Jump to content
ARC Discussion Forums

Sign in to follow this  
Whiskey

USS Theodore Roosevelt

Recommended Posts

I wanted to put this up because it actually irks me enough to comment on it. At the same time I do not believe this needs to involve partisan politics. This is entirely a military topic.

 

As I was enjoying my morning coffee I came across several reports regarding the relieved Captain of the USS Theodore Roosevelt and the acting Secretary of The Navy's commentsthatgave to the crew member's yesterday (local time in Guam). This is outrageous. Even if the Captain did any wrongdoing in submitting his communication to higher headquarters, having the third highest level of authority call him stupid to his entire 4,000 member unit is despicable. I have had some pretty bad commanders in my years of service, some that truly deserved the title of stupid, but none of them ever received such lathing remarks from a officer or civilian that was higher rank than them. I'm wasn't Navy, but this could be any branch of service. 

 

This is equivalent to the SecArmy saying this stuff about a Brigadier or Major General leading a division size element to the entire division! What in the world was this guy thinking?!

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

On top of that, the Captain whose PRIMARY concern was his crew, is now in isolation with the virus.

 

The powers that be did not like that the captain complained "outside the chain of command."

 

The Captain did the RIGHT thing, perhaps not in the "right way".

 

He earned the respect of his crew,  sadly , at what cost.

Edited by phantom

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

IMO he needed to be fired, from what I'm hearing he went outside the CoC, publicly released sensitive/classified info and was thinking too emotionally to be an effective leader, he needed to be removed.

He didn't even go to the Battle Group Commander, who is a couple of knee-knockers down on the same ship!

My question is, how did he ever get screened for command in the first place?

The "We are not at war. Sailors do not need to die......" thing is bullcrap, if that was the case why did his carrier conduct flight ops?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Some of the most effective military leaders in the world were "thinking too emotionally" when it's their subordinates lives on the line. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The more information I get, the more I support his decision.

 

I think he panicked, then he shot an emotional e-mail out.  His boss says he found out when the e-mail hit his computer.

 

Blind-siding the Boss is always a no-win situation (in any job).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Having his boss call him stupid to his entire 4,000 member crew (or however are many left on the ship right now) SHOULD be a no-win situation as well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

SecNav did not call him "stupid" he said;

 

"If he didn’t think, in my opinion, that this information wasn’t going to get out into the public, in this day and information age that we live in, then he was either A, too naive or too stupid to be a commanding officer of a ship like this," Modly said of Crozier. "The alternative is that he did this on purpose."

 

Capt. Crozier caused a chit storm because he didn't like the way his superiors were handling something, for that, he is unfit for command.

 

BTW, 155 Sailors popped positive for the virus, that's about 2.8% of the crew. We've had more folks get sick from food poisoning that that and we never slowed down ops. Hell, one cruise we had an outbreak of food poisoning four times on a seven month cruise, no letter was ever sent. There's a reason why you never eat the Salisbury Steak on a carrier, not unless you want to lose ten pounds real quick.

 

Edited by GW8345

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

He can be my Captain anytime.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, GW8345 said:

BTW, 155 Sailors popped positive for the virus, that's about 2.8% of the crew.

 

That’s BS.   Many more have it (or will have it shortly).   As of yesterday, they hadn’t even been able to test half the crew.   
 

SecNav is a clown who is obviously being pressured from above to hang this guy.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
24 minutes ago, 11bee said:

That’s BS.   Many more have it (or will have it shortly).   As of yesterday, they hadn’t even been able to test half the crew.  

And your sources are?

 

If many more will get it why is it that over half of the crew is still onboard.

 

Also, if the Skipper was so concerned about his crew why did he allow a four day port visit to Vietnam to take place a month ago, in the middle of the virus outbreak in Asia?

 

Quote

SecNav is a clown who is obviously being pressured from above to hang this guy.

  Again, your sources are .................. or are you just armchair speculating?

Edited by GW8345

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, GW8345 said:

And your sources are?

 

If many more will get it why is it that over half of the crew is still onboard.

 

Also, if the Skipper was so concerned about his crew why did he allow a four day port visit to Vietnam to take place a month ago, in the middle of the virus outbreak in Asia?

 

  Again, your sources are .................. or are you just armchair speculating?

