Ilya Kurenkov Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 Hi, everyone, Can anybody familiar with airfield operations help me with the following question? There is a photo of Soviet MiG-29 at Elmendorf AB in 1989, which is signed 4. USSR and USA Maintenance Personnel Refuel a Soviet MiG-29 Fighter Jet (Tail Number 315) August 1989 Elmendorf Air Force Base, State of Alaska, USA However, I don't see any Fuel pump, just this green cart, which appears to be an air compressor. So what is the role of compressor in refueling process and what were these guys doing when the photo was taken? Thank you in advance Ilya Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jinxter13 Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 it appears they're doing what was once called "over the wing fueling", only they're doing on the Aux gasbag. A Soviet MiG in the US would raise some eyebrows during that time period; unusual to say the least. How it got there would be point of interest; maybe a neighborly visit to improve/promote better relations. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ilya Kurenkov Posted December 31, 2014 Author Share Posted December 31, 2014 it appears they're doing what was once called "over the wing fueling", only they're doing on the Aux gasbag. A Soviet MiG in the US would raise some eyebrows during that time period; unusual to say the least. How it got there would be point of interest; maybe a neighborly visit :hmmm:/>/> to improve/promote better relations. Hi, #1 Greywolf, thanks for your reply. So that green air compressor is just standing here and doesn't have any relation to the refueling process, right? In August 1989 two Fulcrums and AN-225 participated in Abbotsford International Airshow, Canada. While travelling to the airshow they had to make a brief stop at Elmendorf AB for refueling. Here is nice selection of photos from this visit, including famous photo of F-15's meeting MiGs. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sebastijan Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 Is it possible, this green cart is actually a mobile fuel pump for underground fuel reservoirs? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ya-gabor Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 (edited) Please have a closer look at the photo. The green fuel line is actually there and it is "going" out of the picture (in the bottom left hand corner) to the fuel truck which is standing somewhere to the left of the cameraman (out of the photo). The Russian technician in the center is actually looking toward to truck to know when to finish the procedure. Ground power unit has no connection with the refueling procedure in this case, it was simply there. Best regards Gabor Edited December 31, 2014 by ya-gabor Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Flankerman Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 One thing it does show however, is that Soviet aircraft all had NATO-compatible 'connections' - electrical, fuel, LOX etc. This was so that they could use western facilities when they invaded from the east into west European airfields. I took this photo during an airshow at RAF Fairford - it shows a VVS Tu-95MS Bear being 'refueled' from a USAF LOX Cart... Note the B-52 behind - a meeting of two old Cold War warriors. Ken Quote Link to post Share on other sites
caudleryan Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 That's very interesting, Ken. I never knew that! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ilya Kurenkov Posted December 31, 2014 Author Share Posted December 31, 2014 Sebastijan This is MC-1A Air Compressor. I googled out half of the Internet to find this out :)/> ya_gabor Yes, you are right, fuel line clearly shows where the truck or pump is. Things get much more clear in this photo when you know where to look :)/> Flankerman This guy in the center should pay more attention to the multi-million roubles nuclear bomber he is servicing, than to the girl he is talking to :D/> I don't think there was any special intention to use NATO-compatible jacks, it is just impractical. Different standards, different specifications of hydraulic, pneumatic and electrical systems etc etc. However, there should be some adapters in use. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
habu2 Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 The Soviets made several visits starting with this one in 1989. In 1990 they brought an Il-76 and the same two MiG-29s to Dayton, and the An-225 and two Su-27s to Oklahoma City. Here are photos I took at both shows in 1990 (scanned from 4x6 prints) Viktor Pugachev and local media personality after a ride in the Su-27UB Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GreyGhost Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 Actually, their first visit was with an An-124 at San Diego in 1988. Air & Space America 88 was the event. : -Gregg Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ross blackford Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 (edited) :D/>/>, Hi Ilya, I used to be an aircrft electrician in the RAAF and when the An-124 came to the Australian Bicentennial Airshow at Richmond in 1988 we didn't have to use any adaptors of any kind. I was charged with providing ground power for the An-124 and we just towed our GPU up to the aircraft and plugged it straight in to the external power plug. The aircraft had NATO type connectors for all these services. It was also the same for the fuel, external hydraulic and LOX conections. There were no special adaptors necessary. The larger soviet aircraft (and I'm sure the smaller types as well) had the smae type of electrical systems, (specifications wise) as western aircraft. 28V DC and 115/208V 400Hz AC systems. It was explained to us on our trade course that these specs are the most efficient power for weight that are possible for aircraft and we all know how important weight saving is with aircraft The Ka-32 helicopter that they brought with them also had the same external power and fuel etc connectors so no adaptors needed. Ken. It's interesting to me that there are so many people around that Tu-95 having its LOX topped up. In the RAAF if the LOX (or for that matter gaseous O2 on older aircraft) container needed topping up there was only one person permitted in the immediate vicinity of the aircraft. The LOX or oxy cart operator. We used to see and be amazed at photos of overseas military aircraft in their own lands being refueled, reoiled and re-LOXed at the same time. That was definitely strictly verboten here. :cheers:/>/>, Ross. Edited December 31, 2014 by ross blackford Quote Link to post Share on other sites
riffraff Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 The AN-124 was at the Abbotsford Airshow in 1986. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GreyGhost Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 I meant the first US public visit but you're right. -Gregg Quote Link to post Share on other sites
