AMMO MiG-17F in 48th scale

[Gwen Phoenix]

12 hours ago, Laurent said:

Could you please explain what's wrong with the 1/48 HB kit ?

 

Yes, please; I second Mr Laurent's request. I guess you can't affirm that something is wrong about a kit and then not to elaborate on it when somebody asks you to.

 

Thanks in advance, Buckmeister.

Cheers,

 

Gwen

[clumsy]

12 hours ago, Laurent said:

It seems to me something is indeed happening starting from about the middle of the two fences to outside of the outer fence

 

 

 

According to https://m-selig.ae.illinois.edu/ads/aircraft.html, the inner wing is based on TsAGI S-10 airfoil while outer wing is based on TsAGI SR-3 airfoil. I wonder where the transition area is. Anyway perhaps the airfoil is the same on the middle and outer wing but the incidence slightly more negative on the outer wing. Twisted wing.

Great reference, I appreciate your sharing.

and regarding the topic, I will keep an eye as much as I find good angle pictures.

Thank you very much again.

[Buckmeister]

There have been numerous reviews of the Hobby Boss MiG-17F published over the years since it came out in 2008.  I don’t have them memorized.

[ya-gabor]

Here in Part 2 of my video review showing everything else in the box apart from the plastic parts. The instructions, the fantastic Cartograf decal sheet, all the extras of this Limited Edition kit: canopy masks, cockpit 3D decals from Red Fox and 3D printed additional parts, like the ejection seat, wheels, pylons, MARS 2 pods or the pilots helmet.

 

 

Best regards

Gabor

[jonbryon]

On 7/30/2023 at 12:36 AM, Buckmeister said:

There have been numerous reviews of the Hobby Boss MiG-17F published over the years since it came out in 2008.  I don’t have them memorized.

 

I can't think of a negative review (in English at least) for the F model. It was generally a positively received kit. Aftermarket companies released very little in terms of correction sets, including companies that usually go to town on complicated Soviet corrections (like Ciro Models, who did release a resin ventral fin and wheels). Any problems with the HB MiG-17F are not well known and so further information would be appreciated.

 

Problems with the PF, however, have been well-publicised.

 

Jon

[haneto]

The most obvious mistake of Hobbyboss MiG-17F, is the wrong shaped windshield and its frame, just same as many other Trumpeter/hobbyboss aircraft model kits.

Please refer to below photos(copyrights of original authors), and I believe it is quite obvious for anyone's eyes.

 

One of my friend Keigi who passed away last year, built HB MiG-17F back to 2009.

You can also find other minor errors from his modification trace on pictures.

Unfortunately he was not able to rebuild the windshield at the time being, but it was well acknowledged by many Chinese modelers, since we have tons of J-5s in China which is one of the most familiar fighter to us since childhood. 🙂 

 

 

And here is the finished one for your reference.

 

Just my 2 cents.

 

[ya-gabor]

Although this is very early in the story but already there are some aftermarkets which can be used for the AMMO MiG-17 kit.

The Master pitots and guns spring to mind in the first place. They have been around for years, and you can say they are not for this particular kit. No they are not, they are for the MiG-17’s! They are a true scale copy of the original parts on the 17’s, so if the kit part is wrong in size or design it is because the kit designer did something wrong. The set for the MiG-17F is AM-48-090

 

 

One of the things wrong in the AMMO MiG-17F kit is that the decal sheet is missing completely any transfers for the cockpit! Why is that? Have no idea, just hope that in future released they will add this simple decals to the sheets. The plastic instrument panel has some nice raised details of course, but a decal would have been also welcome! To correct this there are already many sets out there. I know Quinta is working on a cockpit, Red Fox has already produced a set (which is also included in the Limited Edition) and  a Czech aftermarket producer has also made some sets. So there is a very wide choice of cockpits out there.

 

But more on this in the video here:

 

 

 

 

Best regards

Gabor

[jonbryon]

On 8/1/2023 at 12:54 PM, haneto said:

The most obvious mistake of Hobbyboss MiG-17F, is the wrong shaped windshield and its frame, just same as many other Trumpeter/hobbyboss aircraft model kits.

Please refer to below photos(copyrights of original authors), and I believe it is quite obvious for anyone's eyes.

 

One of my friend Keigi who passed away last year, built HB MiG-17F back to 2009.

You can also find other minor errors from his modification trace on pictures.

Unfortunately he was not able to rebuild the windshield at the time being, but it was well acknowledged by many Chinese modelers, since we have tons of J-5s in China which is one of the most familiar fighter to us since childhood. 🙂 

 

 

And here is the finished one for your reference.

 

Just my 2 cents.

 

 

Thank you Haneto. And well played, sir, well played 🙂

 

Jon

[Buckmeister]

As we have seen in this thread, and as someone who had studied the real airplane very closely, the wing in the Hobby Boss kit is very wrong.  They completely missed all of the subtle shape changes that Gabor has pointed out.  I was able to do a very thorough examination and walk around of a MiG-17F (actually a J-5) many years ago, and noticed all those shapes.  Very disappointed when the HB kit came out, as it is one of my favorite early jets.  Also as noted, the windshield is wrong.  If you don’t know much about the aircraft, the HB kit is fine, but you can say the same about a lot of HB and Trumpeter kits that are really awful.  