 

1) As of Apr. 5, the Navy said it had tested approximately 50 percent of the Theodore Roosevelt's crew and that there were 155 confirmed COVID-19 cases. Crozier himself has now reportedly contracted the virus, as well.

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/32906/navy-secretary-slams-captain-of-covid-19-stricken-carrier-media-in-surprise-visit-to-ship

 

2) Skipper was ordered by Pacific Fleet to make the port call.  CINCPAC said it wasn't felt that the visit would put the crew at risk.  Where you in the Navy?  If so, you should probably be aware that Skippers don't decide on the fly to pull into a port, these events are planned months in advance and are approved at the highest levels of the military and state dept.

 

3) Great Leader was reported to be furious over this issue.   Figure it out for yourself.  Doesn't it seem ironic that a Skipper was fired in record time for not crashing his ship into another?  I guess you can crash a ship and kill your crew mates and you keep your job for an extended period.  Send an email that upsets Great Leader and you are gone the next day.   Funny how that works...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

While I agree that he should not have gone outside the COC, I think it was important for the public to know what is going on on the Navy's ships. Just how is the Navy going to manage the coronavirus on all of its ships where men and women live in such close quarters? The virus could spread very rapidly, decimating the ranks. I also don't think it fair to compare this to food poisoning. Food poisoning, while not fun, is seldom fatal. Coronavirus is frequently fatal and the only effective way we have of fighting it is social distancing and isolation of those infected.

Perhaps the captain decided to sacrifice himself to get the word out. If he must pay a price for that, then so be it. These are extraordinary times. I'll say one thing. I was very impressed by the send off the captain got from his crew. It seems he was very popular with his crew. I was never in the Navy so I don't know if that is a common occurrence.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not to step too deep into a subject I'm definitely no expert in, but couldn't giving such a status report outside of the chain of command also be considered a pretty big security leak? I mean granted it's very far fetched scenario, BUT if someone were to be wanting to attack a naval ship, wouldn't a piece of information like a portion of the crew is sick be a sensitive classified thing that could put the ship at greater risk of attack? Yes, I know NO ONE is dumb enough to attack a modern super carrier....but still.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
29 minutes ago, 11bee said:

 

1) As of Apr. 5, the Navy said it had tested approximately 50 percent of the Theodore Roosevelt's crew and that there were 155 confirmed COVID-19 cases. Crozier himself has now reportedly contracted the virus, as well.

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/32906/navy-secretary-slams-captain-of-covid-19-stricken-carrier-media-in-surprise-visit-to-ship

 

2) Skipper was ordered by Pacific Fleet to make the port call.  CINCPAC said it wasn't felt that the visit would put the crew at risk.  Where you in the Navy?  If so, you should probably be aware that Skippers don't decide on the fly to pull into a port, these events are planned months in advance and are approved at the highest levels of the military and state dept.

 

3) Great Leader was reported to be furious over this issue.   Figure it out for yourself.  Doesn't it seem ironic that a Skipper was fired in record time for not crashing his ship into another?  I guess you can crash a ship and kill your crew mates and you keep your job for an extended period.  Send an email that upsets Great Leader and you are gone the next day.   Funny how that works...

Yes, I was in the Navy, 20.5 years with over 4.5 years of time on Aircraft Carriers with a little bit of time on the Roosevelt.

 

I am fully aware what goes into a port visit and I also know that a port visit can be cancelled with ease.

 

Just because you read something on the internet doesn't mean it's true.

 

And I see you still can't resist the chance to interject your politics in a thread , even after the OP asks for no politics.

 

19 minutes ago, Mstor said:

While I agree that he should not have gone outside the COC, I think it was important for the public to know what is going on on the Navy's ships. Just how is the Navy going to manage the coronavirus on all of its ships where men and women live in such close quarters? The virus could spread very rapidly, decimating the ranks. I also don't think it fair to compare this to food poisoning. Food poisoning, while not fun, is seldom fatal. Coronavirus is frequently fatal and the only effective way we have of fighting it is social distancing and isolation of those infected.

Perhaps the captain decided to sacrifice himself to get the word out. If he must pay a price for that, then so be it. These are extraordinary times. I'll say one thing. I was very impressed by the send off the captain got from his crew. It seems he was very popular with his crew. I was never in the Navy so I don't know if that is a common occurrence.

