Is modeling not as popular as it use to be?

[PNW_Modeler]

Two words......

VIDEO GAMES

[GreyGhost]

Two words......

VIDEO GAMES

Video Games are getting to be a cheaper past time too ... :)

Gregg

[Abakan]

Last weekend my extended family was visiting so I took the opportunity to build a kit with my 7 years old nephew.

Did give him a Hobbyboss Me163B for his very first kit ( just putting it together, no painting as he is troubled when it comes to fine motorics ). And while we were at it I did unwrap a Revell 1/48 Bf109G10 for myself ( have not build a kit in a long time and did not want to waste one of my Hasegawa kits *LOL*

Edited April 6, 2010 by Abakan

[DutyCat]

I was in Hobbytown USA the other day and there was a boy in there with his grandparents trying to buy a kit and they were SHOCKED at the prices. Even the Revell and Monogram pricing was well beyond their understanding as their image of models was "cheap and affordable for kids." I talked to the grandfather a little bit. The kid was from a single parent home....struggling Mom with limited income.

Kids are just not getting into this hobby for a variety of reasons, including cost/fun ratio, and the expectation of being entertained constantly by 200 channels of TV, IPODS, cellphones, Facebook, and of course, video games. In addition to all that there is sports and at the very bottom of kid's list of priorities is academics....which is why, except for the techies, we have a bunch of kids running around using technology with NO CLUE how it works.

The thing with video games...I don't care what kind of game it is...even flight sims.....you sit around for hours playing IL-2 or WoW or whatever, working your tail off, and in the end you have nothing to show for it. I'd rather build a model or read a book. If I am tired I'll veg in front of the TV or watch a good movie like everyone else, but if I am actually going to put some effort into something it will be more substantial than a video game. If I want to play a game it will be online chess.

Edited April 6, 2010 by DutyCat

[Fishwelding]

The thing with video games...I don't care what kind of game it is...even flight sims.....you sit around for hours playing IL-2 or WoW or whatever, working your tail off, and in the end you have nothing to show for it. I'd rather build a model or read a book. If I am tired I'll veg in front of the TV or watch a good movie like everyone else, but if I am actually going to put some effort into something it will be more substantial than a video game. If I want to play a game it will be online chess.

As opposed to a painted plastic toy that impresses no one but other modelers and maybe a few military history nerds? What happens to all these models? Eventually landfills, mostly. Maybe we give them away to people obliging enough to take them. Maybe we sell them, if they're good. But let's face it, they're about as useful as bowling trophies, completed crossword puzzles, and already-read cheap paperback novels. I love building models but I don't kid myself about their inherent value.

What you get out of better video games with decent storytelling is often the same thing you get from reading fiction or watching movies. Frankly, I think the writing in some games is better than anything in recent movies or television. The World War II games, if well done, have potential to teach you more than building plastic toys.

[thegoodsgt]

For those of you who were active in the hobby 25 years ago, compare the size of Squadron's catalog back then to what it is now. It's HUGE now! (I bulked up stuffing hundreds of them into your bags at the Columbus Nats last summer.) So yes, modeling is more popular now than it was back then.

[toadwbg]

Would it really kill Hollywood to add a 30 second scene of Vin Diesel building a model of his car in The Fast and the Furious Part XXVII. Maybe the bad guys could bust through the door while he was modeling and he could take them out with a zippo and a can of Tamiya Incendiary Red. :lol:

big thumbs up

[loftycomfort]

The Problem: the modelling demographic is aging and shrinking.

The Objective: expand the market, attract more younger buyers.

The Solution: make more eggplanes

The Solution, version 2.0: make more pink eggplanes, hence instantly doubling your market to girls

Everyone, at the door is a stack of certificates for completing the Scale Modeling MBA program. Please pick up your copy when exiting the lecture hall.

Best regards,

Management, Business Faculty

[splatcat]

There are alternate sources for lower priced kits but you have to keep your eyes open. Despite all of the soaring kit prices, I still see no reason to pay more than twenty dollars for a kit for a kid entering the hobby. Gettng one for significantly less is not very hard. Save the fifty dollar jet with the PE and the resin add-ons for those of us who are deeper into it. As for paints and glue, you can still buy a set of acrylics fairly cheap these days and superglue is not an uncommon item in any houshold. Otherwise just get the kid an orange tube. I don't worry much about special colors such as SAC green or the right shade of desert tan unless I am going for something specific. A spraycan of grey primer paint costs less then $1.25 at wal-mart.

The real problem is that there just aren't enough parents passing the hobby on. Unfortunately most parents don't learn how to do the whole thing on the cheap. Any LHS will be happy to charge mega-bucks (sometimes they have no choice) to set someone up but there isn't a need to do so. The hobby isn't dying anymore than model railroading is. It is just changing.

[Fishwelding]

I wonder with diecast is it really competition or gateway drug.

