Bigasshammm Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 Every year we go up the Friday before the show to watch practice and hope something is late arriving. Usually you get to see things fly that you normally wouldn't. I.E. Static displays and such. Anyway after not having an air show last year due to sequestration they billed this show as the biggest yet. Well it's pathetic. The Blue Angels are there sure but that ends the military's participation. No static displays, no other demo teams, nothing. The only thing we saw fly today was round after round of aerobatic prop planes. Never have enjoyed those at an air show. They do have the biplane/jet engined plane which is cool. They also have a privately owned Sea Harrier which is also cool. Otherwise there's an L39, T-51s which look and sound stupid and depressing, and that's about it. When they brought out the RC airplanes to fly it was time to go. Never did make it to see the Blues fly :(. Had to leave to make sure we'd be home in time to get daughter from school. Anyway rant over. Just very disappointed in the whole thing. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Vince Maddux Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 You know how it goes, all the good stuff happens after you leave. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sledge Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 Sounds like little old TraverseCity here in nw lower michigan had a better show than big Cleveland! Raptor demo, and blues all for free. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ST0RM Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 Sadly, the days of a high level of military aerial demonstrations are a thing of the past within the US. Air shows continue, but with civilian prop acts, or the rarer jet team. The Blues and Tbirds will continue on, but IMO, aren't as dynamic as the single jet demo teams. I'm on this years org board for the upcoming Altus AFB Open House, and we've had a heck of a time getting what we lined up. We lost the F-16/P-47/51 Heritage demo due to unknown reasons. In fact, the F-16 was pulled for the remaining season due to pilot unavailibility. Who knows what the means. As filler, we've got Randy in his MiG-17 and Greg in his T-33. Additionally we booked the Cold War Museum's Mi-24 Hind demo out of Texas. The rest will be made up of warbirds, Tbirds and aerobatic acts. No fast jet demo teams to be had. Even the Navy demo Hornets are grounded save for a single show in Oceana. Statics too were very difficult. I tried using connections to get several jets to attend. More than a few emails between friends. Units don't have money or time anymore. It finally took Wing Commander to Wing Commander talks to get stuff released. But it is stacked with a great variety. Without getting too political, this is the result of being over extended across the globe and too far into programs that you'd have been axed years ago. If I had my way, we would do it much like the UK. A few major shows that charged admission to help defray the cost of the performers and statics. But Joe taxpayer would pitch a fit about having to pay. Enjoy them while you've got them. Jeff Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nerdling Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 That sucks. Guess you guys need to start coming out here to Oregon to see the Airshow of the Cascades. Lots of awesome old warbirds. Nothing new but tons of stuff from WWII. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GLMFAA1 Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 Wow maybe Ytown's thunder over the valley might be bigger than Cleveland. Glad I went this year, who knows what will be around in 5 years when the Tbirds might be back to Ytown greg Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Johnopfor Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 Every year we go up the Friday before the show to watch practice and hope something is late arriving. Usually you get to see things fly that you normally wouldn't. I.E. Static displays and such. Anyway after not having an air show last year due to sequestration they billed this show as the biggest yet. Well it's pathetic. The Blue Angels are there sure but that ends the military's participation. No static displays, no other demo teams, nothing. The only thing we saw fly today was round after round of aerobatic prop planes. Never have enjoyed those at an air show. They do have the biplane/jet engined plane which is cool. They also have a privately owned Sea Harrier which is also cool. Otherwise there's an L39, T-51s which look and sound stupid and depressing, and that's about it. When they brought out the RC airplanes to fly it was time to go. Never did make it to see the Blues fly :(/>. Had to leave to make sure we'd be home in time to get daughter from school. Anyway rant over. Just very disappointed in the whole thing. I know how you feel, I felt the same way about this year's Offutt AFB airshow. The best part was the F-22 flight demonstration, and there seems to be an ever-shrinking number of static displays. The only Navy representation was the Blues, not even a single Hornet/Super Hornet..... