AMMO MiG-17F in 48th scale

[Buckmeister]

Hopefully our friends at ResKit will come through with some goodies like seats and wheels for this kit.

 

Slava Ukraini!

[ya-gabor]

The MiG-17 is a funny subject. For most it is a transitional aircraft, the older bro of MiG-15 and something before the legendary MiG-21 came along. So as such very little attention has been payed to it, simple,  kit manufacturers don’t expect anything from it. AMMO was brave to venture into this. But for example the boss of Edu was asked thousands of times by Czech modellers why there is no MiG-17 by this company. Simple answer he does not like it, feels it is important aircraft . . . But it seems apart from some Chinese makers all the rest refused to do any kits of it. And hope no one will consider the joke by Airfix as a real kit. Before that Hasegawa from the times when Dino’s were around, KP with a state of the art (for what, was it early 1970’s) . . .  That Hobby Craft (was it??) kit, some Vac-Forms . . .  

 

The thing is it is going to be interesting how modellers react to this kit and what sales will it generate. Will the maker AMMO be persuaded to make other versions? Time will tell.

 

I for one like the subject more and more! : )   : )  : )

Sure aftermarket companies will come up with thing. Actually AMMO already did and in the August release will include some resins. The Czech aftermarket company also did all sorts of things: they have canopy masks, photoetch extras, steel straps, also 3D printed cockpit parts, only last week announced wheels ( I suspect they will be 3D printed and not resin cast). I am sure Quinta Studio will also have a great cockpit for it eventually. And yes some other companies as well like you mentioned ResKit. They do make some fantastic sets!!!!

 

There is a lot to do on this kit, hundreds of possibilities and not because the kit needs all that correcting but more for adding all that extra detailing. Sure someone will do the engine and interior of the after fuselage, so one can pull the airframe apart like on the real one.

 

The only question is will it all economically work out for the makers, Will modellers be interested in this kit and in all the extras???

Hope so!!! Time will tell.

 

Hope to be able to report on all of this in the near future.

 

Best regards from a very hot place (but as I see in the news we are not alone in this)

Gabor   

Edited July 15, 2023 by ya-gabor

[ya-gabor]

Here are the wheels in the new AMMO MiG-17F kit. They build up from two halves and have both raised and engraved detailing. The wheels are shown under weight, with slight bulge on sides and a “flat spot” to make them look more authentic.

 

 

Building them is not a rocket science. Did some sanding and polishing and they are ready for paint.

 

 

The actuality of bringing here the wheels is made by last weeks announcement of resin (or 3D print) sets especially for the AMMO kit.

 

 

Best regards

Gabor

[GeneK]

16 hours ago, ya-gabor said:

 Will modellers be interested in this kit and in all the extras???

 Not sure about "all the extras" since the kit looks very complete, but you sure sold me on the kit, Gabor. Thanks for such a comprehensive thread!

 

Gene K

[ya-gabor]

Hi GeneK,

 

Glad you are interested in the kit! It is a forgotten aircraft, so it was time someone did it!!!

 

Absolutely, the kit is OK as it is, but I am sure there are a lot of modellers out there who would want to open up some panels, show the engine . . .  There are many who will buy extras like a new cockpit, ejection seat, wheels or whatever. Some will buy them because they really think it is important to add that special bit of detailing, some will simply buy because it is “fashionable” or cool to have extras on the kit (even if they are not really needed in the first place), or simply because there are aftermarket makers who will shove down your throat anything simply by saying that “This is the only CORRECT nose cone, the one and only made by us!”.

 

In my case I have made a new MiG-17 ejection seat simply because there is a real one just in front of me here at home and I love doing some scratch building and detailing using my trusty 3D printer, my 10 fingers.

It is called creation, and this is what our hobby should be about!

 

So back to Wimbledon final.

 

Best regards

Gabor

[Buckmeister]

The reason I like ResKit’s wheels is that they do the hubs as separate parts.  Makes painting much easier.

