Unhappy after Badger 150 to Iwata Eclipse HP-CS switch

[Rob de Bie]

I recently bought an Iwata Eclipse HP-CS to replace a 15 year old Badger 150, and so far I'm rather unhappy about the switch. I have three main problems:

1. clogging: after a bit of spraying, it seems like the heavier parts of the paint settle at the bottom and clog the nozzle. I can only continue spraying by rocking the needle (pumping). The old Badger is a bottom feeder which avoided the problem.

2. spitting: the Iwata nozzle design is like the old Badger one, and paint collects around the nozzle. This leads to spitting when you least want it. The 'new' Badger nozzle with triangular teeth doesn't suffer from this at all.

3. cleaning: I need three hands to clean the Iwata, it has places that are near impossible to reach, and I need a lot of tissues compared to the two that I needed to clean the Badger.

For reference: I use enamels (Humbrol, Italeri Model Master, Revell), about 1.5 bar (21 psi) pressure, and factory thinners.

If anyone can comment, I'm all ears! Maybe someone who made a similar switch? Thanks!

Rob

Edited May 14, 2010 by Rob de Bie

[MaxPower]

I did the same thing, I had a badger 155 and added the same airbrush as you. I find I use the badger a lot more. I don't like cleaning the Iwata and I find the trigger sticks in the O-ring in the valve assy if you don't lube it. I've never lubed anything on my badger... ever, but the Iwata hates not getting lubed. Mine doesn't spit during use but paint will collect a little at the tip so it does spit a little each time I press the trigger for air on. Not a big deal I'm not aiming at my model when I pull the trigger anyways.

I would strongly suggest dropping your pressure by almost half mine sprays great around 10-12 PSI my Bager at about 18ish PSI.

Anybody want to trade a HP-CS for a 105? lol.

Edited May 14, 2010 by MaxPower

[Bob Beary]

Rob,

The Iwata might have a different (smaller) tip size that will require different thinning ratios than the Badger.

Iwatas are very good A/B's There is a lot more art than science to airbrushing.

Experiment and lots of pracice. I'm convinced that you can paint anything with any airbrush if you put in the time to learn your A/B.

Keep at it.

Bob

[ThatJeffGuy]

I made the same switch and didn't have any issues at all...I use mostly enamels though so clogging is not an issue when thinning properly.

The 150 is gathering dust in it's wodden box mind you the HP-CS is gathering dust too as I replaced it with an H&S Infinity

I found the biggest difference was that I could use smaller quantities of paint due to the gravity-feed and if thinned down I could dial down the

pressure and the paint would still spray. I never could get the mixture down right with the 150....but then again I was impatient and just threw

money at the problem. The 150 is a grest brush and other people have it pretty dialled-in.

My biggest gripe for the HP-CS is the damn wrench you need to remove the cap.

[CF104]

I have three airbrushes in my arsenal. A Paasche H for general coverage spraying and clears, a Badger 150 and an Iwata HP-C Plus. The Iwata was an instant hit with me and the Badger sits in its case as a backup if needed.

I find the Iwata the easiest to clean of all of my brushes. Mind you I only spray acrylics through it but I always found my 150 a pain to clean and the Paasche not as bad.

As for spitting this sounds like you don't have the needle properly seated in the tip. My Iwata will collect dried paint around the tip while spraying but this is an issue with the paint, acrylic, and not the brush. I easily clean this off during my spraying sessions before it lets go.

Cheers,

John

[ThatJeffGuy]

I just had a recollection... although it might be misplaced. I recall some spitting in my HP-CS and as CF104 mentioned it turned out to be because the

needle was not totally seated in the very front of the brush. I had pushed it all the way forward and tightened the needle locking nut at the back

HOWEVER...there is another 'nut' that essentially screws the entire needle chuck assembly into the body (it's just ahead of the little screw that loosens

and tightens the needle. See if this large nut can be tightened at all because as you loosen it, it has the effect of un-seating the needle at the front. Hope that

makes sense...I may have to post a picture

EDIT...oh and Rob...21 PSI is waaaay high for this brush. You can go down to 10-12 comfortably, thin a bit more and Bob's your Uncle as the Brits lke to say

Edited May 15, 2010 by ThatJeffGuy

[MikeC]

...21 PSI is waaaay high for this brush. You can go down to 10-12 comfortably, thin a bit more and Bob's your Uncle as the Brits lke to say

Agree, I usually spray (acrylics, mainly Tamiya) at about 15 psi, well thinned. I have an HP-CS and a Badger Anthem 155; the latter gets used occasionally for fast large area coverage, I generally stick to the Iwata. Thin to the right ratio (and I don't do numbers, just the consistency of skimmed milk or thereabouts) and Robert is indeed your Avuncular relative.

