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Matt Walker

Mirage 2000 colors?

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I've asked Rene from Mr Paint if they would make the correct colors for the Mirage 2000. He said sure, he would happily do that, as long as he can get correct FS, BS or RAL codes for the shades involved. Would anyone have that info??

 

I'm also going to ask him to do Australian A-4 Skyhawk colors, but have the BS codes for those.

 

Cheers,

Matthew

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Hi Matt,

up to now Xtracolor made the two Mirage colors, they should be quite correct. X395, X396

Or ask Sylvain from syhart decals, he is from France and MUST know the color numbers.

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It's a french standard. Neither FS, RAL or BS.

AFAIK Celomer 1620 for the light grey and Celomer 1625 for the blue grey.

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Celomer paints as noted above. The lighter of the two grays is a close approximation of FS36300, darker is near FS36176.  Keep in mind these colors are *very* often misrepresented in print or digital reproduction as more blue shades than the actual colors.

 

Additional tidbit: other than the earliest production birds with semigloss black radomes, all 2000Cs have nose cones that are gray fiberglass, very close match to FS36375.

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Trying to replicate the exact color in scale is a no win scenario. Approximate colors like Quixote suggests is more than adequate. For example: if you were to spray 36375 or 36118 from the major hobby paint manufacturers you would no doubt have different colors from each. I have used the xtracolor French colors and they are excellent. I just wish they had those in the xtracrylic product line because I cannot order them (enamel) from Hannant's any longer.

Edited by Mr Matt Foley

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"Celomer" is not a color standard, it is a an aviation coating (=paint) brand. I am not sure why French modelers insist on throwing the name around instead of using the correct French standard (AFNOR) name for the colors. It is almost like using a Testors paint code for a Federal Standard color that already has a well-defined name.

 

The colors are, AFAIK:

AFNOR A 620 Gris/bleu-vert moyen fonce

AFNOR A 625 Gris/bleu moyen clair

 

The casually used "Celomer 1620" is just a commercial paint code that matches AFNOR A620, and 1625 matches A 625. 

The official AFNOR color fan is somewhat hard and kind of expensive - I wish I had one, so I could compare the colors to the FS595 and RAL fans.

 

Edited by KursadA

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15 hours ago, Quixote74 said:

Celomer paints as noted above. The lighter of the two grays is a close approximation of FS36300, darker is near FS36176.  Keep in mind these colors are *very* often misrepresented in print or digital reproduction as more blue shades than the actual colors.

 

Additional tidbit: other than the earliest production birds with semigloss black radomes, all 2000Cs have nose cones that are gray fiberglass, very close match to FS36375.

Not sure about your color approximations.  If the nose cone is 36375, then the lighter gray should be even lighter than 36375 as opposed to the darker 36300 as stated.  The darker gray is not even close to MOD Eagle Gray 36176:

 

Dassault_Mirage_2000C.jpg

 

To my eyes, the nose cone is FS36231 Dark Gull Gray, the lighter gray is FS36375 Light Ghost Gray, and the darker gray is FS35164 Intermediate Blue.

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45 minutes ago, RichardL said:

Not sure about your color approximations.  If the nose cone is 36375, then the lighter gray should be even lighter than 36375 as opposed to the darker 36300 as stated.  The darker gray is not even close to MOD Eagle Gray 36176:

 

Dassault_Mirage_2000C.jpg

 

To my eyes, the nose cone is FS36231 Dark Gull Gray, the lighter gray is FS36375 Light Ghost Gray, and the darker gray is FS35164 Intermediate Blue.

 

Yeah but, lighting, and computer monitors play tricks on us when trying to color match online, it is next to impossible. But, that being said, I do agree with your assessment of Intermediate Blue for the dark blue/gray of the Mirage. Possibly a touch lighter and you would have the color close to Xtracolor's Mirage (X396)

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Lightning and computer monitors aside, here is a picture that shows both a Mirage 2000c flying with an F-18C for comparison:

 

Mirage2000_and_F-18C.jpg

 

We all know that the lower color on the Hornet and its aft nose cone is 36375 light ghost gray.  Note the color of the radome on the Mirage.  It is darker and thus leads me to 36231 and not 36375 as suggested.  Also, the lighter gray on the Mirage is slightly lighter than the lighter gray on the Hornet.

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6 minutes ago, RichardL said:

Lightning and computer monitors aside, here is a picture that shows both a Mirage 2000c flying with an F-18C for comparison:

 

Mirage2000_and_F-18C.jpg

 

We all know that the lower color on the Hornet and its aft nose cone is 36375 light ghost gray.  Note the color of the radome on the Mirage.  It is darker and thus leads me to 36231 and not 36375 as suggested.  Also, the lighter gray on the Mirage is slightly lighter than the lighter gray on the Hornet.

 

I agree with you Richard, but we also have to consider the reality that US Naval Aircraft are pretty filthy looking birds.

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And here is a pic showing both the Mirage 2000 and the F-15 Mod Eagle in the same shot:

 

Mirage2000-F15.jpg

 

The darker gray on the Mirage 2000 is not even close to the darker gray on the F-15, which is FS 36176.

