ex-USMC_Hornet_WSO Posted August 9, 2013 Share Posted August 9, 2013 (edited) OK, so how do you keep MM Acryl from lifting when you remove masking tape? Here's what I did: 1) primed the model with MM Acryl Primer, cured for 24 hrs 2) applied the MM Acryl topcoat and let it cure for 24 hrs 3) Applied two coats of Future over the topcoat and let it cure for 48 hrs Even with the primer and future, the paint still lifted after I masked over the Future finish. Where am I going wrong??! Edited August 9, 2013 by ex-USMC_Hornet_WSO Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mynameismatt Posted August 9, 2013 Share Posted August 9, 2013 (edited) This is not so much a tip, but I feel your pain. i fought with MM acryl for years and finally gave up last year. It always peeled on me. I now use MM enamels with a respirator. No more peeling problems. Edit: I should also mention that I tried all sorts of different tapes, and it didn't make a difference, the paint still wanted to lift. Edited August 9, 2013 by mynameismatt Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ex-USMC_Hornet_WSO Posted August 9, 2013 Author Share Posted August 9, 2013 This is not so much a tip, but I feel your pain. i fought with MM acryl for years and finally gave up last year. It always peeled on me. I now use MM enamels with a respirator. No more peeling problems. Edit: I should also mention that I tried all sorts of different tapes, and it didn't make a difference, the paint still wanted to lift. Did you try different brands of acrylic paint before you went to enamels? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
balls47 Posted August 9, 2013 Share Posted August 9, 2013 I'll second the MM enamels AND the respirator. I like the way the paint works and they have just about any color that you will need. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ex-USMC_Hornet_WSO Posted August 9, 2013 Author Share Posted August 9, 2013 I'll second the MM enamels AND the respirator. I like the way the paint works and they have just about any color that you will need. What kind of respirator do you use and where do you get them? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
zeus60 Posted August 9, 2013 Share Posted August 9, 2013 You need an organic respirator, available at any home improvement store. I'd strongly suggest wearing one even if you're spraying acrylics. I wear one regardless of what I'm spraying. Here is one that Amazon sells. Also, before you give up completely on MM Acryl, you might try priming with an enamel or lacquer, and then spraying the MM Acryl on top of that. MM Acryl has a reputation of not adhering terribly well to plastic, but I think it adheres fine to a primed surface. Stacey Quote Link to post Share on other sites
David Hingtgen Posted August 9, 2013 Share Posted August 9, 2013 I found that MM acryl sticks well to MM enamel. Use a cheap flat grey MM enamel spray can as your primer, then do your actual color/camo coats in acryl on top of that. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ex-USMC_Hornet_WSO Posted August 9, 2013 Author Share Posted August 9, 2013 I found that MM acryl sticks well to MM enamel. Use a cheap flat grey MM enamel spray can as your primer, then do your actual color/camo coats in acryl on top of that. Thanks. I'll give that a shot. Makes me wonder why Testors would even sell Acryl primer if enamel primer works better? I did in fact prime with MM Acryl primer. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dnl42 Posted August 9, 2013 Share Posted August 9, 2013 I too went from acrylics to MM enamels. I did try multiple acrylics, Tamiya, Vallejo, and MM. I had problems with all of them. Finally, one time I used Alclad, and found that to be won-der-ful when the fumes were managed. Finally tried MM enamel, and same results. I now use MM enamels, White Ensign Colourcoats, and Alclad. The benefits are bullet-proof masking. the ability to mist on beautifully thin and smooth coats, and a fuller range of colors. I am now a happy painter. I will say that once Vallejo cure, you can't pry them off with a crow-bar--lost a model because of same paint issues that resisted all stripping attempts. But I never was fully satisfied with the spraying, even Vallejo Model Air. In any event, you could try them and let them cure a bit before masking. I still use Vallejo and some of the gaming brands for brushing some cockpit and others small details. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Procopius Posted August 9, 2013 Share Posted August 9, 2013 I use acrylics all the time, particularly Model Master; I primed with Vallejo acrylic primer in the past (but found it rather frustrating) and now use the Tamiya spray primer; I haven't had any problems with peeling using the Tamiya stuff as a base. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Triarius Posted August 9, 2013 Share Posted August 9, 2013 OK, so how do you keep MM Acryl from lifting when you remove masking tape? Here's what I did: 1) primed the model with MM Acryl Primer, cured for 24 hrs 2) applied the MM Acryl topcoat and let it cure for 24 hrs 3) Applied two coats of Future over the topcoat and let it cure for 48 hrs Even with the primer and future, the paint still lifted after I masked over the Future finish. Where am I going wrong??! It doesn't matter what you put on the model, but how clean the surface is. I use acrylics exclusively, and I have no adhesion problems. (Admittedly, MM Acryl is a terrible paint for the current level of technology, especially with regard to adhesion.) Clean the surface adequately and your problems will largely go away. Enamels stick to dirty surfaces because they dissolve many surface contaminants. Adequately cure the paint before masking. Acrylics dry quickly but cure slowly. For MM Acryl, VERY thorough mixing appears to be necessary. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
chuck540z3 Posted August 10, 2013 Share Posted August 10, 2013 This is not so much a tip, but I feel your pain. i fought with MM acryl for years and finally gave up last year. It always peeled on me. I now use MM enamels with a respirator. No more peeling problems. Edit: I should also mention that I tried all sorts of different tapes, and it didn't make a difference, the paint still wanted to lift. Ditto here as well. I hate MM Acryl and love the enamels. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fly-n-hi Posted August 11, 2013 Share Posted August 11, 2013 I hate MM Acryl and hardly ever use it. But I've come to learn that it sticks pretty well to Tamiya Surface Primer and it sticks really well when thinned with lacquer thinner. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
zeus60 Posted August 11, 2013 Share Posted August 11, 2013 I hate MM Acryl and hardly ever use it. But I've come to learn that it sticks pretty well to Tamiya Surface Primer and it sticks really well when thinned with lacquer thinner. You thinned the MM Acryl with lacquer thinner?! I've heard of Tamiya being thinned with lacquer thinner, but not MM Acryl. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fly-n-hi Posted August 11, 2013 Share Posted August 11, 2013 You thinned the MM Acryl with lacquer thinner?! I've heard of Tamiya being thinned with lacquer thinner, but not MM Acryl. Yeah. I used lacquer thinner from the hardware store. It actually worked very well. But I still hate MM Acryl. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ex-USMC_Hornet_WSO Posted August 11, 2013 Author Share Posted August 11, 2013 I hate MM Acryl and hardly ever use it. But I've come to learn that it sticks pretty well to Tamiya Surface Primer and it sticks really well when thinned with lacquer thinner. Is the Tamiya Surface Primer an enamel? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
spejic Posted August 11, 2013 Share Posted August 11, 2013 I use all sorts of acrylics and never had any peel - ever. And I usually use no primer at all. I only use Tamiya (or similar) tapes. And I only thin with Model Master acrylic thinner. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mlicari Posted August 11, 2013 Share Posted August 11, 2013 (edited) I use all sorts of acrylics and never had any peel - ever. And I usually use no primer at all. I only use Tamiya (or similar) tapes. And I only thin with Model Master acrylic thinner. I have found the same. I have used MM Acryl almost exclusively now (using Lifecolor very occasionally) and have not had a problem with lifting paint. I use either Tamiya tape or more usually (because it's cheaper) "30 Day Delicate Surface" masking tape. It can be had at your local hardware store. The only problem I've ever had with MM Acryl was when I sprayed paint on an oily surface...I forgot to wash my hands after eating a BLT! But that's my fault, not the paint. You can see here that you can achieve nice, crisp lines with MM Acryl and the right tape: :cheers:/> Mike Edited August 11, 2013 by mlicari Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dnl42 Posted August 11, 2013 Share Posted August 11, 2013 I use all sorts of acrylics and never had any peel - ever. And I usually use no primer at all. I only use Tamiya (or similar) tapes. And I only thin with Model Master acrylic thinner. I used the same