Edited May 15, 2010 by MikeC

[jbrundt]

I switched a few years ago after I found a deal at Hobby Lobby on the Iwata.

I like the Iwata. I feel I have better control. But I do have the same trigger sticking problem as others have reported. I primarily spray acrylics. When it does spit it usually ends up being the paint is too thick. I also never start the trigger while on the subject because of the chance for a spit. Any airbrush can do that so it should become habit to pull that trigger prior to spraying the actual work.

Jeff

[Gundamhead]

Just from your description, it sounds like your spraying at too high a PSI, like others said. I'd cut the paint more, and dial back to about 10 PSI.

[Big Kev]

EDIT...oh and Rob...21 PSI is waaaay high for this brush. You can go down to 10-12 comfortably, thin a bit more and Bob's your Uncle as the Brits lke to say

Ah, that's not great news for me! I bought an Iwata a couple of years ago, but really haven't used it. I'm actually a bit intimidated by it to be honest. But my Sparmax compressor will only go down to about 20-22 PSI before the little adjustment nut rattles right off the bottom of the water trap! I really can't afford a new compressor, but I'm thinking about replacing the regulator with one that doesn't have an issue with its nuts. It seems that spraying at lower air pressures than I can manage is the key to a lot of this stuff.

Kev

[ThatJeffGuy]

Kev...I don't think it's a limitation of the compressor...it's more a limitation of the valve (regulator). If you splurge about $30 you can get a

good regulator from Badger that will go down to 10 and consistently deliver it. The compressor itself shouldn't have any difficulty pumping out 10 PSI

[ventura_kelley]

Kev...I don't think it's a limitation of the compressor...it's more a limitation of the valve (regulator). If you splurge about $30 you can get a

good regulator from Badger that will go down to 10 and consistently deliver it. The compressor itself shouldn't have any difficulty pumping out 10 PSI

I bought one of those moisture trap/regulator combos and it's been one of the best purchases that I've ever had for airbrushing.

Air Regulator, Filter and Gauge for air compressors. (# 50-054)

http://www.badgerairbrush.com/Acessories_8.asp

I LOVE that thing. No one item, aside from a non-leaking airbrush, has made a bigger immediate impact than that.

[T-bone]

1. clogging: after a bit of spraying, it seems like the heavier parts of the paint settle at the bottom and clog the nozzle.

You need to mix the paint well, mix in a separate container and use a pipette to dispense the paint to the reservoir. Don't add the very bottom of the pot unless it is completely mixed. You may even need to filter the paint. I find that if I don't mix the paint well-- especially when adding white-- I get clumps in the bottom of my paint cup. If this happens, I cut my losses and clean the paint cup and remix more thoroughly. A cleaning and refill usually solves that problem.

2. spitting: ...This leads to spitting when you least want it.

Make sure the needle is fully seated in the nozzle before tightening thumbscrew. Also, make sure there isn't anything interfering with the needles fit. Don't cram the needle into the nozzle but make sure it seats all the way then gently tighten the thumbscrew. One tip I got from a car airbrush guy, depress the air before starting the paint flow to help prevent splatter and it helps to start and stop spraying off the model to help prevent accidents (if you can).

3. cleaning: I need a lot of tissues compared to the two that I needed to clean the Badger.

It usually takes me about 2 Q-tips and a paper towel to clean my Iwata thoroughly at the end of a paint session. I empty the cup of paint, partially fill with solvent (alcohol or thinner) and mix around with one end of a q-tip, spray this out, remove needle and wipe it clean, partially fill cup with solvent, mix around with q-tip and spray again with needle out this time, inspect cup to make sure clean, clean nozzle with solvent soaked q-tip, replace needle, partially fill cup and move needle back and forth, take needle out again and wipe clean, spray out cup, replace needle, one last rinse with solvent and spray out again. Use last clean side of q-tip to clean exterior of brush and paint cup lid. I usually will spray some of the solvent onto the paint cup lid during cleaning to help loosen any paint that is on it. After last rinse, wipe dry with a clean paper towel (or old cloth). I only clean the cup and needle between colors.

My biggest issue when using my Iwata HP-CH (I realize your is a HP-CS) is not thinning the paint enough and then needing too high of pressure. Once I found the best paint/thinner/pressure ratio for me I was much happier

How you figure it out!