Would it really kill Hollywood to add a 30 second scene of Vin Diesel building a model of his car in The Fast and the Furious Part XXVII. Maybe the bad guys could bust through the door while he was modeling and he could take them out with a zippo and a can of Tamiya Incendiary Red. ;)

Kevin Smith movies in the 1990s, I think, can safely be credited with putting comic books into mainstream "kitsch-cool." Suddenly an entire generation of fashionably-nerdy people were eagerly dropping big bucks for the newer comic books, collecting older books, and assuring you with suitable snootiness that they were fans from way back before it was cool.

Even if we had some airheaded, Hollywood tough-guy, bubbling, giggly movie starlet, or pierced-and-tattooed ironic-lyric musician admit in some interview their guilty pleasure of assembling 50's cars or Luftwaffe planes--"Oh, it's really bad. I've got an airbrush and everything"--suddenly local hobby shop crew would have to take their feet off the counter, stand up, and retire that ancient cash register for high-speed scanning technology. Oh, and keep regular hours, too.

And to any of Culture Warriors who start snorting about how you'd rather see the hobby die than tolerate people other than Eagle Scouts and Country Music listeners, let me add this: You continue to gnash your teeth about diversity; I'll gladly accept anyone who will pay part of the bill so a model maker can subsequently offer me a low-cost 1/48th scale A-6E, or a new-tooled 1/35th scale Atomic Annie Rig.

Edited April 6, 2010 by Fishwelding

[madmanrick]

For those of you who were active in the hobby 25 years ago, compare the size of Squadron's catalog back then to what it is now. It's HUGE now! (I bulked up stuffing hundreds of them into your bags at the Columbus Nats last summer.) So yes, modeling is more popular now than it was back then.

The size of a catalog means absolutely nothing in regards to popularity, they are apples and oranges. The size of the catalog is simply an outgrowth of the popularity of online buying. Forget 25 years ago, even 15 years ago the vast majority of model kits were purchased face to face, in a brick and mortar store. That has changed drastically, now the vast majority of models are purchased through mail/internet/phone. 15 years ago there were almost no shops that sold on the internet, as the internet was still in its' infancy, at least in terms of wide-spread, non-techie usage.

[Big Texan]

Wow, so many excellent points made! Maybe we modelers are a bit wrapped too tight. Granted, as far as the quality of kits today, they are better than 20 years ago. However, there was more appeal back then and an excitement of going to a hobby shop. Now, we do hit the internet for the most part. Partly to avoid paying taxes, partly because paying shipping and the price of the kit was cheaper then going to the local hobby shop. Also, a great point was made about where we purchased kits. We bought them at Drug Stores, 5 & Dime stores, etc. An example today would be purchasing 21st century kits at Wal Mart for $9.95, or at least we used to. Maybe this is the key. If kits were at Wal Mart for example, this alone could cause the price of kits to come down all around.

I remember talking with a lady who managed toys at our Wal Mart, and she said the model kits were her best seller. Why they stopped selling them she couldn't understand. Well, part of the answer was that 21st Century was suffering problems that finally put them out of business.

Anyway, what are the solutions?

[Superjew]

I gather from all the mentions of Dime Stores and stuff in this thread that I am one of the younger modelers on this forum?

I got into them because im a WWII buff. My video games that I mainly play is Day of Defeat Source, IL2 Sturmovik and Company of Heroes, cant get a decent WWII game on any consoles, so I had a pc built to play what I want, I have read a lot about WWII and considering becoming a reenactor (Im also somewhat into firearms)

I guess the only people who are interested in building models come from a similar military history background, and the diecast model cars quality is getting so good theres almost no point in trying to build a plastic one of similar quality.

[Fishwelding]

Anyway, what are the solutions?

Someone willing to take a loss for a very long time making kits, selling kits, and promoting them at great cost through high-quality, big-ticket, popular media. Over time--not months, not years, but possibly decades, build up a consumer base. But this means you need a very wealthy and media-savvy Rich Aunt or Uncle.

And with that said, I agree that Wingnut's products are very impressive, moreso now that Hyperscale has the whole story.

“I’m determined to keep the hobby aspect going, which is why we are not driven by market forces and profit – it would then become something I don’t want it to be." --Sir Peter Jackson.

He's crazy! Crazy enough to be a genius! Upon reading this, I resolved to start building 1/32nd scale World War I kits. I'd like to see him pleasantly surprised when, despite his disclaiming of market motive, he accidentally turns a profit!

Edited April 6, 2010 by Fishwelding

[Miccara]

If you look at some of the ridiculous courses offered in university today, I think we should have a model aircraft building course.

That would certainly build the fan base ten fold.