[tony.t]

2 hours ago, Buckmeister said:

The reason I like ResKit’s wheels is that they do the hubs as separate parts.  Makes painting much easier.

 

Agree 100%

 

***********

 

Kit looks very good. Currently building fighting the 1/32 Trumpeter, so the 1/48 Ammo MiG will be a delight afterwards.

 

Tony  

[ya-gabor]

Try to share all the information and some questions from the different forums around the world where I post about kits.

On a Czech forum question was asked about the general layout /size authenticity of the AMMO kit and that wing leading edge question. My answer was:

 

Back in Moson I did ask the AMMO representatives about the wing and its speciality with the double leading edge angle and also the change in profile. He said that they were following the arguments about this question when the toy Airthick kit was analysed on Brickmodeller. They knew about the special feature of the wing and it was designed into the AMMO kit.

Yes it is there on the kit, I will make some photos to illustrate this. The leading edge sharpness at the root of the wing is in my opinion could be sharper based on photos but it could be only my eyes going off in the extreme heat we have here.

 

Did some approximate measurements with my analogue instruments and old eyes so it is not 100%. This is not exact but shows what the kit is like:

Length 11264 mm which in 48th scale 234.6, on the kit approximately 233.3

 

Wingspan 9628 mm which in 48th scale would be 200.58mm, on the kit around 200.6

 

So it is fairly good in my opinion.

 

No, I did not compare the kit to drawings. Which drawings should I compare them with??? If there was some original MiG OKB design construction plans somewhere then I would compare them to it. But the drawings in different modelling publications are not worth looking at in my opinion.

 

 

In response a photo was shown of a top view taken most probably with a small photo drone. This photo could be used as a reference but the thing is it still has distortion by the camera, so its not really a perfect plan view to compare a kit too it.

 

 

It looks nice. But it is the photo is wrong way around! It is top mirror image of the real aircraft!!! No problem turning around. Like this.

 

 

But. . .

The other problem is that it lacks the big air brakes of the MiG-17F and the tail section is too narrow!!!  Could it be an early MiG-17A with non-afterburning VK-1 engine and small airbrakes on the underside??? Yes it is!

Interesting example since it already had the SRD-1M range finder antenna. Well on the photo only the hump of it is visible. And had no Barija M antenna or the base for it.

 

Best regards

Gabor

[ya-gabor]

Returning to the question of the wing profile. Made few photos today. Well it is difficult to illustrate it, just as on the real aircraft, but hope that I did succeed in a way. Added pencil line which are parallel to the flight direction and can hopefully illustrate the wing profile at the leading edge.

 

If one looks at the centre line of the wing between the top and the bottom surface then one can see that the more rounded outboard cross section “extends” more to the bottom surface, just like on the real aircraft. While the sharper, more pointed cross section at the wing root ends at the centre line.

 

 

 

So looking at it one can say that AMMO did capture correctly the double profile question. As they have said they did follow the discussion few years ago on Brickmodeller about this subject and made the wing as it should be, not like that “famous” Airthick 72nd scale kit.

 

 

Here is a reminder to anyone who missed it first time around few years ago what all the fuss is about with the wings on the MiG-17. Photos are from a walkaround in America and my own.

 

 

 

 

Best regards

Gabor

[dai phan]

Hi all,

 

When is the expected release date in the USA? Dai 

[ya-gabor]

1 hour ago, dai phan said:

Hi all,

 

When is the expected release date in the USA? Dai 

 

Sorry I have no idea about this.

Some versions (the Arab simple boxing)  "could be" on sale at AMMO already as noted earlier here. Have no idea if there is an importer in US or everyone has to try to orger it for himself from somewhere.

 

Something completely different:

If everything works as I plan then should have something interesting about the kit here for everyone interested.  

 

Best regards

Gabor

[ya-gabor]

I had an idea last week. Why not make a video of the AMMO kit and share it with you. So on the weekend set up some lights on the workbench to record it. Did this with a mobile, with picture format of course in horizontal. Added it to the comp, had a look it was as it was (could have been better but. . .) perfectly in horizontal position in MP4 format as required. Created a YouTube account, uploaded the video, did everything as required by YT. Pressed Enter to share the video on the channel.

