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Any interest in a 160th SOAR reference CD?


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Hello all

I have the great opportunity to have the 4th Battalion of the 160th SOAR based at Joint Base Lewis-McChord, and I have been able to see them operate around Washington state a few times now, and have made a few contacts within the Unit. Between this, and public events, I have been able to amass a sizeable collection of reference photos of the MH-60M's and MH-47G's that they operate. I am thinking about creating a reference CD, and placing them up for sale.

At this time, I am setting the price at $25.00 for US locations, and $30.00 for anywhere else in the world, shipping included. I imagine the CD's will contain somewhere between 100-200 individual photos, covering walk-around style shots of both the exterior and interior, as well as over-all shots of them "in action".

If there is enough interest in these, I will go ahead with the project. I'd like a firm commitment for 8-10 of these before I commit to the time of editing the photos and burning the CD's. If you are interested, please respond in this post, or send me a PM.

Thank you

Aaron

A side note: These photos have all been taken at a public event, or with the express permission of the Battalion S-3. They do not display anything of a sensitive nature. All faces of 160th operators that I have taken will be obscured in the photos. Before going ahead with this project, I will be seeking the permission of the S-3 as well. It will not be done without his permission, and a copy sent to him for his approval, if he requests it.

EDIT: I will be keeping the prices set the way they are, HOWEVER, I will be donating $5.00 from every CD sold to a Night Stalker related charity. As of right now, it looks like the Night Stalker Association is on under consideration. I will be talking to my contact to see if there is another organization better suited for this.

Edited by strikeeagle801
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Please by all means count me in for one CD as well, Do you have an ETA ?

Still gauging interest, and waiting for approval from the 4th Battalion. Once I have that, I'll start cranking out the CD's. I should finish editing the MH-60M walk-around tonight. The only thing not included is cockpit shots. I was asked not to take any at the public event, so I didn't. You can piece together what the IP's look like from the background of other shots (and look at the MH-47G shots that will be included) but there are no direct shots of the cockpit area. It will contain photos of the interior, ceiling, floor, crash-worthy seats, aux fuel tank, ammo cans, countermeasures suite, etc. though.

Aaron

Edited by strikeeagle801
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Aaron,

I don't want to discourage you, but I made two DVDs of Huey pics with over 1500 pics on each that Floyd Werner still sells on his website. He sells them for $12 plus shipping and while there was a great response form a number of folks here on ARC, they have not sold anywhere near as well I would have thought given the popularity of the Huey. if your expectation is 8-10 folks though, i'm sure you will find that level of interest. Just be aware that while it might seem folks are clamoring for photos, they aren't always willing to shell out hard earned money for them. That being said, a sanctioned Night Stalker DVD might be a big hit. It is certainly easier to find photos of Hueys that 160th birds on the web! Good luck!

Ray

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Aaron,

I don't want to discourage you, but I made two DVDs of Huey pics with over 1500 pics on each that Floyd Werner still sells on his website. He sells them for $12 plus shipping and while there was a great response form a number of folks here on ARC, they have not sold anywhere near as well I would have thought given the popularity of the Huey. if your expectation is 8-10 folks though, i'm sure you will find that level of interest. Just be aware that while it might seem folks are clamoring for photos, they aren't always willing to shell out hard earned money for them. That being said, a sanctioned Night Stalker DVD might be a big hit. It is certainly easier to find photos of Hueys that 160th birds on the web! Good luck!

Ray

Ray

I do understand what you are saying. Unfortunately, there are people out there that don't realize that as a photographer, it takes time and money to produce something like this. In my case, it was anywhere from a 1-3 hour drive (each way) over the course of several visits to get the photos. I had to pay for the gas to get there and back, not to mention the many hours I spent editing the pictures, the cost of the camera and lenses I use to take them...The list goes on. I am NOT pointing out anyone here on ARC...Seems like I have enough of a response to start once I have permission from the 160th, but I do know of others who have been more than willing to take "something for nothing".

Aaron

Edited by strikeeagle801
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Still gauging interest, and waiting for approval from the 4th Battalion. The only thing not included is cockpit shots. I was asked not to take any at the public event, so I didn't. You can piece together what the IP's look like from the background of other shots (and look at the MH-47G shots that will be included) but there are no direct shots of the cockpit area.

If the unit asked you not to take shots of the IP's, then why would you post something like that? To me that seems disrespectful to the access you were given (and if they found out about this a good way to kill any future access). I'm pretty sure if the unit PAO saw this they'd kill your request.

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In my opinion, Aaron is not being disrspectful. While he was taking his pics (as a favor to us I might add), I'm sure he was being watched very closely or even had an escort from one of the aircrew. If at anytime, the aircrew thought he was violating OPSEC, I guarantee they would have stopped him.

My Only question would be:

Why they told him no IP pics when there are IP pics of the new aircraft already circulating in the internet?--maybe just individual aircrew preference I guess!

None the less, THANK YOU AARON!!!!!!!!

Tim

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If the unit asked you not to take shots of the IP's, then why would you post something like that? To me that seems disrespectful to the access you were given (and if they found out about this a good way to kill any future access). I'm pretty sure if the unit PAO saw this they'd kill your request.