10. The Vampire in Literature and Cinema at the University of Wisconsin

9. Dirty Pictures at Rhode Island School of Design

8. Learning From YouTube at Pitzer College

7. Field Equipment Operation A.K.A. Tractor Driving at U.C. Davis

6. UFOs In American Society at Temple University

5. The Science Of “Harry Potter†at Frostburg State University

4. “Far Side†Entomology at Oregon State

3. Arguing With Judge Judy: Popular ‘Logic’ On TV Judge Shows at U.C. Berkeley

2. Zombies in Popular Media at Columbia College

1. Philosophy and “Star Trek†at Georgetown University

[madmanrick]

I remember talking with a lady who managed toys at our Wal Mart, and she said the model kits were her best seller. Why they stopped selling them she couldn't understand. Well, part of the answer was that 21st Century was suffering problems that finally put them out of business.

Walmart operates on a business model of continually forcing their suppliers to provide them products at an ever lower price (and "floating" by paying their suppliers only after 90 days, while turning the merchandise around in 7 days, which is akin to a no-interest 90 day loan to the tune of 4 Billion dollars per year). I am sure that what happened with model kits was that they couldn't find any manufacturer willing to get involved with that "death spiral" that being a Walmart supplier brings with it. Supposedly Walmart honchos were quoted as saying that model kits weren't selling fast enough and that was why they no longer sell them. So it is interesting that a front-line supervisor is quoted as saying exactly the opposite.

Life is so difficult for Walmart suppliers, that not only have many gone belly up trying to meet their ever lower price demands, others have simply stopped selling their products to Walmart. This is part of the reason for their nickname "The Bully of Bentonville."

[Fishwelding]

If you look at some of the ridiculous courses offered in university today, I think we should have a model aircraft building course.

That would certainly build the fan base ten fold.

10. The Vampire in Literature and Cinema at the University of Wisconsin

9. Dirty Pictures at Rhode Island School of Design

8. Learning From YouTube at Pitzer College

7. Field Equipment Operation A.K.A. Tractor Driving at U.C. Davis

6. UFOs In American Society at Temple University

5. The Science Of “Harry Potter†at Frostburg State University

4. “Far Side†Entomology at Oregon State

3. Arguing With Judge Judy: Popular ‘Logic’ On TV Judge Shows at U.C. Berkeley

2. Zombies in Popular Media at Columbia College

1. Philosophy and “Star Trek†at Georgetown University

Hmm...I haven't read the course descriptions, but I could imagine teaching a lot of history, sociology, political science, anthropology, and even some engineering and especially business education under those catchy course titles.

In all honestly, I think there is a ton you could learn from Youtube as a start-up web company, a media facilitator that threatens to undo years of big investment by lots of people in media systems, and the subsequent and ongoing legal battle, a veritable Kursk of lawyers, that will ensue. Indeed, if it's offered in the future the ongoing fight will make for excellent classroom discussion. Good for engineers, business school people of all types, law students, journalism students, historians and political scientists interested in large, open-sided technology systems.

UFOs in American society sounds appealing, because you can hang a lot of related themes on that: America's love affair with technology as an idea but contempt for expertise that develops it, America's fascination with otherworldly beings that will save us from ourselves, America's craving for conspiracy theory, America's politics of information access, and on and on. Good, eye-catching subject to discuss a lot of political, sociological and historical themes in American history.

The Arguing with Judge Judy sounds good right off the bat to me, because anything teaching logic, particularly measured against how issues are presented in Television Media, sounds like a Godsend. Plus, you use the hook to sneakily get them to read stuff by old dead dudes like Hegel, Kant, and Aristotle. And if courses on Hegel, Kant, or Aristotle won't bring 'em in (and surprise! they won't), then do what you gotta do.

Zombies in Popular Media has potential to discuss historical, political and cultural stuff concerning disasters, war, paranoia, and see the UFO course above.

Or Hey, we could just continue to present the very same themes in the same-dull-as-dishwater courses that have alienated students from critical thinking for 80 or 90 years, now. Or better yet, just rely on 24-hour news television and political blogs to do all our critical thinking for us.

[Miccara]

...Hmm...I haven't read the course descriptions.

...we could just continue to present the very same themes in the same-dull-as-dishwater courses that have alienated students from critical thinking for 80 or 90 years, now.

...or better yet, just rely on 24-hour news television and political blogs to do all our critical thinking for us.

On the first point, you haven't read them so your comment is predicated on an assumption, and a wrong one at that.

As for the 2nd element, "those same-dull-as-dishwater courses" (which I would argue, are not), I found quite exciting and thought provoking.

And the 3rd point... Some people are incapable of of critical thinking. probably the same people that found those "same-dull-as-dishwater courses" boring and a a waste.

[Fishwelding]

On the first point, you haven't read them so your comment is predicated on an assumption, and a wrong one at that.

As for the 2nd element, "those same-dull-as-dishwater courses" (which I would argue, are not), I found quite exciting and thought provoking.