There it was  . . .

 

But I believe the very “Intelligent” program noticed that I made the recording with a phone and so turned the picture on its side, creating a vertical format. Tried everything, but there is no such thing as editing the picture or rather turning it around 90­­°.

 

So had to take it down from the channel. : (   : (   OK, but how do you turn it so it will be in horizontal form as it is visible on my comp????????????????????????????????      just the same as any other video on the channel.   Is it only me???????????

 

Anyone have a suggestion??

 

The YouTube support desk has no such solutions, the YTStudio program has no solution for turning the image the way I want it to be.

 

Best regards

Gabor

[clumsy]

Gabor, a different subject with a connection to Mig-17 wing;  does this sharp-rounded LE stuff exist for Mig-15 too?

The reason I ask is because I saw a Mig-15 UTI at Flugwerft Schleissheim and I thought I realised it so. But since the plane was not at a position to get by I could not be sure.

Thsnks in advance,

Arkut

[ya-gabor]

1 hour ago, clumsy said:

Gabor, a different subject with a connection to Mig-17 wing;  does this sharp-rounded LE stuff exist for Mig-15 too?

The reason I ask is because I saw a Mig-15 UTI at Flugwerft Schleissheim and I thought I realised it so. But since the plane was not at a position to get by I could not be sure.

Thsnks in advance,

Arkut

 

No!

 

The MiG-15 had a "straight" leading edge, that is it had a constant angle in comparison to fuselage centre line. It was more rounded all the way and the fuselage attachment at the root was also more rounded. The wing had the same profile so there was no need for this breake in leading edge and change in profile.

 

The detailed "examination" of the two MiG-17F's at Groome Lake showed clearly that both the wing and the flight caracteristics of the 17 were superior to the 15. It was always considered by Soviets as an upgrade of the 15 with new and better wings and afterburner engine.

 

Best regarfds

Gabor

[clumsy]

Thank you for the reply Gabor.

Then may be I got tricked with lighting of the museum.

 

 

Edited July 27, 2023 by clumsy

[ya-gabor]

1 hour ago, clumsy said:

Thank you for the reply Gabor.

Then may be I got tricked with lighting of the museum.

 

 

 

Hi Arkut,

 

I see what you mean. But no, this is a continuous radius leading edge on that Polish UTI MiG-15 (Lim- something, cannot really see the pair of factory numbers at frame 13 where the tail comes off. based on that it would be clear which version it is).

 

Have to say it is a nicely preserved example there!!! : )  : )  : )

 

The two seater had the same wing as the fighter, in fact the Polish manufactured trainers were conversions from earlier fighter aircraft.

 

It would have been a different story if it is one of those Chinese built examples (J- something) where the UTI cabin was drafted onto a MiG-17 fuselage, so the wing would have been that peculiar MiG-17 double angle version. Don’t know if there are any of those here in Europe. (Sorry, have to correct myself, there are some in Albania but have no idea what happened to them in the end).

 

Best regards

Gabor

[ya-gabor]

I had an idea last week. Why not make a video of the AMMO kit and share it with you. So on the weekend set up some lights on the workbench to record it.

This video is something new for me, hence the name Take One.  I never done this before so the technical background is not perfect but what it all should be about is the actual subject and not what surrounds it. This is brand new territory for me.

I don’t have the technical background for this video, set up a couple of lights and that was it. I know it is a bit rough at the edges, but next time, if there will be a next time, try to do it better.

There are no frills, nothing flashy, pop-up windows, smooth background music, subtitles, fancy graphics, hunting for likes or views . . .  just hard-core plastic facts. : )  : )  But after all this is what this hobby should be about.

What I can show is what you get in the box.

 

So here is Something completely different: Take One Part 1

 

Opinions about the kit? Everyone can make up their own opinion. Make a choice based on what they see and what they want from a kit. This is Part 1 of Take One showing the plastic parts and Part 2 of it will follow shortly (if I manage to upload it) which shows all the rest that is included in the box.