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I found an official-looking document describing French military colors here:

 

http://www.acqpa.com/iso_album/normdef_0001_couleurs_de_ladefense_nationale.pdf

 

Page 127 and 128 have the exact CIELAB (a standardized method to describe a color) parameters for the two colors (AFNOR A 620 and AFNOR A 625). Presumably this should be all that a paint manufacturer needs to match the color. There are apps and Web sites that allow you to find the Pantone or FS approximation for a given set of CIELAB values. Short of actually getting an AFNOR color fan (there is a scanned one here), this may be the best way to find a match and put an end to this discussion.

 

Edited by KursadA

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I should've known better than to expect people to read what I said about digital reproductions. Not like anyone has ever been next to the actual aircraft in question with a set of FS595 cards or anything.... :rolleyes:

 

I should've clarified that the FS36375 nosecones are **delivered** in that color - much like the well-established variations in, for example, the F-16's nose cone, they show varying degrees of weathering and can be darker (rarely if ever lighter) than the color "as delivered."

 

As Mr. Foley notes, lighting and contrast also plays havoc with perception of light and dark - especially where "neutral" shades like gray are concerned. Don't believe me? Google the "checker shadow illusion." Or more famously, "the dress."

 

Or you can keep on insisting that what you "know" is right from looking at online photos and (badly) matching what you think you see.

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Hi All,

 

Been fighting this fight for a lot of years now (it has put my 72nd scale Heller kit on hold for lack of the correct colors!).  Just wish my French cousins would put a company together that made geniune French colors across the board.  Allez, mes amis, where is your pride?

 

WARDOG

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3 hours ago, KursadA said:

I found an official-looking document describing French military colors here:

 

http://www.acqpa.com/iso_album/normdef_0001_couleurs_de_ladefense_nationale.pdf

 

Page 127 and 128 have the exact CIELAB (a standardized method to describe a color) parameters for the two colors (AFNOR A 620 and AFNOR A 625). Presumably this should be all that a paint manufacturer needs to match the color. There are apps and Web sites that allow you to find the Pantone or FS approximation for a given set of CIELAB values. Short of actually getting an AFNOR color fan (there is a scanned one here), this may be the best way to find a match and put an end to this discussion.

 

 

This is indeed THE reference document concerning French military colors.

And useful also for details painting, cockpit and else.

but you really have to be a professionnal to fully understand it.

And then, it's a basis for paint makers, with a margin for errors.

But anyway, look at a Mirage 2000 at two different hours of a given day, and you'll find many differences In the colors you  perceive.

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Hello

 

Yes, Kursuda gave the right way if you want to compare with something measurable.

Plugging the CieLab numbers in a converter as https://www.e-paint.co.uk/Convert_lab.asp, we get:

 

-A620: slightly different from FS 36152, closer to British Standard BS381 677

-A625: very close to RAL effect 810-1, close RAL classic 7040 and slightly different from FS36300, FS36375, 26295

 

We also should do another comparison with other paint converter...

 

 

Antoine is right too... color changes a bit depending on the light reflecting on them.

All the people have a different perception of colors too...

 

I usually do my own mixes, basing on several pictures.

 

Cheers

 

Romain

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Does anybody know what AFNOR colour is applied to the Rafale?

 

Deke

Edited by Deke

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2 hours ago, Deke said:

Does anybody know what AFNOR colour is applied to the Rafale?

 

Deke

 

Are they not the same as the Rafale A? If so that would match up very close to FS36231 lighten'd just a tad.

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On ‎5‎/‎4‎/‎2018 at 8:47 PM, Mr Matt Foley said:

 

Are they not the same as the Rafale A? If so that would match up very close to FS36231 lighten'd just a tad.

 

Matt,

  Thanks, I agree that FS 36231 is a reasonable match, what I was looking for is the official French AFNOR designation for the colour, so I know what the starting point is.

 

Deke

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On 1/11/2017 at 11:59 AM, falcon91352 said:

Hataka brings a Brazilian Air Force set including Mirage 2000 colors

 

Hataka just uses Light Ghost Gray and Intermediate Blue in the Mirage 2000 paint set:

  • HTK-A027 Intermediate Blue FS35164, the best match for French Gris-Bleu Fonce (Celomer 1620) used on Brazilian AF Mirage 2000B/C (F-2000B/C)
  • HTK-A037 Light Ghost Grey FS36375, the best match for French Gris-Bleu Clair (Celomer 1625) used on Brazilian AF Mirage 2000B/C (F-2000B/C)

 

On the other hand, AKAN 46750 French Air Force Mirage 2000:

 

s636053668622468514_p129_i1_w612.png

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On 1/10/2017 at 7:02 PM, Glynn Jacobs said:

Been fighting this fight for a lot of years now (it has put my 72nd scale Heller kit on hold for lack of the correct colors!).  Just wish my French cousins would put a company together that made geniune French colors across the board.  Allez, mes amis, where is your pride?

 

AKAN now produces Mirage 2000 colors in both acrylics and lacquers.  See post above.

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1 hour ago, RichardL said:

 

AKAN now produces Mirage 2000 colors in both acrylics and lacquers.  See post above.

 

Don't mess with the Water Based Acrylics! You'll regret it. Buy the Lacquer paints, they have great adhesion in comparison. Speaking from experience guys.

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