[Laurent]

18 hours ago, Buckmeister said:

As we have seen in this thread, and as someone who had studied the real airplane very closely, the wing in the Hobby Boss kit is very wrong.  They completely missed all of the subtle shape changes that Gabor has pointed out.  I was able to do a very thorough examination and walk around of a MiG-17F (actually a J-5) many years ago, and noticed all those shapes.  Very disappointed when the HB kit came out, as it is one of my favorite early jets.  Also as noted, the windshield is wrong.  If you don’t know much about the aircraft, the HB kit is fine, but you can say the same about a lot of HB and Trumpeter kits that are really awful.  

Jet aircrafts often have wings with subtle shape features. Airfoil of inner wing is often different to outer wing airfoil. I'm neither an aerodynamicist nor an aviation engineer but I guess that it's because of spanwise airflow which leads to different stall speed for inner and outer parts of the wing. CAD designers or master makers aren't aerodynamicists or aviation engineers either. AFAIK neither OEZ (or SMER... I don't know who did the mold design), HB, KP (1/72), AZ (1/72), Hasegawa (1/72), etc designed accurate wings. Unless the model kit producer has access to full manufacturer blueprints the only way to design an aerodynamically accurate wing for a kit is to scan a real aircraft. The 1/72 Airfix case is peculiar because the designer used a LiDAR scan but for some reason the CAD designer ignored the subtleties of the real aircraft wing. I wouldn't be surprised if the vast majority of jet aircraft models proved to be aerodynamically inaccurate... well the model isn't expected to fly anyway.  

Edited August 5, 2023 by Laurent
Typos

[ya-gabor]

When building a kit it is also essential to use some reference materials. In today’s world the internet has a lot of things to offer, but still in some cases people like to hold in hand a book or a publication to read it. Had a look in my archive for books / articles about the MiG-17  which could be of use during building the kit. In the past 40+ years a lot of things ended up on my book shelves.

 

Apart from books there are a lot of monthly publications, aviation magazines. Looking around I dug up some from Jean-Michel Guhl who was the editor of Air Action, later Air Zone and also Replic. Those magazines had some great photography from the best around the world like Patrick Bigel in France, Piotr Butowski from Poland or Katsuhiko Tokunaga from Japan, just to mention few (of the best).   

Here are some of the publication.

 

Here it is:

  

 

Have fun!

 

Best regards

Gabor

Edited August 6, 2023 by ya-gabor

[ya-gabor]

It is interesting that in October a new version of the 49 1366 photoetch set will be released. It is a revision of the initial 49 1366 set which was released in the summer. This is the photoetch set for the AMMO new MiG-17F kit.

 

 

What are the differences? Few pages ago I was writing about the problems with the original etching. Here are some of the solutions that the company came up with:

 

1. Well for start, that really stupid Part 42 was taken off from the fret. Obviously the designer had no idea what he was doing and added a MiG-15 canopy after part into the MiG-17 set. The MiG-17 has a completely different canopy in comparison to its predecessor.

It would have been nice to see the very visible canopy heating tubes as photoetch, it would have been a real help to modellers. But . . .

 

 

 

2. To use the space replacing that canopy part, de-icing tubes were added for the windshield. They are there on the original AMMO plastic parts so you will have to do some careful surgery to get them off before adding the etched item. Remember not to mist the clear parts with cyanoacrylate glue fumes.   

 

3. The base for the Baria antenna (Part 71) was removed completely, the reason is simple. The Part 72 (base for the antenna) was a complete fantasy item from the designer. No such rectangular thing exist on real aircraft! The kit itself has the correct base for the antenna, all you need to do it to add the blade antenna.

 

4. The flaps had another design problem, where it was not really thought through what will happen when you build up the flap. So unfortunately the external detailing ended up on the invisible inner side. What one needed was to reverse the production films for the flaps and by doing so end up with half etched surface rivet details on the same side of the etched fret. This way when you bend over close to 180 degrees the two sides of the flap, you will end up correctly with external details on both the underside (bottom of the flap) and on its visible inner surface.    

 

 

See that on the original 49 1366 the half etched rivet details (for the internal side of the flap) were on the reverse side of the etching.

 

 

Its not clear from the just released images if the company has made changes to Part 4, a small radio box which had a faulty design. It was in the first geometry classes in elementary school that the designer should have learned that on a rectangle the opposites sides are of the same size. Here in set 49 1366 they were not, so the modeller could not “close” the box properly.

 

 

There are other problem also on set 49 1366 but from the new images it is not clear if they were addressed by the company. I don’t think so.

 

How will the modeller be able to differentiate which 49 1366 is he buying? Unfortunately only when you receive it, you will see.