[toadwbg]

I went from the similar Badger 360 to a Iawata HP-CS about a year ago and I have nothing butgood things to say about the Iawata.

I use primarilly Tamiya acrylics thinned with 90% ISO alholhol + Liquitex Floaid at about 60/40 thinner to paint ratio at the lowest psi I can, usually around 10 psi and have terrific results.

I find the heavier body of the IwatA helps steady my hand some, and the larger gravity fed color cup helps avoid spills .

Switching airbrushed was like making love to a new woman :). And I'm still lovin' it.

[Old Blind Dog]

Switching airbrushed was like making love to a new woman . And I'm still lovin' it.

What? You mean clumsy, awkward, and over too quickly?

(Sorry, couldn't resist!)

cheers

Old Blind Dog

[MoFo]

over too quickly?

Certainly will be if he can't remember the right name. ;)

[Big Kev]

Kev...I don't think it's a limitation of the compressor...it's more a limitation of the valve (regulator). If you splurge about $30 you can get a

good regulator from Badger that will go down to 10 and consistently deliver it. The compressor itself shouldn't have any difficulty pumping out 10 PSI ;)

Yeah, sorry Jeff, I guess that's kinda what I meant. The regulator is removable, but it looks like it'll take a mighty effort to unscrew. I'm a bit concerned that the Sparmax gear might use non-standard sizes too, so I'm thinking I might need to get my replacement regulator directly from Sparmax if I can.

I bought one of those moisture trap/regulator combos and it's been one of the best purchases that I've ever had for airbrushing.

Air Regulator, Filter and Gauge for air compressors. (# 50-054)

http://www.badgerairbrush.com/Acessories_8.asp

I LOVE that thing. No one item, aside from a non-leaking airbrush, has made a bigger immediate impact than that.

Thanks for that. Looks like I know what my next gadget purchase will be!

Kev

[eagle_1]

for the high pressure, just make holes for the air from the compressor air out to your airbrush, put holes until desired air pressure output from the airbrush is achieved. the longer the line the better the make holes. almost no cost man, now wheres that mentos add. ;)

daryl

[Rob de Bie]

Thank you all for the responses!

I learned a couple of good things in this thread. Indeed my pressure was too high. The Badger 150 requires more pressure because you need to suck up the paint, the Iwata is gravity fed and doesn't need that kind of pressure. The results with lower pressure were better.

The spitting problem persists, but it's less with lower pressure. Here's my theory. I don't think it's caused by the needle seating, it's the shape of the needle protector ring. Old Badgers had a similar paint collecting problem. Look at the part on the extreme left, the old design in the top picture with a tapered cilinder, and the new design with four traingular teeth:

The shape of the old version is such that it allows the formation of a vortex flow inside the needle protector, that will deposit paint near the nozzle, which is then spit at the most incovenient moment. The vortex does not develop with the triangular teeth version, hence no paint collecting. My Badger 150 never ever spat paint! The moment I saw the Iwata, I knew it would collect paint around the nozzle, and unfortunately it does. But I'm not going to modify it yet..

Rob

[Matt]

It sounds like what you want is to get the crown cap accessory to replace the regular cap.

Alternatively, a lot of airbrush artists will work without that cap at all and trust themselves not to jam the needle into the work.

Making sure you star the airflow before pulling the trigger back to start the paint flow will help a lot with this. Alternatively, you can always pause every now and again and swab it out with a thinner moistened Qtip (draw the needle back first).

Cheers,

Matt

[Gundamhead]

Assuming your spitting is not condensation in the line. (The fix for that is a water trap, there is nothing else to fix condensation).

The needle needs to be set correctly. If it is too far back, paint will leak from the needle tip, and collect at part 50-0391 everytime you stop spraying. The next time you press the button to start spraying, you will 'spit' that collected drop of paint.

The needle tip should sit in the closed position when the brush is relaxed. That means it should be ever so slightly snug in part 50-0391. That is closed, and will not allow any leak of paint between sparys. Do not push the needle into part 50-0391, you will wreck it easily. A gentle seat is what I mean by snug.

If you still get spit after seating the needle properly, it's not mixed right. It is drying too quicly out of the nozzle, and needs less air, or more thinner still.

[Gundamhead]

Just a bit of a reminder, your paint needs to hit your subject slightly wet, then dry. If it hits dry, you have too much air pressure or too little thinner. Using flat paints to practice this will demonstrate this better than anything else.