chuck540z3 Posted December 6, 2009 Share Posted December 6, 2009 Caption says it all. Frickin' Wow! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Huey Gunner Posted December 7, 2009 Share Posted December 7, 2009 Everything he builds makes the cover of a magazine and usually a first place trophy from whatever contests he enters. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jester292 Posted December 7, 2009 Share Posted December 7, 2009 True, but there is an arguement to be had about what looks good vs. what is realistic. Aaron Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JasonB Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 Just a guess, but is the F-15 that took 2nd at the Nats, and all the controversy that went along with it? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Zactoman Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 I wish I had the magazine! That F-15 would be John Vojtech's incredible build (be sure to click the in-progress link as well) And if you haven't already seen them, check out his other builds in his gallery. :) True, but there is an arguement to be had about what looks good vs. what is realistic.Aaron Seriously? :blink: Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JasonB Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 (edited) Seriously? :) I think it comes down to how you like your panel lines. While I think that is an awesome build to the highest quality, beyond anything I could ever hope to do, having every panel line, hinge line, etc...shaded in that style isn't my favorite. Thats probably the "looks good" to "looks real" argument. Edited December 8, 2009 by JasonB Quote Link to post Share on other sites
thegoodsgt Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 Whether you like Jon's style, that F-15 was a work of art and engineering! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
waylandcool Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 Just a guess, but is the F-15 that took 2nd at the Nats, and all the controversy that went along with it? Okay I'll bite, what was the controversy at the Nats??? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Zactoman Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 (edited) Okay I'll bite, what was the controversy at the Nats???The controvery was why it took a second place rather than first.Apparently there was a seam or ejector pin mark somewhere down inside one of the intakes that hadn't been sanded away. I missed that detail but spent a good 15 minutes drooling over the rest of the model... :) Edited December 8, 2009 by Zactoman Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JasonB Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 The controvery was why it took a second place rather than first.Apparently there was a seam or ejector pin mark somewhere down inside one of the intakes that hadn't been sanded away. I missed that detail but spent a good 15 minutes drooling over the rest of the model... :) Mr. Zacto, you were blinded by the sizzle. That ejector pin mark, tsk, tsk, tsk... (insert emoticon for irony/sarcasm here) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MoFo Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 It had more eye candy, but construction flaws. Another model looked less impressive, but lacked construction flaws. IPMS judging is based on basic construction - the model with the fewest faults wins - so the F-15 lost. Many people were wowed by the visual appeal of the kit, however, and were upset that it didn't win. (including Jon, who apparently lost it at the judges) Which then led to a rehashing of various old IPMS judging arguments - that it promotes 'dumbing down' and building easy kits, that it punishes degree of difficulty, that it ignores artistic merit, various rants against accuracy, weathering, do we still need OOB, etc. etc. ad nauseum. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Zactoman Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 It had more eye candy, but construction flaws.Another model looked less impressive, but lacked construction flaws. No model is perfect including the winner.It so happened that I did notice flaws on the winner while not even trying to find any but didn't notice any on the F-15. Had I put on my judges hat and tried to rip them apart I probably would have found more flaws on both and weighed the flaws to decide who the worst modeler was. Fortunatley I didn't bring my hat and know not to in the future... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Admiral T. Jurisdiction Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 ... Many people were wowed by the visual appeal of the kit, however, and were upset that it didn't win. (including Jon, who apparently lost it at the judges) Which then led to a rehashing of various old IPMS judging arguments - that it promotes 'dumbing down' and building easy kits, that it punishes degree of difficulty, that it ignores artistic merit, various rants against accuracy, weathering, do we still need OOB, etc. etc. ad nauseum. Ouch! I think this is part of the reason why I stopped participating in model "contests" back in the 90s; some people used to throw (rather public) fits if they didn't win, which frankly, always left me with a feeling of disgust. Does it not stand to reason that if one voluntarily submits a model to be judged, that this very act acknowledges and defers to the opinion of whoever is judging? Regardless, while the panel shading isn't my particular cup of tea, I think it's still a fantastic build, and well worthy of praise. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Wayne S Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 (edited) Haven't got the mag, Is this the the guy who built the 1/32 Tamiya and made a video of it? Edited December 8, 2009 by Wayne S Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rraab Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 Thanks for the links, Zacto' ...seriously ;) ! This kind of work makes me smile (and inspires me to new heights of 'modeling debauchery' ;) ). As far as contests/shows go, it's a good way to meet some really cool people and see their take on things in a relatively short amount of time...and as far as IPMS rules,* KISS* - Keep It Simple, Stupid-build it straight, but never 'expect' to win. I can't see enough of builds like this one "win or lose"! $.02 Rraab Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JasonB Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 (edited) Ouch! I think this is part of the reason why I stopped participating in model "contests" back in the 90s; some people used to throw (rather public) fits if they didn't win, which frankly, always left me with a feeling of disgust. Does it not stand to reason that if one voluntarily submits a model to be judged, that this very act acknowledges and defers to the opinion of whoever is judging?Regardless, while the panel shading isn't my particular cup of tea, I think it's still a fantastic build, and well worthy of praise. Actually thats a very good point, but I do have to point out one thing. By the rules,there's very little "judging" involved IMHO. Its checking for build flaws. The opinions of the judges outside of finding a mis-aligned landing gear, ejector mark or unfilled seam, are basically not wanted. As a matter of fact, as it was pointed out