Any shots of the cockpit area were completely incidental to what I was actually trying to take...As in, I might have gotten a corner of one of the MPD's in a shot (blurry and out of focus I might add) while trying to get a good angle shot of the crash-worthy seats. I did not take ANY directly into the cockpit. The photos I have of the MH-47G's pit were allowed by the Battalion S-3, who was standing right beside me when I took them. Because of the CAAS (Common Avionics Architecture) system, other then a few minor changes, if you have seen the MH-47G's cockpit layout, you have seen the MH-60M's layout. The set up of the MPD's in the MH-60M is well known...It is the same as a standard UH-60M. Four MPD's laid across, with three smaller ones vertically in-between.

I have worked hard to be allowed the access that I have, and to respect their wishes. I do not feel that I went "outside the lines" because I did not directly take shots of the cockpit, and those parts that are in my shots, are publicly-accessed material already. It is the layout of the switches and knobs, and what those say on them, that the Unit was worried about being released.

I feel I should also say, that I sought out the pilot specifically to ask if there were any areas that he didn't want me to photograph. He was a good 15 feet away from the aircraft when I started taking photos. Had I NOT asked, I could have snapped away at whatever I wanted to, without consequence. Also, they were allowing people to sit in the cockpit and take pictures. So I am sure there are plenty of photos floating around Facebook now with 5 year old Jimmy "flying" the helicopter, and a far better shot of the IP's and layout in the background.

Aaron

For example:

63_zpsqluvbnzv.jpg

Edited by strikeeagle801
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The logic "well there's already photos out there what the harm" is thin at best. I've spent time with Superhornet units and a B-2 unit both asked me not to photograph certain things. Now whether or not I photographed those elements no one knows, and I'll never divuldge. They asked me not to, so if I had any none would ever be shared out of respect for their requset. It's not that you caught elements of the IP in your detail shots, or didn't make all sorts of effort to exclude the IP. What was rude/disrespectful was posting on a public internet fora was A) stating you were asked to refrain from shooting the IP and then B) "hint, hint, nudge, nudge, wink, wink" here's how to piece together the IP out of my shots. Sharing with your close buddies via PM, private email that would keep it on the DL would have been no biggie, but declaring that in the open......very unprofessional, even moreso since this is a Tier 1 unit.

It just seems like you are trying to skirt their request, maybe not to the letter of the law but the intent of the law to add value to your product.

Military aviation is a small community, they talk, and your reputation will preceed you.........if I were trying tooth and nail to shoot things that fly professionally I'd be very concerned about that.

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Andyman,

I've got to disagree with you. Aaron asked what he could photograph and complied with all requests from the unit. Furthermore, this was at a public event were it is the unit's responsibility to remove or conceal any sensitive equipment from public view. He is also coordinating with the unit for the release of these photos where they will have the opportunity to redact any sensitive pictures. Finally, just stating that you can piece together a GENERAL overview of the IP from the photos is not disrespectful but just a common sense observation.

Thank you, Aaron, for your pictures and support of the Night Stalker community.

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There was no hint, hint, wink wink to that statement, and I was NOT trying to add value to my product. The product will sell itself, or it won't. It is as simple as that to me. I felt it was necessary to comment on the fact there would be no direct cockpit shots. It would be dishonest to sell a walkaround CD without acknowledging the fact it is not complete. I am sorry that I went about that comment in a way you feel is unprofessional. I can see your point, and it has merit. But it was not my intention.

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I just received clearance from Major Hill at the 160th PAO at Fort Campbell. He says that my photos are fine to be released to the public, so this project is a go for anyone still interested.

Aaron

Great job, Aaron. That's how we should all do projects like this. You can't get more official authorization than that!

Ray

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Okay, after looking at what I have, and after much consideration, I have decided to put a "release date" on this project for mid-August. I feel like I am a little light on walk-around shots of both the MH-60M and MH-47G (especially on the Chinook) and I will be able to get more shots of them both on August 8th. Rather than selling a so-so product now, I feel it is in your best interest as my potential customers, and mine as well, to wait until I can do a more complete job of it. So, I will continue to take PM's to create kind of a "pre order" list, but I will not have a product, and will not take money for them, until mid August.

To let you know a little bit of what I have now, and what I will get, here is a list:

Knighthawk FLIR and mounts/electrical connections for both MH-47G and MH-60M

Crash-worthy gunner/crew chief seats in MH-60M

Weapons mounts and M240/M134 detail shots

Refueling boom and plumbing

Defensive suite...Flare/Chaff dispensers, laser/radar warning receivers, ALQ-144 "disco Ball"

Landing gear

full interior of MH-47G, including cockpit shots (again, cleared by the 160th S-3)

"most" of the interior of the MH-60M (so far, I have not been authorized to take any cockpit shots, but everything else will be covered)

IHIRSS/UES on MH-60M (this depends on what they have on display on the 8th. I have good shots of the IHIRSS already, but not of the UES. Both systems are used on the 4th's aircraft)

IES-47 exhaust suppressors on MH-47G

In other words, I want to do a COMPLETE walk-around of these birds. If there are any other parts of the aircraft you would like specifically, please feel free to contact me, so when I go on the 8th, I have a "hit list" to work from. As an important note, the 4th Battalion only has MH-60M Black Hawks and MH-47G Chinooks on inventory, and the Mikes assigned to JBLM do not carry out the DAP mission. So, unfortunately, there will be no coverage of a Direct Action Penetrator MH-60, nor of the MH-6M Little Bird.

Thank you guys for your interest and support. I look forward to being able to produce a great CD for you guys, one that I hope will be able to help with modeling, and help to spark interest in the awesome group that is the 160th SOAR.

Aaron

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