And the 3rd point... Some people are incapable of of critical thinking. probably the same people that found those "same-dull-as-dishwater courses" boring and a a waste.

And even if I had the course descriptions, I might be loath to judge. I'm not teaching them. Are you?

And I'm glad you found old-style courses thought-provoking. Having taught both traditional history courses as well as "special topics" classes, I've found both can benefit from a binding theme that doesn't involve just Presidential campaigns and battles. And as an college-level educator, I've had pretty good luck with getting all sorts of people to think critically, provided they're open-minded. And I won't venture a guess on as to people's capacity on critical thinking, especially not on what they find boring and a waste. The charge is leveled regularly enough about plastic model kits, after all.

Incidentally, and hilariously back on topic, I'd point out that I know of at least one hobby shop that gives 10% off on all plastics, which covers more than the cost of tax, and usually dips below shipping and handling. They make their money on RC and railroad stuff, so I don't complain that they don't have a lot of aftermarket or even specialty military lines.

Edited April 6, 2010 by Fishwelding

[Murph]

2. Zombies in Popular Media at Columbia College

Laugh now, but when the Zombie Apocalypse arrives the people that took that course will be glad they did, and the instructors will rule the post apocalyptic world.

Regards,

Murph

[Fishwelding]

Laugh now, but when the Zombie Apocalypse arrives the people that took that course will be glad they did, and the instructors will rule the post apocalyptic world.

Regards,

Murph

And yes, there's that, too. Although usually universities don't teach basic combat training outside ROTC and that Tai Kwon Do course that everyone wants to take. And that course usually has a waiting list. And honestly, you might learn a lot about Zombies that could be useful, but you probably shouldn't look for reliable combat training from a humanities professor. Because even if she or he is a veteran, they probably don't keep up with the professional literature on the latest in combat training. Everyone on campus talks a good game about interdisciplinary study, but it's usually more than enough just to keep up with your own field's publishing.

[R Tate]

Agreed, which is why I think these are a great idea. I would love to see some in every corner store.

I got into the hobby from my dad but he mostly built model cars, i agree that kits are a bit expensive for younger model builders so for that I love Revell kits, good way to practice adding details yourself... those Testors kits (quote) are cheap, fun, and easy (I built 2). I got a Tamiya kit from my dad (1/72 corsair) and it is better (a lot) but it takes a while for younger model builders to save up to get them

[Lightningboy9000]

Efforts to try and recapture the youth market would probably involve more money than anyone in the United States is willing to spend, and in (just) my opinion, a retooling of the hobby's image, including but not limited to: make it kitsch-kool, get some high-profile entertainment industry types to back it, offer a wider variety of subjects than primarily military and automotive kits, and seriously construct a female half of the consumer base.

Just been reading this thread and this made me reallise that the industry needs to aim sharply at the youngsters and as much as possible instead of just catering for the specialist 30-60 something modeller. When the current generation of 30-60 something modellers die out, there won't be as many people to hand it down to the youngsters. That's why it is really important for the manufacturers to aim at the bottom of the market even more so now than in the past if they are to survive in the future. This seems to be the master plan by Hornby with their guidance and ownership of Airfix which is all bright and colorful and is being marketed/aimed at the young novice with sucsessfull results. I really think that the model companies should tie them selves in with the computer game companies and produce kits of subjects from their games.

This I believe is the most productive way of luring kids away from the X-box from time to time. Even promote the franchised products before the actual game starts or even when you've finished your game.

regards

Martin

[Fishwelding]

I got into them because im a WWII buff. My video games that I mainly play is Day of Defeat Source, IL2 Sturmovik and Company of Heroes, cant get a decent WWII game on any consoles, so I had a pc built to play what I want, I have read a lot about WWII and considering becoming a reenactor (Im also somewhat into firearms)

Brothers in Arms: Hell's Highway for the XBOX 360 wasn't too bad as far as gameplay goes. But it was way too short, had too much cut scene, and the story was terrible. It's almost like they were just milking the World War II popularity by then. All that said, they did a decent job rendering Holland in September 1944, and the small-unit leadership model was interesting. As much as I'm a Garand fan, it was sort of neat to command the different squads to fight a smarter fight instead of doing all the shooting myself.

Which reminds me, that one of the best all-time war games I've ever played was Close Combat II: Market Garden. Late 1990s title, for the PC. Microsoft's company-level leadership model was really good, and CCII was fascinating, in-depth learning experience about the real campaign. When I was playing that game, Tamiya sold me a lot of 1/35th scale armor kits. Even today, had I the time I'd consider bringing it up on an emulator.

Edited April 7, 2010 by Fishwelding

[Miccara]

Laugh now, but when the Zombie Apocalypse arrives the people that took that course will be glad they did, and the instructors will rule the post apocalyptic world.

Regards,

Murph