There was lots more to show about the kit, but even this way it turned up a bit long. If there is a next time, try to get it more concise.  : )  : )

Have fun!

 

 

 

There were some issues with the rotation of the video but eventually I solved it, so hopefully one can see it as it was intended to be.

 

Best regards

Gabor

[boom175]

I'm looking forward to this kit, Nice video

[ya-gabor]

16 minutes ago, boom175 said:

I'm looking forward to this kit, Nice video

 

Hi Boom175,

 

Thanks! I know there are some things that I should work on next time but it is a learning curve.

 

There is more on the way. : )  : )

 

Part 2 will have a look at all the other paper, brass, resin . . . based extras in the box.

And there could be one more part with everything else already available or soon to be available from the aftermarket makers.

 

Best regards

Gabor

[Gwen Phoenix]

Hi Gabor,

How would you say this kit compares to the Hobby Boss one?

I really fancy the MiG-17F, so I might as well buy this one from AMMO if it's just a tad better than the one I already have.

I mainly focus on shape accuracy; all of the other matters like resin/decal add-ons I could do without.

Thanks a lot.

Cheers,

 

Gwen

[ya-gabor]

Hi Gwen,

 

The thing is I dont have the Chinese kit. Sorry! In fact the last I had before this AMMO kit was that vac-form /plastic Hobby Craft many, many, many decades ago. What I can compare it to is the real metal, the real MiG-17.

What I can do is to look at details of this kit. The wing is closest to the real aircraft with all those unique features pointed out earlier. Fuselage shape is good, canopy shape is good.

The AMMO kit is a MiG-17F late production version or if you want Polish built Lim-5. One has to know that Lim-5’s were exported to so many places so most of the 17’s outside Soviets were the Polish aircraft. So building Arabs, GDR, Polish, Vietnamese would / coluld be best from this.

 

I know its not much of a help but still.

 

Best regards

Gabor

[Buckmeister]

1 hour ago, Gwen Phoenix said:

Hi Gabor,

How would you say this kit compares to the Hobby Boss one?

I really fancy the MiG-17F, so I might as well buy this one from AMMO if it's just a tad better than the one I already have.

I mainly focus on shape accuracy; all of the other matters like resin/decal add-ons I could do without.

Thanks a lot.

Cheers,

 

Gwen

 

The Hobby Boss MiG-17 is basically a work of fiction. I don’t have the Ammo kit in my hands (picking it up next week when I visit my friend in Europe, where I got free shipping), but from what I’ve seen here and elsewhere, the Ammo kit is not even in the same universe as the Hobby Boss kit.  Far more accurate in every way. Maybe not perfect, but orders of magnitude better than HB.

[Laurent]

14 hours ago, Buckmeister said:

 

The Hobby Boss MiG-17 is basically a work of fiction. I don’t have the Ammo kit in my hands (picking it up next week when I visit my friend in Europe, where I got free shipping), but from what I’ve seen here and elsewhere, the Ammo kit is not even in the same universe as the Hobby Boss kit.  Far more accurate in every way. Maybe not perfect, but orders of magnitude better than HB.

Could you please explain what's wrong with the 1/48 HB kit ?

[Laurent]

On 7/27/2023 at 3:56 PM, clumsy said:

Then may be I got tricked with lighting of the museum.

It seems to me something is indeed happening starting from about the middle of the two fences to outside of the outer fence

 

 

 

According to https://m-selig.ae.illinois.edu/ads/aircraft.html, the inner wing is based on TsAGI S-10 airfoil while outer wing is based on TsAGI SR-3 airfoil. I wonder where the transition area is. Anyway perhaps the airfoil is the same on the middle and outer wing but the incidence slightly more negative on the outer wing. Twisted wing.

Edited July 29, 2023 by Laurent

[Buckmeister]

10 hours ago, Laurent said:

Could you please explain what's wrong with the 1/48 HB kit ?

 

It would be much easier to explain what’s not wrong with it.  And that’s a very short list.