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Japan considers the Eurofighter

raptor22

By raptor22,
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Murph

Murph

Posted
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As far I can see Murph nothing has been sacrificed in the F-22 for it's role. . .it's clearly streets ahead of everything else out there in it's intended role. I guess you could argue that numbers have been sacrificed, but that's about it surely?

Drewe,

The L.O. requirement for internal weapons bays take up space that could be devoted to avionics, fuel, or simply eliminated making the aircraft smaller. They also limit the size and number of weapons that can be carried. That becomes more evident in the air to ground role. All that's in addition to the extra dollar cost of the capability, which means fewer aircraft produced.

Regards,

Murph

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Julien (UK)

Julien (UK)

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Hey good thread this one, I hope it does not go down hill.

As a Brit I support the Eurofighter Typhoon but seriously think the Japanese are just testing the water at the moment as they really do want the F-22. Would make sense for them if they can do a deal with the US over servicing / support etc if the US are going to base some in Japan. No way I can ever see them being given access to the technology to make them though.

I fthe US are unwilling to to let them have this technology it might go the same for the F-35, look at the problems we in the UK have had and we are supposed to be a "partner". Cant see the Japanese wanting the F-35 after all they have the F-2 and like has already been said here they spent big $$$ (noy Yen sign!) so I think they want the monies worth.

Would be Good if they did go for the eurofighter, would keep a lot of guys here in work.

Must agree with some of the guys here that the Eurofighter might seem as over the top for Austria, would make more sense for them to take the smaller Grippen and work with their neighbours on a service/support deal. I can see a lot more European Operators of the F-16 going for the Grippen as I would see this as an obvious replacement in terms of capability etc.

Julien

Edited by Julien (UK)
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Julien (UK)

Julien (UK)

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Has Boeing been pimping the F/A-18E/F Super Hornet to Japan, or Dassault with the Rafale?

I am sure that Boeings sales team would take offence at "pimping" :lol:

Probably accuratly descibes what they are doing though :rofl:

Julien

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GreyGhost

GreyGhost

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I am sure that Boeings sales team would take offence at "pimping" :lol:

Probably accuratly descibes what they are doing though :rofl:

Julien

Aren't they all Julien ? :lol:

Gregg

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ChernayaAkula

ChernayaAkula

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It's a shame that Flankers (or MiGs) are probably the last option for Japan.

I think for the same reason that Australia didn't want the Flanker. A logistical nightmare. Even more so if you still operate other "more western" designs, like F-2.

I was under the impression Austria had a strict "no war" policy like Switzerland; hell, I heard a while back they were recently just allowed to have air-to-air missiles, period. Thus, I pretty much got the idea their military was strictly a Japanese-style self-defense force, but I could be mistaken.

You're right, they do have a strict "no war" policy, with their neutrality concept indeed based on Switzerland's. But their peace-keeping forces are allowed to bear arms, unlike those of Japan. Their peace-keeping forces in Iraq had to be protected by Australinas. :rofl:

I'd like to know what kept them from having AAMs on their planes. After all, Germany was allowed to use AAMS, although Sidewinders only.

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Grey Ghost 531

Grey Ghost 531

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Japan has always insisted on building or at least assembling the aircraft they buy, F-15, F-4, F-104... Are they going to insist on that for whatever they buy next? Would Saab let them build Gripens? Would the Russians let them build Su-s? (what's the plural of Su, anyway?) Would the Euros let them build Typhoons?

I expect the US would let them build F-35s, though probably not F-22s.

And for the USAF scrapping their F-35 buy to get more F-22s, that would be a big stab in the face to the Navy and Marines as well as the foreign partners. Not good.

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Paolo Maglio

Paolo Maglio

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I wouldn't be so quick to forget the F-2... Japan has equipped 3 squadrons with them, with enough left in the production line to re-equip 8th Hikotai as well (currently flying F-4EJ Kais). They paid an arm and a leg for those jets, you can bet your sweet watusie they're gonna get their money's worth out of 'em.

The Mitsubishi F-2A is optimized for attack and ati-shipping missions. Its radar was judjed unsuitable for the air defence mission. More F-2 can only be build to convert the 8°Hikotai (as you mentioned) and maybe the Kyodotai (aggressor Sqn). The most of F-2B are used just as "luxury" advance jet trainers with no pylons and just one or two inert missiles at the wing tip.

Tiday JASDF (but it will be renamed shoon since they now have a Defence Minister) badly need a replacement air superiority fighter to raplace the 3 Hikotais still flying the Phantom II.

Unfortunately today in Western world there are only two air superiority fighters: F-22 and Typhoon.

The F-35 will be again a strike optimized airframe, so it will not resolve current Japanese need.

I really hope the USA will accept to sell the F-22 to Japan, should they say no, the Typhoon is the only way to go, and it is still and excellent air superiority fighter.

The major proble that JASDF will face with the Typhoon will be about weapons, I guess it would cost a fortune to adapt Japanese missiles to the Typhoon, but that is true for the F-22 too!!!