If you want to know what goes on onboard a Navy ship I recommend you go down to your local Navy Recruiter and raise your right hand. There are things that go on onboard navy ships that are none of the public's business, it's call OPSEC.

 

The fatality rate for the virus here in the States is around 2.8% using the number publicly available, an most of those who are elderly, not young fit Sailors. They have more of a chance of getting killed doing their job then from dying from the virus.

 

The Captain disclosed sensitive/classified information, went outside the CoC, blindsided his boss, and acted irrationally, not something a Skipper of an Aircraft Carrier should be doing.

 

As for him being popular with his crew, a good CO shouldn't be popular, he should be RESPECTED.

Edited by GW8345

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
55 minutes ago, GW8345 said:

And your sources are?

 

If many more will get it why is it that over half of the crew is still onboard.

 

Also, if the Skipper was so concerned about his crew why did he allow a four day port visit to Vietnam to take place a month ago, in the middle of the virus outbreak in Asia?

 

  Again, your sources are .................. or are you just armchair speculating?

 

He was essentially ordered to allow the port visit because the Commander In Chief had been dismissing the entire threat of the virus at that exact time-frame. Even if he did make the port call with no concerns, that doesn't excuse the fact that the Navy's leadership began failing them after the virus started to spread.

 

As far as calling him stupid, yeah, he did.

 

"If he didn’t think, in my opinion, that this information wasn’t going to get out into the public, in this day and information age that we live in, then he was either A, too naive or too stupid to be a commanding officer of a ship like this," Modly said of Crozier

 

https://www.foxnews.com/us/acting-navy-secretary-ousted-uss-theodore-roosevelt-captain-stupid-naive-coronavirus

Edited by Whiskey

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, GW8345 said:

Yes, I was in the Navy, 20.5 years with over 4.5 years of time on Aircraft Carriers with a little bit of time on the Roosevelt.

 

I am fully aware what goes into a port visit and I also know that a port visit can be cancelled with ease.

 

Just because you read something on the internet doesn't mean it's true.

 

And I see you still can't resist to interject your politics in a thread , even after the OP asks for no politics.

 

If you want to know what goes on onboard a Navy ship I recommend you go down to your local Navy Recruiter and raise your right hand. There are things that go on onboard navy ships that are none of the public's business, it's call OPSEC.

 

The fatality rate for the virus here in the States is around 2.8% using the number publicly available, an most of those who are elderly, not young fit Sailors. They have more of a chance of getting killed doing their job then from dying from the virus.

 

The Captain disclosed sensitive/classified information, went outside the CoC, blindsided his boss, and acted irrationally, not something a Skipper of an Aircraft Carrier should be doing.

 

As for him being popular with his crew, a good CO shouldn't be popular, he should be RESPECTED.

 

You must have had a really horrible time in the Navy because a really good Commander is BOTH POPULAR and RESPECTED.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Whiskey said:

 

He was essentially ordered to allow the port visit because the Commander In Chief had been dismissing the entire threat of the virus at that exact time-frame. Even if he did make the port call with no concerns, that doesn't excuse the fact that the Navy's leadership began failing them after the virus started to spread.

 

As far as calling him stupid, yeah, he did. (BTW it's your favorite propaganda machine saying this too Gerry)

 

"If he didn’t think, in my opinion, that this information wasn’t going to get out into the public, in this day and information age that we live in, then he was either A, too naive or too stupid to be a commanding officer of a ship like this," Modly said of Crozier

 

https://www.foxnews.com/us/acting-navy-secretary-ousted-uss-theodore-roosevelt-captain-stupid-naive-coronavirus

Who said Navy leadership began to fail them after the spread,  besides a fired skipper?

 

Why don't you post the entire quote, like the part that says "The alternative is that he did this on purpose."

 

And I thought you didn't want politics in this discussions, if so why make a statement "BTW it's your favorite propaganda machine saying this too Gerry".

 

Guess 11B isn't the only one who can't resist interjecting their politics into a discussion.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Whiskey said:

 

You must have had a really horrible time in the Navy because a really good Commander is BOTH POPULAR and RESPECTED.

I always love it when people who have never served a day in a leadership position in the Navy tell me what it takes to be a leader in the Navy.

 

I had a good time in the Navy and look back on my time with fond memories.