2qwik4u Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 I saw those guys at my very first airshow in Kalamazoo MI in 1990. It was my very first airshow. MiG-29, F-14, A-10, Golden Knights, Blue Angels, and all at 10 years old! I was hooked! My uncle gave me a VHS copy of the video he shot during the show. It's interesting when you see the MiG-29 doing the flat 360 knife edge turn, you can see from the smoke trails that he was using differential throttle to keep the airplane in knife edge flight. -Dave Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tdogg Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 I saw Ukrainian Mig-29s at Chatham NB in 1992, was the first time I had ever seen any Russian hardware and it was amazing. I remember reading articles on the Abbotsford visit as a kid living in envy on the opposite coast. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Wayfarer 30 Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 (edited) Actually, their first visit was with an An-124 at San Diego in 1988. Air & Space America 88 was the event. :thumbsup:/>/>/> : -Gregg Brown Field. I was there to! Concorde as well. Edited January 1, 2015 by Wayfarer 30 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Flankerman Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 From Ross..... Ken. It's interesting to me that there are so many people around that Tu-95 having its LOX topped up I think there are 3 RusAF crew on the right by the ladder, the guy from the USAF leaning over talking to the woman is probably liaison (note the briefcase - or maybe B-52 crew bag?) - the woman is the Russians interpreter/minder and the two on the left are a USAF officer and a civilian marshaller - probably provided by RIAT (the airshow organisers). There were zillions of people all over that Bear - VIP's, Press, the BBC (who were swapping badges - 'cos the Cyrillic for VVS is BBC!) etc etc. Later on, the Russian crew were selling patches, uniforms, equipment etc - I expect if you had made them a big enough offer, they would have sold you the aircraft itself!! Ken Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Flankerman Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 One thing to point out about all those Russian aircraft in the photos - they are not in-service Russian Air Force machines, but rather company demonstrators. Note the numbers - MiG-29 315, An-225 387, Su-27 388 and Su-27UB 389 - they are 'Buzz Numbers' applied for the Paris Air Show. Victor Pugachev (of Cobra fame) is a test pilot for Sukhoi. So, although it was an official visit, it wasn't, strictly speaking, a visit by the Russian Air Force. There was an 'official' RusAF visit by 2 X Tu-95MS and a support An-124 to Barksdale in 1992 :- http://www.militarypictures.info/airplanes/bombers.jpg.html Ken Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ya-gabor Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 (edited) One thing it does show however, is that Soviet aircraft all had NATO-compatible 'connections' - electrical, fuel, LOX etc. This was so that they could use western facilities when they invaded from the east into west European airfields. Ken This is exactly what I was told by our pilots who have studied in the Soviet Union! All the aircraft, both in the West and in the East are WAR MACHINES and not toys for airshows, they are intended to perform a very specific role and they should be doing it with the best efficiency, part of it is to go to war and for that you need all the fuel, lubricant, Oxygen . . . and if you have compatibility in servicing then it is far easier to do the job than to have all the logistics. Best regards Gabor P.s. Nappy New Year to all!!! :)/>))))))))) Edited January 1, 2015 by ya-gabor Quote Link to post Share on other sites
USAFsparkchaser Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 Nice PPE use while servicing that LOX. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
habu2 Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 One thing to point out about all those Russian aircraft in the photos - they are not in-service Russian Air Force machines, but rather company demonstrators. Excellent point, they were very much PR trips. Victor Pugachev (of Cobra fame) is a test pilot for Sukhoi. Met Pugachev in OKC, watched him do many Cobra maneuvers there. Also got to go into the cockpit of the An-225 - can you say green shag carpet ?!?!?!?! In Dayton the MiG demos were flown by Anatoly Kvochur, the pilot who punched out of a MiG-29 at Paris the year before ('89). Somewhere I have a photo of Kvochur flying the flight simulator we had set up at the Dayton show. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ross blackford Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 :D, From what I've personally seen and read it doesn't take very much to make Russian(nee Soviet) aircraft compatible with western types so they can operate together if the need ever arose or agaisnt each other if that need ever arose. An-124s, the An-225 and Il-76s have been operating into USAF and Coalition basees in Afghanistan for how long now? 13 years? Have the Russian types ever needed to have adaptors of any kind to do this? They're just like any large western transport. They're designed to be totally self supporting away base, unless of course they have an engine failure away base. Then, like any western transport they need some support from their home base. I was involved in a number of away base engine changes during my years working on C-130s and goodness knows how many on base at Richmond. I often wonder if some of those people who say these things about Russian (nee Soviet) aircraft have ever seen one up close on been inside one. , Ross. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ross blackford Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 :D, Green shag pile carpet Habu? Our RAAF Hercs had white lambs wool seat covers made by the Aircraft Life Support Fitters or whatever they call them these days but had grey vinyl floor coverings on the flight deck. A US Marines KC-130 that went unserviceable at Richmond once had bare floor boards on the flight deck and old tatty vinyl seat coverings. That crew were very envious of our Hercs and wished they could take them all back home and convert them to KC-130s. From memory the An-124 that came to Richmond for the airshow in 1988 had similar floor coverings to our Hercs and clothtrim seat covers in the flight deck. , Ross. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Djack Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 Excellent photos!! I regret for a time right around this time period I lost interest in aviation and models, and missed out on some of the incredible times at U.S. air shows. David Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ross blackford Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 :D, Hi David, I've never lost interest in aviation. Modelling, yes, but aviation as a whole, no. I often wonder if we'll ever see those heady days of 1980s-90s international airshows again. I certainly hope so because I'd like to see what other nations are doing in aviation rather than just western products. I'm planning to go to the Australian International Airshow at Avalon Airfield the last week of February this year but I'm not holding out too much hope of seeing anyone but the usual suspects there. , Ross. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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