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Finally; a new 1/72 Phantom


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6 minutes ago, ya-gabor said:

I did write a longer, tow part article for a modeling publication on our visit (together with Ken the Flankerman) to Zvezda where all the fine details were explained including the liquid you see in the process. I think it was too much detail but it was good to get it over with for those few who are interested.

I (and many people here I believe) would love to read it ! What publication and what issues ?

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Hi Laurent,

 

It was an article for Hungarian ProModel somewhere around 2013 or 2014. Will have to have a look for it.

I sent a shorter version of the text to Ken and I believe he published in a British modelling publication. I havent seen it and have no copy of it so absolutely no idea where this seconded version was published and what exactly did Ken use from my text.

 

The visit to Zvezda was extremely interesting!!!  They did show everything from the idea to the final plastic parts, packing and future developments. It was the time when the Su-27 kit was still only in CAD and pieces of steel cut and the blocks all identified for particular kit parts with appropriate drawings attached.

 

At the time I did publish here and on other forums some views of Zvezda and the making of the Su-27 kit. 

 

Best regards

Gabor

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Nothing really new -- just some different perspective of the partial test build.

 

Nice Aux Air Door presentation:

 

07ECDtP.jpg

 

Very detailed main gear without wheel hubs:

 

yw32h54.jpg

 

Figures included?:

 

SfoSwwj.jpg

 

Impressive raised detail on the fuselage centerline:

 

ADV2334.jpg

 

Looking forward to front fuselage progress shots.

 

Gene K

 

 

 

 

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7 hours ago, Craig Baldwin said:

Have we ever seen this many mould progress shots of a future release before?

 

Something similar was done by Eduard before the release of the MiG-21MF kit almost 10 years ago. They had a series of photo "introduction" about sprue progress on fakebook. With less technological views. But then came a change in marketing policy . . . 

 

I believe what FineMolds is doing (I mean the marketing value of showing progress) is excellent and will have considerable return in sales. 

As for the kit, well what can I say? Certainly look forward to it!!!!!!!!

 

Best regards

Gabor

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10 hours ago, ya-gabor said:

I believe what FineMolds is doing (I mean the marketing value of showing progress) is excellent and will have considerable return in sales. 

 

FM is evidently also visiting hobby shops with test shots in hand, generating publicity like this.

 

(Google Chrome has an excellent "Translate to English" feature which if used will allow reading of the shop owner's comments regarding the test shot in English (and other languages)).

 

Gene K

 

 

Edited by GeneK
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On 5/30/2020 at 10:15 PM, GeneK said:

 

Just keeps getting better and better, huh, Jonathan?

 

Next big reveal, I hope, is the intake pattern.

 

Gene K

 

I agree Gene; having just caught up on the new pictures, like you, I'm looking forward to see how the forward fuselage is done. It might even be moulded as a single upper section with a standard lower section as seen on most kits? The breakdown does seem to allow for both a short nose option and the potential for a RF-4 similar to the way Hasegawa does it.

 

I've also been thinking about how we get to a soft wing with the kit; how about the Revell F-4F? The Revell kit can be picked up relatively cheaply and as the slat actuators and the outer wings are separate they could be easily added without too much rework. Add an aftermarket belly strap such as the Flying Leathernecks one link and the retrofit option to early jets is also covered. At the very least it'd be an interim solution until either Fine Molds release a slatted wing kit or a proper aftermarket set appears (with maybe even a F-4G as well). We may get a clue as to Fine Mold's intent if there are flashed over holes on the lower wing inner surface.

 

Jonathan

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FineMolds is revealing on its pages some interesting details.

 

Here is the top after part press form. So it is made with a slide mould technology. Two sides and top separately and it seems that the joint line will be invisible since the fuselage top panel is an individual piece as we have seen it already.

The comment next to the image on FineMolds page was saying that there are still adjustments needed  to make it perfect.

 

 

The top of the mould (of course think of it as an inverted part and it is the negative of what the final plastic part will be) That long thing in the middle of the mould is the flat place for the top panel which we have seen as a separate part. 

 

P3r0aXA.jpg

 

Here is the inside of the underside. The opposite of what you see above

 

YFLOMYQ.jpg

 

 

The two side mould parts are mowing into position onto the fix part shown above

 

 

zJP6u4Q.jpg

 

 

And as shown before this is the anode, showing what the top after part sides should look like in the end. This was the anode for making the mowing side parts. The one on top of the above view.