 

If you are respected, popularity will follow.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, GW8345 said:

SecNav did not call him "stupid" he said;

 

"If he didn’t think, in my opinion, that this information wasn’t going to get out into the public, in this day and information age that we live in, then he was either A, too naive or too stupid to be a commanding officer of a ship like this," Modly said of Crozier. "The alternative is that he did this on purpose."

 

Capt. Crozier caused a chit storm because he didn't like the way his superiors were handling something, for that, he is unfit for command.

 

BTW, 155 Sailors popped positive for the virus, that's about 2.8% of the crew. We've had more folks get sick from food poisoning that that and we never slowed down ops. Hell, one cruise we had an outbreak of food poisoning four times on a seven month cruise, no letter was ever sent. There's a reason why you never eat the Salisbury Steak on a carrier, not unless you want to lose ten pounds real quick.

 

 

I get what you're saying about only 2.8% of the crew being infected, but look at ANY of the other cruise liners that had outbreaks of COVID-19 and you can see why his fears about an outbreak on his ship was justified. This thing spreads exponentially.

 

Naval leadership apparently wanted to review his conduct and not necessarily remove him from command (yet), but the acting SecNav decided to flex and dismiss him from command. Modly also threw out melodramatic terms like "betrayal" in his address, which is causing grief because statements like that are grounds for court martial... Crozier should've exercised better judgement and gone through proper channels, but maybe he did and he wasn't getting the response he deemed adequate for the safety of his crew. This is why the Navy wanted to review the events before making any decisions.

 

In retrospect, Modly is the furthest out of line with his recent conduct which is conduct unbecoming of the so-called acting secretary of our Navy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, GW8345 said:

Who said Navy leadership began to fail them after the spread,  besides a fired skipper?

 

Why don't you post the entire quote, like the part that says "The alternative is that he did this on purpose."

 

And I thought you didn't want politics in this discussions, if so why make a statement "BTW it's your favorite propaganda machine saying this too Gerry".

 

Guess 11B isn't the only one who can't resist interjecting their politics into a discussion.

 

You are 100% right about my comment and I deleted it immediately after posting it.

 

I believe the point I have tried to make and others have as well is the fact doesn't change that the acting SecNav DID in fact call a US Navy Captain "stupid" to all of his former command. Can't change that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, GW8345 said:

I always love it when people who have never served a day in a leadership position in the Navy tell me what it takes to be a leader in the Navy.

 

I had a good time in the Navy and look back on my time with fond memories.

 

If you are respected, popularity will follow.

 

I NEVER said I know what it's like to be a leader in the Navy and you should have your eyes checked. I know what it's like to be a leader and I know what it's like to be led, by both good and bad commanders.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Whiskey said:

 

You are 100% right about my comment and I deleted it immediately after posting it.

 

I believe the point I have tried to make and others have as well is the fact doesn't change that the acting SecNav DID in fact call a US Navy Captain "stupid" to all of his former command. Can't change that.

No, SecNav said he either did it on purpose or he was stupid/naive, it all depends on the Captain's intent.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, boscosticks said:

 

I get what you're saying about only 2.8% of the crew being infected, but look at ANY of the other cruise liners that had outbreaks of COVID-19 and you can see why his fears about an outbreak on his ship was justified. This thing spreads exponentially.

 

Naval leadership apparently wanted to review his conduct and not necessarily remove him from command (yet), but the acting SecNav decided to flex and dismiss him from command. Modly also threw out melodramatic terms like "betrayal" in his address, which is causing grief because statements like that are grounds for court martial... Crozier should've exercised better judgement and gone through proper channels, but maybe he did and he wasn't getting the response he deemed adequate for the safety of his crew. This is why the Navy wanted to review the events before making any decisions.

 

In retrospect, Modly is the furthest out of line with his recent conduct which is conduct unbecoming of the so-called acting secretary of our Navy.

 

Thank you, you've managed to put into words what I have not been and did it more respectfully than I ever could. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Best Change of Command ceremony I've ever seen. My hat's off to him, he'll sleep well at night and his Sailors will have had one Commander in their career give it all up for them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Whiskey said:

 

Thank you, you've managed to put into words what I have not been and did it more respectfully than I ever could. 

 

 

You bet! Also, in my very humble and unimportant opinion: Modly is your run-of-the-mill POS and he'll get his 

 

:beer4:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...