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Trumpeter announces new 1:48 scale Su-33.


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Their promotion on facebook is pretty bold.

"Effort+Patience= Best Detail&Best Quality. Brand New Tooled SU-33 Russian Carrier-based Heavy Jet Fighter in 48th scale coming in Early 2016. Keep following our update and witness the revolution of the Molding Method. Only from Trumpeter&HobbyBoss.— with Scott Dimmick, Roman Volchenkov, Yashkin Eugeny, Dana John Nield, Gergo Szaszko, Cesar Schweik Gonzalez Rubio, Jon Bernstein and Carlos Blanco."

They are saying they will be using a new molding method which I think is what we are seeing on GWH Mig-29sF-15s and AMK Mig-31.

Also, they are saying in early 2016, which means they are far into designing the mold etc. Could this old company which designed Su-33 has sold their molds to two places :D lol.

Do you guys know any of the names, by the way?

Edited by foxmulder_ms
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to quote Trumpeter's statement on their facebook page:

'"Effort+Patience= Best Detail&Best Quality. Brand New Tooled SU-33 Russian Carrier-based Heavy Jet Fighter in 48th scale coming in Early 2016. Keep following our update and witness the revolution of the Molding Method. Only from Trumpeter&HobbyBoss.'"

wonder what revolution of the molding method it will be...

i would have been more upset of having already ordered 2 kinetic Su-33, if they have claimed that this time it would have been "accuracy first"...

but since PLANAF will operate J-15 (or already does?) i have no doubt that one or both companies (kinetic and trumpeter) have planned a J-15 that will share most tooling with their Su-33... and that both companies shouldn't have much difficulties to find their market. (a 1/48 J-15 should be a great hit in the domestic market, for sure...)

it would be cool if we could choose from two different excellent 1/48 Su-33... but for the moment, we can already be happy, because we know that, there'll be at least one excellent 1/48 Su-33 kit available very soon...

Edited by mingwin
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i was also wondering who these guys where, and, after a quick look, it seems that the first one is an "Armor guy"...

and also, the first things that have come to my mind while reading their statement was that they'll be sharing the same tooling with Kinetic...

one thing is sure, if they really go forward with this, they'll have to sell it really cheap, if they want to compete with what seems to be a fair offering from the competition...

the downside for Kinetic is their distribution network... which is more limited than Trumpeter's one... (then again, maybe a good reason to share tooling cost, and make agreement...i'm just speculating here!)

Edited by mingwin
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Exciting but confusing. First of all Trumpeter and Kinetic will be tooling separate molds, correct? The technology might be similar (is it the slide molding that's being implied here?) but is it also the same company cutting the molds? This is the impression I am getting from what's being said here and the Kinetic Su-33. Can somebody with the knowledge of the situation clarify please?

I wonder whether both companies knew if the other one was also working on the Su-33. Both kits announced on the same day??? Can't help but think for both Trumpeter and Kinetic it must be at least somewhat worrisome that the direct competition is announced on the same day. Never seen something like this before.

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Do you guys know any of the names, by the way?

It should be noted that the names are those who shared the post. I know eight of the names and they are not involved in production, research, or development. Simply fans.

Regards,

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i was also wondering who these guys where, and, after a quick look, it seems that the first one is an "Armor guy"...

and also, the first things that have come to my mind while reading their statement was that they'll be sharing the same tooling with Kinetic...

one thing is sure, if they really go forward with this, they'll have to sell it really cheap, if they want to compete with what seems to be a fair offering from the competition...

the downside for Kinetic is their distribution network... which is more limited than Trumpeter's one... (then again, maybe a good reason to share tooling cost, and make agreement...i'm just speculating here!)

Why did you say that they are "sharing the same tooling"? What exactly was mentioned on their facebook?

If that is the case then I would assume that there will be very little difference in the contents, except of course maybe the decals and boxing; and that will leave us a simple decision to make - just picking the brand you like more.