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Camus272 Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 (edited) Yeah, things are pretty disappointing, but if you at least get to see the Blue Angels that's a good thing. Last week they were in Duluth, MN which got covered in fog for the weekend. Nothing flew from Thursday until 3:45 on Sunday. The worst part was the F-22 demo was there - Taboo took it up at 3:30 on Sunday and started hitting clouds at 300 feet, so he wasn't allowed to do anything aerobatic (not even open the bays) and just flew a few passes. The only military static was one local F-16. Two F-15Es came in, but they were not allowed to be put on display so they parked way down at the end of the hot ramp. It's disappointing when even the unit at the base (148th FW) won't do fly-overs anymore. I have a feeling things will get better, it looks like the F-18 demo will be coming back and word is that the F-16 demo will also come back next year and there might be a F-35 heritage flight. The big need seems to be loosening restrictions on static displays. When there isn't much to look at, its a pain to wait through two days of fog and rain to see something move. But, it does seems like the days of a jet team, a Navy demo, two Air Force demos, and two fly-overs are gone. There's no way to get that even at Aviation Nation anymore. I really miss the 2009-11 shows, and I know things were even better in the early 2000s. No one even discusses airshows on sites like Fencecheck anymore, it really seems like a dying hobby. Brian Edited August 30, 2014 by Camus272 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bigasshammm Posted August 30, 2014 Author Share Posted August 30, 2014 There goes recruiting. What kid is going to wanto join the Air Force or Navy if they have no idea what they do? That's the point of air shows really. Plus there's so many ANG units around northeast Ohio why not showcase them? A Chinook flys over my house once a week. Was there one at the Cleveland air show? No. It's piss poor politicking is what it is. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
phasephantomphixer Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 And are the Heritage F-4 flights over now? On the West side, was also disappointed with Olympia, WA show compared to previous years. Seemed everyone there was in a lull, it was "in the air". They had based the show on the introduction of their newly restored F4U Corsair, which was nice, and FIFI which I had not seen in years. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cajun21 Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 Plus there's so many ANG units around northeast Ohio why not showcase them? A Chinook flys over my house once a week. Was there one at the Cleveland air show? No. Bugasshammm, I know the 180th out of Toledo was requested but couldn't comply for several reasons; The unit won't "write off" the field length, 6600 ft - the F-16 requires 8000 ft min without aresting gear, 2 a/c sit alert with 2 back-ups and several more a/c currently deployed. A lot have units have been on multiple deployments and state budgets are close to depletion for the year, also a lot of the crews are just flat tired. I do agree that this years show was lacking but I did see a C-130 (Mansfield bird I believe) Uniteds' B-737 and NASA's "Hoover" S-3. I am hoping for a better show next year. Itch Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bigasshammm Posted September 2, 2014 Author Share Posted September 2, 2014 I didn't think the Air Force landed any fighters at Burke Lakefront since I think it was a thunderbird that ingested a bird and crashed into the water there. Whenever they've had F-15 demos or when the a thunderbirds are there they always land at Cleveland Hopkins and fly in from there to do the show. Yes let's hope it's much better next year but somehow I doubt it sadly. They used to have Indycar races at that airport too and now those have gone away as well. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cajun21 Posted September 3, 2014 Share Posted September 3, 2014 I didn't think the Air Force landed any fighters at Burke Lakefront since I think it was a thunderbird that ingested a bird and crashed into the water there. Whenever they've had F-15 demos or when the a thunderbirds are there they always land at Cleveland Hopkins and fly in from there to do the show. Yes that was in Sept of '81 when LTC D.L. Smith crashed, the T-38 sucked about a half a dozen seagulls down the starboard engine and when it exploded it took the port engine with it. I knew DL from the Vietnam days. I brought a A-7D in to Cleveland to meet my other friend COL Dan Lyons who flew up in a OV-10, he was a FAC guy (also the lead instructor at Foward Air Controls School (aka FAC U) and he drafted me for the preliminary AIB after he took control of the airfield. Not a fun time. About a 2 years after the accident is when the AF started cracking down on runway lengths and forbad local commanders from writing off shorter field lengths that didn't have arresting gear in place. You are also correct that the T'birds stage out NASA Glenn now as they can provide security for the jets 24/7 and Cleveland Hopkins Airport has 12,000 + useable feet of concrete. Anyway PM sometime and we can discuss further if you wish. Itch Quote Link to post Share on other sites