Paolo

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tengu

tengu

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Posted (edited)
The Mitsubishi F-2A is optimized for attack and ati-shipping missions. Its radar was judjed unsuitable for the air defence mission. More F-2 can only be build to convert the 8°Hikotai (as you mentioned) and maybe the Kyodotai (aggressor Sqn). The most of F-2B are used just as "luxury" advance jet trainers with no pylons and just one or two inert missiles at the wing tip.

Tiday JASDF (but it will be renamed shoon since they now have a Defence Minister) badly need a replacement air superiority fighter to raplace the 3 Hikotais still flying the Phantom II.

Hi, Paolo.

8SQ was scheduled to become the third and last F-2 unit since the beginning of that bird's programme and its planes are already foreseen in the production run.

I don't feel the AGR will ever convert to the type.

As for the F-2B, the bird replaced the T-2 in the 21SQ as an advanced trainer and is actually part of jet pilots' training syllabus, rather than a 'luxury'. :) :)

And perhaps its radar was judged unsuitable for AD missions (who said that? <_< ), but 3SQ keeps 'alert birds' in Misawa AB and its pilots often train ACM (the first deployment of the AGR this year was to Misawa AB to train with them and their 8SQ fellas flying F-4s)

Regards

Edited by tengu
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Paolo Maglio

Paolo Maglio

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Hi, Paolo.

8SQ was scheduled to become the third and last F-2 unit since the beginning of that bird's programme and its planes are already foreseen in the production run.

I don't feel the AGR will ever convert to the type.

As for the F-2B, the bird replaced the T-2 in the 21SQ as an advanced trainer and is actually part of jet pilots' training syllabus, rather than a 'luxury'. :) :)

And perhaps its radar was judged unsuitable for AD missions (who said that? <_< ), but 3SQ keeps 'alert birds' in Misawa AB and its pilots often train ACM (the first deployment of the AGR this year was to Misawa AB to train with them and their 8SQ fellas flying F-4s)

Regards

Hi Tengu,

I'm happy to ear that 8SQ will convert to the F-2, my count was stopped at only 77 Mitsubishi F-2A/B build so far.

I wrote that the F-2B is a luxury trainer because it is one of the most expensive two seater ever build and a plane with a very powerfull angine to be used just for training (even if advanced). For the same mission USAF use the T-38!

About the shortcomings of the radar of the F-2 I read many articles on Air Force Monthly and Intenational Air Power Journal.

Unfortunately I never had the opportunity to talk to a F-2 driver!

Cheers

Paolo

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hatchet

hatchet

Posted
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I'd like to know what kept them from having AAMs on their planes. After all, Germany was allowed to use AAMS, although Sidewinders only.
Dunno about AAMs, but they are/were not allowed, by their own choice, to have guided anti-tank missiles. BTW, I think the "Sidewinder only" policy for Germany was somewhat, err, cosmetic :)

:cheers:

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ChernayaAkula

ChernayaAkula

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Japan has always insisted on building or at least assembling the aircraft they buy, F-15, F-4, F-104... Are they going to insist on that for whatever they buy next? Would Saab let them build Gripens? Would the Russians let them build Su-s? (what's the plural of Su, anyway?) Would the Euros let them build Typhoons?

A very interesting point! :cheers:

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hatchet

hatchet

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Japan has always insisted on building or at least assembling the aircraft they buy, F-15, F-4, F-104... Are they going to insist on that for whatever they buy next? Would Saab let them build Gripens? Would the Russians let them build Su-s? (what's the plural of Su, anyway?) Would the Euros let them build Typhoons?
If memory serves (big if :) )South Africa is building (or assembling) their Gripens and India & China are doing/going to do their Sukhois. I think EADS could be pusuaded to let them build Tiffys on their own.

One does wonder about the Rafale. Does anyone else find it slightly ironic, that France withdrew from the Eurofighter programme because they (among other things) wanted a more "exportable" aircraft?

:cheers:

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ChernayaAkula

ChernayaAkula

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Does anyone else find it slightly ironic, that France withdrew from the Eurofighter programme because they (among other things) wanted a more "exportable" aircraft?

Yeah, ironic indeed. It's a shame the Rafale hasn't been exported yet. Even more so considering all previous Mirage fighter designs were major sellers export-wise.

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Dmanton300

Dmanton300

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BTW, I think the "Sidewinder only" policy for Germany was somewhat, err, cosmetic ;)

:thumbsup:

It certainly wasn't cosmetic. The F-4F Phantom in it's original form had no CWI on it's APQ-120 radar. It was physically incapable of providing a homing beam for a Sparrow missile. You could technically fit the F-4F with Sparrows, as the bays were there, but you could do nothing with them. F-104G had no CWI on it's NASAAR radar either, this only came along with the NASAAR R21-G in the Italian and Turkish F-104S which could use Sparrow.

Thus, prior to the introduction of the F-4F ICE with APG-65 and AIM-120 in the early 90's the Luftwaffe had no air to air capability other than Sidewinder.

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