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why??? ...because, if the Kinetic Kit is what we've seen from the Aviation Art test shots, it will be state of the art, precise ,accurate, and very detailed model kit. hard to beat IMHO.

so, for me, from what i've seen so far from Trumpeter, (in 1/48 aircraft kits, never been blown away by their offering... ) i highly doubt they'll be able to offer something better than what Kinetic will.

for me, the only way to back their statement is that they'll use someone else's tooling based on someone else's research...

and as stated in my post, it's just pure speculation. nothing based on "insider" information.

Edited by mingwin
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First of all Trumpeter and Kinetic will be tooling separate molds, correct?

Correct.

but is it also the same company cutting the molds?

I don't think so. Trumpeter cut their own tools. Kinetic kit tools were cut by the workshop that also cut G.W.H. MiG-29 kits.

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Having some competition is always a good thing for the consumer. Though, the Kinetic kit besides probably reaching first to the market, also has a pretty competitive price which will be hard for Trumpeter to match with their recent pricing. They are mentioning some new tech being used on this kit, so I'll wait to see what they have in mind before I make my choice.

Edited by ijozic
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I am not exactly filled with confidence that they will be able to make an accurate Su-33 when they can't even spell Su-33 correctly...

This seem to be some kind of new Trumpeter/HB marketing shtick anyway. Competitor announces something (Kinetic in this case) then they do a "counter-announcement" full of chest pumping and marketing buzzwords. I know for a fact that a lot of work has been done by the previous team that worked on the Aviation Art Su-33 (now Kinetic's) down to correcting the triangle in front of IRST being corrected from being equilateral triangle (all sides alike) to a scalene triangle (no sides are alike).

Has Trumpeter/HB ever shown an attention to detail and accuracy anywhere near this? Nope. And their Su-33 in 1/72 is ok but not completely accurate which should tell something about the upcoming 1/48 kit.

Another funny thing re-Trump/HB recent marketing shtick; They announced theirs F-106 in 72 55min before MENG. :D MENG had a semi private event where they announced their kit and there was lag between the announcement and the event and them announcing it on the web. Clearly someone in audience texted Trumpeter while being at the event and they scrambled to announce theirs F-106. :D

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You're most probably right regarding the accuracy, but I see no harm in waiting for previews and close ups of both kits.

I've never bought a Kinetic kit yet because their soft detail and fit issues on those kits I considered (like e.g. the Mirage 2000 series) seemed unacceptable compared to standards set by the competition (granted, the Su-33 is not their design so should be considerably better).

As regards to the marketing, the Trumpeter is pretty offensive lately countering the recent kits of their competition, but they had to have had those already in the works for some time anyway.

Edited by ijozic
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Yes, i completely welcome any competition and wish them all the luck. All i am saying is that Trumpeter has yet to prove the words they are using in this announcement are true for any of their previous kits (their armor quality both in terms of detail and accuracy seems to be much better than aircraft to be fair) while Aviation Art design and molding has already proven what Trumpeter claims to achieve.

Of course we haven't seen anything from Trumpeter's Su-33 kit yet but beating the AA/Kinetic kit will be very difficult and Trumpeters track record doesn't give confidence they will. If they will then the better; consumers will have a choice between a superb kit and superb+ kit. :)

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i highly doubt they'll be able to offer something better than what Kinetic will.

for me, the only way to back their statement is that they'll use someone else's tooling based on someone else's research...

They, like AMK, own their own factory so tooling is in house. As for research, you give bring the horse to water but you can't make it drink. Excellent research has been offered and the team assigned to the project hasn't done as much as others with the exact same material.

Clearly someone in audience texted Trumpeter while being at the event and they scrambled to announce theirs F-106.

Corporate espionage is alive and well. However, I find it strange that (on the armor side) Trumpeter has not 'responded' to Hong Models' and Meng's ZSU-23-4 Shilka announcements. I am expecting it though!