on HS concerning this very subject, the winning model could have been painted a blazing shade of pink and that would/should not have been considered a factor, as build quality is the primary criteria. Because of that, it would have still won, because it was a less flawed build than this F-15. Determining proper color WOULD be a matter of the judges opinion, and as has been hashed out before, not something they want to get into. Edited December 8, 2009 by JasonB Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Wayne S Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 (edited) It had more eye candy, but construction flaws.Another model looked less impressive, but lacked construction flaws. IPMS judging is based on basic construction - the model with the fewest faults wins - so the F-15 lost. Many people were wowed by the visual appeal of the kit, however, and were upset that it didn't win. (including Jon, who apparently lost it at the judges) Which then led to a rehashing of various old IPMS judging arguments - that it promotes 'dumbing down' and building easy kits, that it punishes degree of difficulty, that it ignores artistic merit, various rants against accuracy, weathering, do we still need OOB, etc. etc. ad nauseum. I hear what people mean. Thats why to a degree it is better to build with less parts count then it is to go crazy. Put 5000 parts into something, thats 5000 more things that can go wrong. I can't see him being upset about it tho. No one told him to go crazy. If your going to do that kind of build for your self, for a comp you should still build for self gratification then. Rules are rules and you work to rules in any competition. Edited December 8, 2009 by Wayne S Quote Link to post Share on other sites
markiii Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 I admire his previous works(especially that B2) but I have not seen this one in person or in the mag. The only thing I can see from that one pic is the weathering seems a tad overdone, IMO. Mark Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Wayne S Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 I admire his previous works(especially that B2) but I have not seen this one in person or in the mag.The only thing I can see from that one pic is the weathering seems a tad overdone, IMO. Mark Pretty sure this is it. Check the Video out. Haven't got the mag, Is this the the guy who built the 1/32 Tamiya and made a video of it? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Murph Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 (edited) Actually thats a very good point, but I do have to point out one thing. By the rules,there's very little "judging" involved IMHO. Its checking for build flaws. The opinions of the judges outside of finding a mis-aligned landing gear, ejector mark or unfilled seam, are basically not wanted. As a matter of fact, as it was pointed out on HS concerning this very subject, the winning model could have been painted a blazing shade of pink and that would/should not have been considered a factor, as build quality is the primary criteria. Because of that, it would have still won, because it was a less flawed build than this F-15. Determining proper color WOULD be a matter of the judges opinion, and as has been hashed out before, not something they want to get into. Which is just as well, as a quick glance at the in progress photos shows several inaccuracies on the build. Leaving that aside, it's an absolutely incredible job though; that took some amazing skill and patience. Regards, Murph Edited December 8, 2009 by Murph Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cyrus Tan Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 I had the pleasure of seeing John's F-15 in person over in Columbus last summer and all I can say is the model is incredible! ;) On my first pass, I probably spent a good 15 min. looking at the model and I rarely spend that much time looking at any particular model. Through the course of the show, I found myself drifting towards at his masterpiece over and over again. Hell, I even met up Chris aka Zactoman drooling over this thing. :P Like most people, I missed the ejector pin marks inside the intakes too. You would have needed a flashlight to catch them because the lighting in the showroom was terrible. It's unfortunate, those pin marks were not addressed because I think it would have taken 1st and even best aircraft for that matter. Remember, don't blame it on the judges, but rather the IPMS rules. ;) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Waco Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 can't see him being upset about it tho. No one told him to go crazy. If your going to do that kind of build for your self, for a comp you should still build for self gratification then. Actually, it was neither building for himself nor building for the contest. It was a commission build. Which makes getting upset at not winning all the more strange, as I'm sure he still got paid. I've entered almost a dozen models at the 4 Nationals I've been to, with no delusions or aspirations of trying to win. Granted, I don't build like Jon either. However, I just felt that if I was at a model competition, I'd like to be able to show folks my build on the table: "yeah, here's my build." It's fun either way. Take it too seriously, and sweat it that much, and you're sure to be disappointed on some level. This is a hobby, right? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jester292 Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 (edited) The F-15 he made is one awesome looking Eagle, but I have yet to fly a plane or personally see a plane where every panel line is shaded and shadowed or otherwise filled in EVENLY. And I've flown some terribly filthy airplanes. The post I made about "what looks good vs. what is accurate" wasn't meant to take away from the talent this man has. He has many accomplishments and pieces of art. I just personally think that lighter, uneven panel lines go further than darker, more evenly weathered lines. Aaron Edited December 8, 2009 by jester292 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Keith Diamond Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 as someone who never entered a scale model contest, is it really that big of a deal if you win or lose? I'd imagine the honors and accolades are just bonuses to an enjoyable hobby. My impression of NATS, based on what I've read here and elsewhere, is its a good excuse to meet up with people, have fun, learn about new techniques or aftermarket prods, while showing off some models you are particularly proud of. Granted, I'm not a highly skilled modeler, but I'd hope that if I was, just displaying the finished product and the occasional "Oooos" and "Aaahhs" from friends or fellow modelers would be enough for me. I'm not trying to pass judgement here, I really would like someone to explain to me the appeal of earning an award at a scale model show. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Keith Diamond Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 However, I just felt that if I was at a model competition, I'd like to be able to show folks my build on the table: "yeah, here's my build." Bingo. That's what I'm talking about. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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