Issues with HLJ re: non direct shipping and undisclosed COD charges

[clifft]

Posting this on behalf of a friend.  Bill told me of his recent experience with HLJ.  It left me dumbfounded and not knowing what to say or make of it.  I order from Plaza Japan every now and then and have never experienced what he experience with his recent order from HLJ:

Quote

Has anyone else here bought from HLJ lately?  I ordered some kits and when they arrived, there was an additional COD charge of $15.50.  HLJ tried to pass it off as Custom's fees, it was not.  Actually, I found HLJ to be quite deceitful with their responses over this.  After some digging around, turns out that instead of shipping my package directly to me (as one would expect), they had it shipped to Ontario and then it was forwarded, at additional expense, to me in my Province.  I refused the package and they can eat those fees.

 

I am peeved for several reasons over this, primarily that HLJ did not disclose that they were doing this and that they outright lied to me regarding the COD charges.  When I pay shipping to have a package sent to me, I expect that it is coming directly to my address and not some intermediary 3rd party who is then going to add on additional shipping costs.  If HLJ would have been honest enough to have disclosed this on their website or at the time I placed my order, I wouldn't have placed the order.  But to try to claim that the COD charges were Custom's fees that just adds to this.  When I contacted HLJ, I included pictures of the COD label, so there is no way that they could mistake it for Custom's fees.

 

Just curious if anyone else here has had a similar experience with HLJ and if this is their modus operandi now?

 

[A-10 LOADER]

I don't order from them a lot but, I have ordered things from time to time and, I've never experienced this with them before. Just like everything else today, you really have to pay attention.

Steve

[Dave Williams]

I don’t think this is something you’d see for them shipping to the US.  The US doesn’t impose customs fees on models and model accessories.  Sounds like the OP’s friend is in Canada.  Is he using the same shipping methods with HLJ as he was with Plaza Japan?

Edited August 30, 2023 by Dave Williams

[phantom]

Custom fees for Canada are hit and miss. Most of the time its nothing, but my last trade cost me $70 in customs fees.

[clifft]

I'll ask Bill what shipping method he used.  But I can definitely say that this was not a case of Custom's fees.  In fact, this one slipped right through their hands.  He showed me a pic of the label and it said COD charge, but there was no further explanation.  HLJ (or any merchant) is not going to ship goods until full payment is received and, in my experience, you always pay the shipping at the same time.

 

Definitely a head scratcher...

[Dave Roof]

Just something to consider. This may not be the fault of HLJ. When I ship orders overseas, they are first shipped to two different locations here in the US, then sent to their overseas address. In each case, there are two tracking numbers generated. The first number is from my location to the distribution hub. The second number is from the hub to the final destination. When I create shipping labels through PayPal or stamps . com, there are no other options. Meaning, I can't ship directly to the persons address. All packages go through the hub first.

 

This may be what happened here. While HLJ shipped it to him, it could have gone through a hub first (Ontario in this case). It may be this hub that charged the COD fee and not HLJ.

 

Now, I am not saying with 100% certainty this is what happened. However, in my experience shipping orders overseas, I find it very probable. 

[DONG]

As Dave said it has nothing to do with HLJ.

 

The $15.50 is a brokerage fee from the carrier (DHL or Fed-ex) it has nothing to do with HLJ.  Anything shipped from overseas by DHL, Fed-Ex or UPS has their brokerage fee added.

 

I'm in Ontario and Toronto is the main hub for those companies. I buy from Hannant's usually and pick Royal Mail to ship as it goes through customs to Canada Post.

 

Don

 

[DONG]

12 hours ago, phantom said:

Custom fees for Canada are hit and miss. Most of the time its nothing, but my last trade cost me $70 in customs fees.

 

Actually you got dinked for taxes and a small handling fee from CP because whoever filled out the Custom form probably put full price on the kits and didn't mark it as a gift.

 

Marking it as a gift is not against the rules. 

 

[Model-Junkie]

It appears COD is not fully understood by some folks.  COD stands for Cash on Delivery or Collect on Delivery, it is a method of paying for the goods at the time of delivery versus paying before being shipped out.  The courier did not explain or fill out the form correctly, and by refusing the package the buyer will most likely have to pay for shipping from Japan a second time.  

 

 

 

 

[Dave Williams]

Regardless of whether it’s called COD or not, I don’t think it has anything to do with HLJ.  That extra fee isn’t being collected on behalf of HLJ or being sent back to them.  You paid them for the items, and they wouldn’t have sent them out if they weren’t paid for.  You also paid them for shipping, and from that, HLJ paid the carrier for shipping, and the carrier wouldn’t have accepted the package if it wasn’t paid for.  In other words, the package wouldn’t even have left Japan if everything was paid for on HLJ’s end, and it wouldn’t have left HLJ’s warehouse unless you had paid every penny that they wanted.