I've never bought a Kinetic kit yet because their soft detail and fit issues on those kits I considered (like e.g. the Mirage 2000 series) seemed unacceptable compared to standards set by the competition (granted, the Su-33 is not their design so should be considerably better).

From the kits I have had in my hands, I would get that impression as well but it seems their later kits are far better as Raymond has explained they have tooling and taken a new approach to their kits.

Regards,

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However, I find it strange that (on the armor side) Trumpeter has not 'responded' to Hong Models' and Meng's ZSU-23-4 Shilka announcements. I am expecting it though!

They probably would if they had that kit in development already; given the lack of a counter-announcement, I somehow doubt they will offer it in near future (unless Meng and Hong kits sell really well). I hope they release SA-9 and SA-13 kits based on their BRDM-2 and the upcoming MT-LB chassis'.

Edited by ijozic
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All i am saying is that Trumpeter has yet to prove the words they are using in this announcement are true for any of their previous kits (their armor quality both in terms of detail and accuracy seems to be much better than aircraft to be fair) while Aviation Art design and molding has already proven what Trumpeter claims to achieve.

Did they announce some "new tech" as being used previously when they announced some previous kits? It might as well be just a cheap marketing ploy, we'll see.

Regarding the AA/Kinetic kit, apart from CAD shots, I haven't really seen much of the actual kit yet, just those few relatively distant shots from Telford so perhaps I'm a bit more neutral as I don't know what to expect in practice, unlike for example you, if you were deeply involved in the design.

Of course we haven't seen anything from Trumpeter's Su-33 kit yet but beating the AA/Kinetic kit will be very difficult and Trumpeters track record doesn't give confidence they will. If they will then the better; consumers will have a choice between a superb kit and superb+ kit. :)

I personally doubt it will be superb accuracy wise, but I'm hoping for some extra detailing or some new molding approach in some areas like cockpit, exhausts, wheel wells. Who knows, perhaps they took some of the criticism of the 1/48 Su-27UB kit test shots to heart. Given the serious competition more seriously entering into their previously (mostly) unopposed product segment of Soviet kits (like e.g. Meng, AMK, GWH, now Kinetic), they probably can't afford not to take it seriously.

Edited by ijozic
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The sprue shots of Aviation Art kit has been out for 1.5 years now;

https://www.facebook.com/Aviation-Art-Model-Kits-631889120233691/?fref=nf

Since Kinetic took over the molds they possibly did some modifications if they payed any attention to AA team and Chris (that is under question...) but it should be largely the same.

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Since Kinetic took over the molds they possibly did some modifications if they payed any attention to AA team and Chris (that is under question...) but it should be largely the same.

Ah, sorry, I misunderstood that the molds have been newly remade by the same company used by AMK.

Those old test shots look nice (apart from some flash and apparently some molding errors, like e.g. on the main gear struts), but they're certainly not beyond what Trumpeter is capable of (i.e. I'm not blown away by details as e.g. with the recent AMK's or even GWH kits).

Edited by ijozic
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Berkut, what do you think needed to be corrected or modified in the original tooling?

All i know is that there was a number of changes that was supposed to happen before the internal disagreements in AA. What those changes were exactly, i don't know.

Ah, sorry, I misunderstood that the molds have been newly remade by the same company used by AMK.

Those old test shots look nice (apart from some flash and apparently some molding errors, like e.g. on the main gear struts), but they're certainly not beyond what Trumpeter is capable of (i.e. I'm not blown away by details as e.g. with the recent AMK's or even GWH kits).

? AMK has nothing to do with either Trumpeter or Aviation Art. They have their own tooling and engineers (like Sio) whereas AA kit was designed by AA but tooled by same people that did the GWH MiG-29. And i disagree; beyond the molding errors which are common with early testshots the detail level was very high, well up to GWH MiG-29 standard and higher. It was tooled by same people afterall and CAD detail level wasn't exactly lacking either.

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