 

teHDHQf.jpg

 

 

Hope it is understandable! ? ? 

 

 

Best regards

Gabor

Edited by ya-gabor
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My interpretation:

- 2nd photo is the final core of the mold

- 4th photo is the anode for to produce the port slider

I expect the middle-rear fuselage part mold to be composed of a core part and two cavity sliding parts. It's likely to me the part won't be attached to a (cold) runner. Similar mold breakdown to the GWH MiG-29 top part mold.

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There is absolutely no difference in what you are saying and my view. 

Yes 2nd is the the main part of the underside or you can call it a core. This is the inside mould of the after part. : ) It has the locator lines for engine parts/bulkhead positioning.

Forth is what you say, and I said the same only with other words. : )  : ) This is the sliding mould for the left side of the after fuselage panel. Here is the part showing the surface.

 

i5Zq0l0.jpg

 

 

And here is the top panel part which is a separate unit. It is a good idea in several ways, one of them is that they could be able later on to do a late Phantom version.

 

 

n6KW6Zt.jpg

 

Best regards

Gabor

Edited by ya-gabor
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The engine/exhaust fuselage seal strip and vent seems to be one part with the fuselage and it looks like the cut back type, correct for the -10 and -17 engines. So likely no early short-nosed variants (B, C, D...) are planned.

J

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Gabor, Laurent and Jeffrey,

 

Really interesting analysis of the slide mold technology involved!  I appreciate all your expertise.

 

Gene K

Edited by GeneK
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1 hour ago, JeffreyK said:

The engine/exhaust fuselage seal strip and vent seems to be one part with the fuselage and it looks like the cut back type, correct for the -10 and -17 engines. So likely no early short-nosed variants (B, C, D...) are planned.

J

 

It is possible.

But then why leave out the launch catapult hook panels???? There is no sensible reason for leaving those panels as a separate part apart from wanting later to add a version where the hooks are present.

 

sCVf6sk.jpg

 

There is a separate sprue which has the F-15 style fuel tanks which as far as I know are mainly used on late versions. It also has the small insert panels with flat surface where the hook should be. To me it looks like a sprue specially for F-4E versions. So there could be a replacement sprue for this one which corresponds to earlier versions.

The omission of those hook panels could be a long term planning for other versions which are somewhere only in a distant future.

 

 

eVfU4E9.jpg

 

Concerning the front fuselage part. Looking back at older posts from FineMolds one can see some interesting things way in the background. In many cases one should look and comprehend the whole picture and not only what is obvious. One only has to zoom in  . . .

 

This was shown on 23rd of April. OK it is still not plastic parts but there are some details on those tool drawings.  : )  : )   : )

 

 

rRnHSnw.jpg

 

 Zoom in and turn it 180 degrees

 

ZEWpZqO.jpg

 

 

At the top of the drawing that small insert plan of the nose to me does look like an RF-4 version!!!!!!!!!!! 

What do you think????

 

 

Best regards

Gabor

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14 minutes ago, ya-gabor said:

At the top of the drawing that small insert plan of the nose to me does look like an RF-4 version!!!!!!!!!!! 

What do you think????

 

As much as I wish I could see it, I don't. 

 

But I am stocking up on the various pods that the RF-4EJ carried.

 

Gene K

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1 hour ago, GeneK said:

 

As much as I wish I could see it, I don't. 

Gene K

 

Looks like I will have to ask FineMolds to show a better view of those drawings. : )  : )   : )  

 

It is possible that I want to see it, but it is certain that it is

- a long nosed side view of the nose section

- and I dont see any gun under the nose there, more a ronded line under the nose which is why the idea of RF-4 came to mind.

OK it could be that it is a short gun F-4E but I dont know if Japan had them or not. 

 

So the only solution is to ask FM.  : )

 

Best regards

Gabor

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While Europe was sleeping the first test moulding of the back after part was made. Here it is:

It is visible where the joint line of the slide moulding is hidden so there will be no visible joint line to sand down. OK, one can say that the top panel joint line will be there, but if the fit is good then it will not really show. That is a plus in comparison with a version where the top panel is made together with the whole after part. Which is possible with slide moulding but there is an inevitable joint line seam.

 

 

FuXJXQm.jpg

 

 

 

PYVj0Dx.jpg

 

ny4XjmL.jpg

 

 

Actually I did write to FineMolds yesterday about that drawing, if it is an RF-4 or not. Look forward to reply, although I understand as with most companies it is unlikely that they will say anything but from what I could see communication at FineMolds is a bit different from others. So . . .

