
 

I get that the Pacific region has some unique needs and China is now our new bogeyman but many studies have also forecasted fighting in “mega cities” and in those, armor is absolutely critical to support the grunts.  To completely disband the Marines armor force seems foolhardy.  

always have in the past. All heavy marine arty in Vietnam was really Army. The removal of tanks in the Marine Corps still baffles me, so who knows what.

glt

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9 minutes ago, 11bee said:

On the post above, all the time I was in, I never heard anyone refer to the 101st as the prezzy’s private police force.   They are good guys but they are a light infantry unit, nothing more, nothing less.  
 

Maybe you mean the 82nd?  

NOPE! 

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18 minutes ago, 11bee said:

If all this happens, wonder if the army will flag a few armor and arty units to support the Marines?    

 

Surely theyll have plenty to spare as they slug it out with the Chinese themselves

 

 

18 minutes ago, 11bee said:

 

I get that the Pacific region has some unique needs and China is now our new bogeyman but many studies have also forecasted fighting in “mega cities” and in those, armor is absolutely critical to support the grunts.  To completely disband the Marines armor force seems foolhardy.  

 

 

Did you watch this too??

 

Yeah it's pretty crazy that even in dirt-i-stan the deuce and a halves and Humvees need armor, cant leave the fob without it, but surely that's a crazy outdated concept? 

 

It's a gambit and it's a big one and I think it's actually so far afield that the next CMC will be "recentering" a lot. The hemorrhaging of people and gear in exchange for UAV and other not yet invented vaporware is spellbinding. 

 

Lastly the symposiums and briefings about China have not exactly been generous in US capabilities if anything a wider range of capabilities are required not betting the farm on the idea of high tech supporting fires will save the day.

 

 

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13 minutes ago, TaiidanTomcat said:

 

 

Did you watch this too??   Yes

Yes, and from a dumb grunt’s standpoint, fighting in a place like this would be terrifying.  It would be an absolute slaughterhouse but as long as those Marines have hypersonic cruise missiles, I guess it would work out ok.   

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9 minutes ago, 11bee said:

Yes, and from a dumb grunt’s standpoint, fighting in a place like this would be terrifying.  It would be an absolute slaughterhouse but as long as those Marines have hypersonic cruise missiles, I guess it would work out ok.   

 

Marines have been a tradition "middle" capable of fighting in big wars along with the big boys while also laying claims to being "small war" specialists. Which works because "big army" doesnt like those much traditionally, And we've had far more "small wars" than super power struggles the last 70 years. 

 

No shortage of light units get viciously exposed by relative light armor or even trucks with HMGs mounted. 

 

Not meant as a criticism to the other services but the CMC has seemingly succumbed to the "but your little real war interferes with my grand hypothetical war plans!!" Concept Marines have traditionally avoided. Functional not theoretical

 

In 2011 for example the USMC was involved from Libya to Japan (with lots in between) and it took a lot of shuffling to keep it all going. theres a point where not even a spitfire can be in two places at once. 

 

Remember that Marines are the odd ones out. We only exist because we're useful, and we cant lose battles. 

 

https://www.csis.org/analysis/marine-corps-radical-shift-toward-china

 

Littoral Combat Ship- the service!

 

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2 hours ago, 11bee said:

On the post above, all the time I was in, I never heard anyone refer to the 101st as the prezzy’s private police force.   They are good guys but they are a light infantry unit, nothing more, nothing less.  
 

Maybe you mean the 82nd?  

 

13 years in with plenty of friends that had a screaming chicken on their right shoulder and never heard of that term either.

 

I always thought of them as fools for the longest time because from my observations they bit off more than they could chew, at least the commanders would. Kinda like the Marines. Had a friend that was with the 101 unit depicted in the movie "The Hornet's Nest." More or less reinforced my opinion of them.

Edited by Whiskey
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1 minute ago, Whiskey said:

 

13 years in with plenty of friends that had a screaming chicken on their right shoulder and never heard of that term either.

 

I always thought of them as fools for the longest time because from my observations they bit off more than they could chew, at least the commanders would. Kinda like the Marines. Had a friend that was with the 101 unit depicted in the movie "The Hornet's Nest." 

I saw a movie ages ago (Hambuger Hill?) where someone referred to the 101st as the “Army’s Marines”.   Not sure that was meant as a compliment.  

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There is nothing more comical than a bunch of people that never served in the Marine Corps questioning or commenting on the decisions of the current CMC, or insinuating they know what is best. Just stick to building plastic models and leave the policy making decisions to real Marines.

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10 minutes ago, Dave Roof said:

There is nothing more comical than a bunch of people that never served in the Marine Corps questioning or commenting on the decisions of the current CMC, or insinuating they know what is best. Just stick to building plastic models and leave the policy making decisions to real Marines.

LOL...  Shut it down boys, nothing to talk about here.  Don't think anyone above was ever in the Core anyway.   

 

On a related note Dave, if you go online, you will find plenty of "Real Marines" who have serious misgivings with this guy's plan. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, 11bee said:

LOL...  Shut it down boys, nothing to talk about here.  Don't think anyone above was ever in the Core anyway.   

 

Corps.  CORPS. CORPS !!!!!!!!!

 

Sorry to be pedantic but Marines are not apples....

 

.

Edited by habu2
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Posted (edited)
32 minutes ago, habu2 said:

 

Corps.  CORPS. CORPS !!!!!!!!!

 

Sorry to be pedantic but Marines are not apples....

 

.

It was intentional!!!  Just messing with my Marine brothers. 

Edited by 11bee
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1 hour ago, 11bee said:

LOL...  Shut it down boys, nothing to talk about here.  Don't think anyone above was ever in the Core anyway.   

 

On a related note Dave, if you go online, you will find plenty of "Real Marines" who have serious misgivings with this guy's plan. 

 

 

Yes, I belong to several Marine Corps groups on FB. Like everything else in this world, things change. The Marine Corps today isn't the same as it was during the beginning of OIF/OEF. The Marine Corps of that time wasn't the same as it was in Desert Storm and so on. Besides, these are only "plans".

Edited by Dave Roof
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