 

Obviously, once it reaches your country, HLJ doesn’t have any control over whatever fees your government entities and local carriers choose to impose on packages sent in from outside of the country.  That money isn’t going to HLJ.  As far as HLJ maybe making a mistake on the customs form, I guess it’s possible, but HLJ has been sending packages to Canada and all over the world for decades, and they probably know how to fill out a customers form.  It’s probably filled out by software from your exact order, and not just some guy with a pen filling out a paper form.

[Dave Roof]

1 hour ago, Model-Junkie said:

It appears COD is not fully understood by some folks.  COD stands for Cash on Delivery or Collect on Delivery, it is a method of paying for the goods at the time of delivery versus paying before being shipped out.  The courier did not explain or fill out the form correctly, and by refusing the package the buyer will most likely have to pay for shipping from Japan a second time.  

 

 

 

 

 

We know what COD means. If you read his post, he clearly states there was an ADDITIONAL COD charge added. This implies he had already paid for shipping when he placed his order with HLJ and the added charge was for the package going from Ontario to his address. 

[Model-Junkie]

21 minutes ago, Dave Roof said:

 

We know what COD means. If you read his post, he clearly states there was an ADDITIONAL COD charge added. This implies he had already paid for shipping when he placed his order with HLJ and the added charge was for the package going from Ontario to his address. 

I think what I wrote is not being understood.  This is not a COD situation, the additional cost is either due to taxes or fees and the courier did not correctly explain the situation.  I find it very unlikely the extra cost goes back to HLJ.

Edited August 30, 2023 by Model-Junkie

[utley]

Ive had some packages that required an additional courier to be delivered simply because the postal service had to outsource the package to a 3rd party because of a lack of manpower. However, the few and far between times they've had to do that didnt require me to pay an additional fee because that falls on the shipping companies issue not mine. If the service requires a courier, they charge up front for that. Cant ever say Ive ran into a COD issue, hell Ive never even had to deal with customs, and Ive purchased from HLJ many times for many things. I would talk to the delivering agency and ask why they felt the need to issue a COD when shipping was due up front. From what it sounds, it very well could have been an import & customs fee; Ive never experienced that before. The buyer absolutely is responsible for that fee, not the shipping agency and certainly not the shipper.

 

Now, is Ontario a port of entry?

Edited August 30, 2023 by utley

[clifft]

As I understand it, Ontario is a port of entry for things coming from Europe.  Asia, is handled through Vancouver on the West Coast.

 

From having looked at the shipping label, a courier was used.  It was my understanding that the package was supposed to be shipped using the mail system.  So how a courier even became involved in the transport of this, I really do not know.  All I know is that someone was trying to bilk me out of an additional $15.50 without offering any explanation.

 

I just re-read on HLJ's website for the option that I chose and HLJ references Japan Post.  This means that the package should have went straight into Canada Post's hands upon arrival in Canada.  Where a courier company go involved I have no idea.  The delivery attempt was by Canada Post and when I went to pick up the package, it was at a Canada Post outlet.

 

In any event, this whole thing has been odd and the lack of explanation from anyone HLJ / Canada Post has left a foul taste in my mouth.

 

Thanks to all who have shared their thoughts on this. I appreciate it.

[clifft]

After posting my last comment, I decided to give Canada Post another go.

 

I just got off the phone with Canada Post and they confirmed that it would be the shipper who would and can only be the ones to add COD charges.  So unless Canada Post doesn't know what they are talking about...

 

That conversation with Canada Post brings this full circle for me.  I had a gut feeling that HLJ was not being honest with me when I was asking about the COD charge - they denied any knowledge of it.  The conversation with Canada Post says otherwise.

 

I am running with this.  No loss to me if I do not ever deal with HLJ again.  I can not and will not deal or associate with someone who isn't honest with me.  It's worse when it is a company who has the reputation that HLJ has.  In my mind, after this, their reputation is not deserved.

[habu2]

I don’t often order from HLJ but, on the many occasions I have, I’ve never had an issue with shipping charges. 

[arnobiz]

Another weird thing with HLJ P&P is that when I order something that appears "In stock - 3-5 days" I am only given the option to put it in the "Private Warehouse" and no shipping estimate is provided.

 

The item is not charged right away but will be charged once available, BEFORE I know and agree with the shipping costs. Do others have the same problem or did I miss something (which is very possible!)? I'm a bit reluctant to place an order not knowing how much shipping will cost obviously!