I am sure several series of the set were already produced of the original version and they went on sale or are still on sale!

 

Best regards

Gabor

[dai phan]

Hi all,

 

Just placed an order for 2 through 1001 hobbies. Shipping for both kits to USA is 16.90 which is way more reasonable than from Ammo site. Dai 

[Buckmeister]

11 hours ago, dai phan said:

Hi all,

 

Just placed an order for 2 through 1001 hobbies. Shipping for both kits to USA is 16.90 which is way more reasonable than from Ammo site. Dai 

 

Do you have a link for that?  I cannot find the Ammo kit on their website. I tried about six different search terms, and I found all kinds of MiG-17 related stuff, but not the kit.

[dai phan]

1 hour ago, Buckmeister said:

 

Do you have a link for that?  I cannot find the Ammo kit on their website. I tried about six different search terms, and I found all kinds of MiG-17 related stuff, but not the kit.

It is 1001 hobbies in  France. Dai

[GeneK]

8 hours ago, dai phan said:

It is 1001 hobbies in  France. Dai

 

Try this.

 

Gene K

[dai phan]

3 hours ago, GeneK said:

 

Try this.

 

Gene K

That's it. I ordered 2 kits and only 16.90 shipping cost to USA. Dai 

Edited August 29, 2023 by dai phan

[dai phan]

Hi all,

 

My order (2 of them) is due to be delivered on 9/14/23. Looks like this will be my next project. Dai 

[ya-gabor]

4 hours ago, dai phan said:

Hi all,

 

My order (2 of them) is due to be delivered on 9/14/23. Looks like this will be my next project. Dai 

 

Good luck with it! Which version will you do?

Have fun!

 

Best regards

Gabor

[dai phan]

21 minutes ago, ya-gabor said:

 

Good luck with it! Which version will you do?

Have fun!

 

Best regards

Gabor

Either North Vietnamese or the end of service Chinese J-5s. I have a decal sheet from Frontpenny with very nice red slogans on the fuse. The J5 is Chinese build F version right? Dai 

Edited September 12, 2023 by dai phan

[ya-gabor]

Hi Dai,

 

Never studied the Chinese J-5 version but the AMMO kit should be close enough. There are some not to far away in Albania, but in the past did not have the chance to see them close up.

 

One has to look at the subject he is building because the Spanish kit is very specific in areas like for example the ejection seat. In this set only the late “Curtain” type seat is included.

 

Nice decal sheet!!  Never heard of it.

 

Best regards

Gabor

[dai phan]

3 hours ago, ya-gabor said:

Hi Dai,

 

Never studied the Chinese J-5 version but the AMMO kit should be close enough. There are some not to far away in Albania, but in the past did not have the chance to see them close up.

 

One has to look at the subject he is building because the Spanish kit is very specific in areas like for example the ejection seat. In this set only the late “Curtain” type seat is included.

 

Nice decal sheet!!  Never heard of it.

 

Best regards

Gabor

I think J5 is the license built Mig 17F. I always buy 2 decal sheet as for back up but I could only found one. It is a rare sheet with unknown decal company. Dai 

[Curt B]

On 8/29/2023 at 7:45 AM, dai phan said:

That's it. I ordered 2 kits and only 16.90 shipping cost to USA. Dai 

Hey All,

 

Looks like this kit is now available from at least one US hobby store, Andy's Hobby Headquarters.  $69.99 for the premium edition, and $10.00 for shipping (plus a few $$ for tax, if applicable).  Just in case anyone cares.

Edited September 15, 2023 by Curt B

[P-38 guy]

17 hours ago, Curt B said:

Hey All,

 

Looks like this kit is now available from at least one US hobby store, Andy's Hobby Headquarters.  $69.99 for the premium edition, and $10.00 for shipping (plus a few $$ for tax, if applicable).  Just in case anyone cares.

Thanks for the heads up. I just ordered one of the regular versions.

 

Mike

[Curt B]

14 hours ago, P-38 guy said:

Thanks for the heads up. I just ordered one of the regular versions.

 

Mike

You're welcome, Mike.  My premium version is coming tomorrow from Andy's.

 

Since I'm getting mine, I have a question.  It seems like all the models of these early Soviet jets are finished in a very 'uniform' metal finish color.  I'm wondering if there are any photos with a decent resolution of actual MiG-17s back in their operational days that clearly show what the finish looked like?  I was looking at older posts in various threads, and I realized that I'd been assuming that these planes were left in natural metal.  Apparently, this is not correct.  I've been reading that they were painted with some kind of paint with aluminum powder infused into the mixture.  Maybe that's why they don't look like U.S. planes with weathered natural metal panels.  However, it also sounds like various panels may have been manufactured and painted with different formulas of paint, then assembled, so there may be cases where some panels actually do look somewhat different from the overall airplane.  Are there any decent pictures that show these variations?  Thanks for any help.

Edited September 16, 2023 by Curt B
Revised the post entirely due to new info.