strikeeagle801 Posted September 4, 2014 Share Posted September 4, 2014 And are the Heritage F-4 flights over now? On the West side, was also disappointed with Olympia, WA show compared to previous years. Seemed everyone there was in a lull, it was "in the air". They had based the show on the introduction of their newly restored F4U Corsair, which was nice, and FIFI which I had not seen in years. Yeah, I think that is probably the last year I'll go to Olympia. No Military support at all, crappy weather, and it seemed like there just was not enough "action" this year. I was surprised we only got a few flat passes out of the Corsair...As you said, that was supposed to be the highlight of the whole show. Plus, it was disappointing not having Fifi fly...Nobody's fault there though. Aaron Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gary1701 Posted September 4, 2014 Share Posted September 4, 2014 (edited) Gents, Interesting thread this about US shows, especially Jeff's comments about using the UK model for shows in the US. The ironic thing is many in the UK would prefer if we modelled ourselves on the US format - in particular the free admission that seems to be the norm in the US. I remember being shocked at the one show that I have attended in the US (Andrews, '96) when I found out that admission was free. To us having a free show would be as much as a surprise as it appears that an admission charge would be to US shows on military bases (do shows not on active military bases charge?). I don't think that our shows are supported that much better by the military. As with the US, we're over-stretched and the RAF nowadays only have the Red Arrows, the memorial flight and the Typhoon solo as regular participants at airshows. We do I suppose have the advantage that only a couple of major shows are organised by the military, the rest of the UK airshow being purely commercial. The small distances involved is also a help. I was surprised when two Spangdahlem based USAF F-16's came into Mildenhall from Germany last week, stayed the weekend to perform a single flyby at a sporting event (American football match?) at Dublin of all places! Considering the current financial situation I thought that was a bit extravagant. If they really had to have a couple of USAF fast jets do a flyby as a opening act, there's a quite a few F-15s just a few miles from Mildenhall at a place called Lakenheath... Gary Edited September 4, 2014 by gary1701 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ALF18 Posted September 4, 2014 Share Posted September 4, 2014 One thing working against us in North America is geography (long distances) and sparse population compared to Europe. It is not unreasonable to ask folks from all over Southern England to drive/ride trains/bike/walk to Farnborough for a spectacular show; it is out of the question to hold a show in Cold Lake Alberta and expect folks to drive 7, 8, or more hours from population centres like Calagary to see it. As a former military pilot, I used to love going to airshows, especially for static displays. Let me think: I'm single, living in nowhere-ville Canada, and you ask me if I want to spend a weekend partying, including chatting up pretty women on the tarmac all afternoon, at a USAF base near a major city someplace warm and sunny? The answer is quite obvious. What has changed since then is the ability of any military forces to justify such jaunts all over the continent, given shrinking budgets and more transparency (openness) in disclosing where military dollars are spent. Europe is smaller, more densely populated, and home to many active air forces. An unfortunate reality of life in the 21st century... ALF Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bigasshammm Posted September 4, 2014 Author Share Posted September 4, 2014 Only air shows on military bases are free. Shows like Cleveland's or Thunder Over Michigan cost money and usually a rather significant amount. I think it was something like 23$ for an adult to get into Cleveland his year and then bake on the Tarmac looking at nothing since there were basically no static displays. I'll be surprised if Cleveland air show is still around in 5 years Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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