 

Anyway I gave it a try.

 

Best regards

Gabor

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A close up has appeared on MF's facebook feed and it looks like the seal strips could be separate parts, or perhaps moulded to the nozzles (would be a nice idea actually:

104018409_2988952307885753_1583095834665

 

(p.s. you beat me to posting it Gabor 🙂 )

 

Edited by JeffreyK
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46 minutes ago, JeffreyK said:

(p.s. you beat me to posting it Gabor 🙂 )

 

 

It was not intentional! I dont think it is a race. : )  : )

I just thought it was of interest to other forum members. So posted the photos. It is great to see that the kit is developing. 

 

OK FineMolds, now how about the forward fuselage !?

 

 

Best regards

Gabor

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5 hours ago, JeffreyK said:

A close up has appeared on MF's facebook feed and it looks like the seal strips could be separate parts, or perhaps moulded to the nozzles (would be a nice idea actually:

 

 

Here is an answer to your question. : )  : )  : )  The separate ring (OK half rings) are there. : )

 

oamTx5P.jpg

 

 

 

Remember this is 72nd scale. I love the pylon! It looks amazing! If I could make out this was on the other side of the mould which had the back/after fuselage part.

 

HHcxTvB.jpg

 

Best regards

Gabor

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27 minutes ago, ya-gabor said:

 

 

Here is an answer to your question. : )  : )  : )  The separate ring (OK half rings) are there. : )

 

oamTx5P.jpg

 

Remember this is 72nd scale. I love the pylon! It looks amazing! If I could make out this was on the other side of the mould which had the back/after fuselage part.

 

Wow, that was quick! Great for accuracy, not entirely sure about having them as separate parts in 1:72...Moulded to the nozzles could have worked...?

Cheers,

J

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A great-looking kit, no doubt.  But ANOTHER PHANTOM kit?  Don't get me wrong, the Phantom II is probably my most favorite jet of all time but can we get a new 72nd U-2/TR-1 kit?  I mean, something different for a change!

 

WARDOG

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1 hour ago, JeffreyK said:

 

Wow, that was quick! Great for accuracy, not entirely sure about having them as separate parts in 1:72...Moulded to the nozzles could have worked...?

Cheers,

J

 

Hi Jeffrey,

 

Well you are not far from them (looking from here in Europe), why dont you ask them!

 

I have no problem with having it as a separate part. Far smaller parts are included in a 72nd scale kit. So for me no problem. 

I am sure they have a perfectly understandable, clear answer for making it separately. There is no point in increasing part number just for fun! : )  : )   : )

 

 

Hi Glynn Jacobs

 

A Phantom to todays standard (and I am not speaking about Airfix MiG-17 quality or Zvezda Mi-24 no detailing in this case) and especially to such level of detailing is always welcome! When was the last Phantom in 72nd? Not in the past few years that is for sure.

 

I would love a good U-2 especially those early ones in natural metal finish! Had the chance to have a very close look at U-2 remains both in Moscow and Cuba so have some extra info for a my build in future if it will ever come. 

I am sure someone will do it! But for the moment I am happy with this Phantastic F-4!!!!

 

Best regards

Gabor

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59 minutes ago, ya-gabor said:

<...> When was the last Phantom in 72nd? <...>

 

The last Phantom was Academy's snap-fit kit in 2015, but they only released a J. While generally decent, it does have some simplifications. The last gun-nosed Phantom from a new tooling was Revell's F-4F, way back in 2000 (it kinda feels wrong to say way back in 2000, but then again, it was 20 years ago). Very nice kit, not so nice model. 

 

So..... yay for a new Phantom! :yahoo:

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On 5/26/2020 at 2:54 PM, GeneK said:

 

Well, actually a two-piece  "one piece" version.      

 

:whistle:

 

Looks like the clear parts include the nose gear door with the landing light (nice!!), and the HUD Combining Glass,  but not sure what the other pieces are. Since those pieces are on a separate tree, it may indicate  plans for trees for other variants. For example, a new separate tree could include the one piece front windshield.

 

Gene K

Too bad they did not design the clear part of the windscreen that way that the lower part is extended into the fuselage. On the real deal there is no lower frame visible. Recreating that feature on the model is not possible if you are like me and blend in the windscreen ( actually the to quarter panels as they were called) with putty and sanding into the fuselage. Hence there will either a glue seam be visible or it needs to be cover with paint.

Cheers

Scout

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