 

Thanks,

 

Arnaud

[ST0RM]

4 hours ago, arnobiz said:

The item is not charged right away but will be charged once available, BEFORE I know and agree with the shipping costs. Do others have the same problem or did I miss something (which is very possible!)? I'm a bit reluctant to place an order not knowing how much shipping will cost obviously!

Experienced this very thing! The cost of the kit was excellent, but when I later found out what I was charged in shipping, it brought the price up to what I could have gotten locally. So that was my last time using HLJ.

[Dave Roof]

On 8/29/2023 at 7:42 PM, clifft said:

Posting this on behalf of a friend.  Bill told me of his recent experience with HLJ.

 

On 8/30/2023 at 1:29 AM, clifft said:

I'll ask Bill what shipping method he used.

 

20 hours ago, clifft said:

All I know is that someone was trying to bilk me out of an additional $15.50 without offering any explanation.

 

I just re-read on HLJ's website for the option that I chose and HLJ references Japan Post.

 

20 hours ago, clifft said:

After posting my last comment, I decided to give Canada Post another go.

 

I just got off the phone with Canada Post and they confirmed that it would be the shipper who would and can only be the ones to add COD charges.  So unless Canada Post doesn't know what they are talking about...

 

That conversation with Canada Post brings this full circle for me.  I had a gut feeling that HLJ was not being honest with me when I was asking about the COD charge - they denied any knowledge of it.  The conversation with Canada Post says otherwise.

 

I am running with this.  No loss to me if I do not ever deal with HLJ again.  I can not and will not deal or associate with someone who isn't honest with me.  It's worse when it is a company who has the reputation that HLJ has.  In my mind, after this, their reputation is not deserved.

 

 

So, was it your 'friend' Bill or was it you?

 

Gotta say, I'm smelling a little bit of bullshiite.........

Edited August 31, 2023 by Dave Roof

[Model-Junkie]

5 hours ago, arnobiz said:

Another weird thing with HLJ P&P is that when I order something that appears "In stock - 3-5 days" I am only given the option to put it in the "Private Warehouse" and no shipping estimate is provided.

 

The item is not charged right away but will be charged once available, BEFORE I know and agree with the shipping costs. Do others have the same problem or did I miss something (which is very possible!)? I'm a bit reluctant to place an order not knowing how much shipping will cost obviously!

 

Thanks,

 

Arnaud

 

 

HLJ only shows shipping costs of true in stock items, I do not recall for in stock 3-5 days items but they do not estimate shipping for pre-order items.  Once you start using the private warehouse option it becomes harder to estimate shipping.  Buying from Japan was cheap pre-covid but even with the low Japanese Yen right now, shipping costs are very high.  

[Alternative 4]

I have only ordered from HLJ once, about 2 years ago. Price of the kits was great and they worked out much cheaper (even with shipping) than buying locally. Shipping was

through Japan post and delivered by NZ post without extra cost.

 

More recently their prices have become out of reach. Eduard kits for example seem to retail at 1.5x the cost they did a year ago. Maybe they have had a change of ownership or business strategy?

[utley]

22 minutes ago, Alternative 4 said:

 

More recently their prices have become out of reach. Eduard kits for example seem to retail at 1.5x the cost they did a year ago. Maybe they have had a change of ownership or business strategy?

inflation. prices started surging around the time Ukraine was invaded, which was around a year or so ago.

[Inquisitor]

19 hours ago, arnobiz said:

Another weird thing with HLJ P&P is that when I order something that appears "In stock - 3-5 days" I am only given the option to put it in the "Private Warehouse" and no shipping estimate is provided.

 

The item is not charged right away but will be charged once available, BEFORE I know and agree with the shipping costs. Do others have the same problem or did I miss something (which is very possible!)? I'm a bit reluctant to place an order not knowing how much shipping will cost obviously!

 

Thanks,

 

Arnaud

Those products are not located in their main warehouse. They're either located in the warehouses of their subsidiary Beaver company or other distributors from which they have direct access to inventory. Hence when you order those items they charge till they are secured and moved to their main premises and the shipping calculator does not give shipping quotes for those, only real in stock products in their main warehouse.

Edited September 1, 2023 by Inquisitor

[arnobiz]

On 9/1/2023 at 3:43 AM, Inquisitor said:

Those products are not located in their main warehouse. They're either located in the warehouses of their subsidiary Beaver company or other distributors from which they have direct access to inventory. Hence when you order those items they charge till they are secured and moved to their main premises and the shipping calculator does not give shipping quotes for those, only real in stock products in their main warehouse.

I understand this, and I understand it's difficult to estimate shipping for a brand new product they never had before. What I don't understand is why it is not possible to get a shipping estimate for a 30+ year-old Hasegawa kit they must have sold hundreds of in the past decades.