ingredients. I gave my models a wash-down in denatured alcohol prior to painting. I only used the paint brand's thinner. I always primed with Tamiya or Mr Color primer. Yet my masking results suffered from lift-off on too many occasions and the results were never as good as they should have been--and occasionally disastrous... I'm glad it works for you. That's the nature of our hobby, we can use the same ingredients and while we all make models we're proud of, some of us (well, some of you) make masterpieces. As I noted above, since switching to enamels, I'm much happier with my painting. :) Having written that, you could try Parafilm. It would be more expensive than tape for general masking, but I doubt it has ever lifted paint. While Tamiya is my go-to for general masking, I use Parafilm when I do intricate masking, such as following curved panel lines and the like. It's the only way I'll tackle the scallops on the Gee Bee or Travel Air Mystery racers in my stash. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
balls47 Posted August 11, 2013 Share Posted August 11, 2013 What kind of respirator do you use and where do you get them? Yessir, I'm sorry it took me so long to get back to you on the respirator. I use an organic respirator that's made by 3M. It's called a "Dual Cartridge Organic Vapor Respirator / P95 Assembly." The model number on the filter is 5153. I bought it from a friend of mine that owns a body shop. This is a great hobby. It's fun and safe. Like any hobby, we are the ones that make things unsafe. Make sure that you use a respirator. Either paint outside, or vent your fumes outside. My buddy that owns the body shop is very serious when it comes to employee safety. He told me that if you can smell something (even through a respirator), it's getting into your system. You can probably get a good respirator at a good auto supply store. Good luck and enjoy building models. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
volzj Posted August 12, 2013 Share Posted August 12, 2013 Testor's of course in their infinite wisdom decided to discontinue Polly Scale, the acrylic in their line which ACTUALLY STICKS!. I've been using mixes of their railroad colors since the military line went away, and now I'm going to have to hoard every last bottle of it I can find. I love the speed with which I can build using acrylics, but loathe MM acrylics. I've been burned way too many times. What to do... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
galileo1 Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 Same here, I simply hate MM Acryls, period! Luckily, I decided to test the crap out of this line a while back before ruining any models. I sprayed it thinned with everything imagined (their own thinner, water, Windex, windshield washing fluid, etc), over different primers - including their own, and the thing simply did not perform well. In each instance I let the paint dry 24 hours but it still pealed in small areas. Bottom line, if you have to use it, use it with caution. I'm sticking with Tamiya and Gunze's range of acrylics (when I can find them). Rob Quote Link to post Share on other sites
crowe-t Posted August 24, 2013 Share Posted August 24, 2013 I use MM Acryl and use Tamiya Fine Surface Primer. I haven't had any issues with it sticking to the primer. When I mask over the MM Acryl I use Tamiya tape which works just fine. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
randypandy831 Posted August 25, 2013 Share Posted August 25, 2013 I use to use MM acrylics a lot of did a lot of testing and came to the conclusion that they have zero bite under a none primed surface. they need a good prime in order to cure well. I prime with tamiya surface primer and gunze mr.surfacer and never had any lifting problems. maybe even try thinning with lacquer to help it bite into the plastic. this is something i do with tamiya acrylics. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
zeus60 Posted August 26, 2013 Share Posted August 26, 2013 I use to use MM acrylics a lot of did a lot of testing and came to the conclusion that they have zero bite under a none primed surface. they need a good prime in order to cure well. I prime with tamiya surface primer and gunze mr.surfacer and never had any lifting problems. maybe even try thinning with lacquer to help it bite into the plastic. this is something i do with tamiya acrylics. I don't know if I'd say zero bite. I've used them on cockpits and landing gear bays (where I won't be masking) without any problem. Stacey Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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