gtypecanare Posted February 24, 2007 Share Posted February 24, 2007 The Tamiya F-16CJ will not disappoint you. If I can get the go ahead, I'll scan the instructions from our sample. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Darren Roberts Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 (edited) Wow....The Hasegawa kit IS actually a slouch when you compare it to what's being produced today. Its just better technology....VHS vs. DVD, V-8 vs. slant 6, 8 pound cell phones vs. 6oz. Its inaccurate in more than 2 or 3 places, it is one of the the worst engineered kits in their entire line, it fits mediocre at best and you still can't build the most important variant accurately from the box (though neither can you with the Tamiya kit). Its like when somebody dies and you start to feel all nostalgic and say things about how good they were, when they really weren't. To label it junk.....which not a single soul in this thread did BTW, is not accurate, but neither is it accurate to compare early 80s kit engineering with 2006 and in any way conclude that they are similar. Hasegawa should have updated this kit when they did the F-2s, but they didn't. They should update their F-4 series, but they won't. Cyrus Tan and Kelly Quirk could make award winning models from Starfix kits. If the point is to say that the kit makes no difference, then we should all be getting similar results with the Monogram 190s that we do with the Eduard ones. I've seen PLENTY of beautiful, award winning models of F-16s from Hasegawa....and made a couple of my own, but I'm sure not going to feel nostalgic about never having to wrassle that particular kit again. I dumped all my Hasegawa kits the second I got the barest whisper of info on Tamiya....even my Sufa The nice part is, for those of you who are going to continue to wrassle that kit, there sure will be a bunch of them around at low-ball prices. Seems like win-win to me. Not accurately. Can't do a block 40/42 OTB, can't do an accurate block 30/32 either. Greetings Scott! I don't think it's necessarily nostalgia that people like the Hasegawa kits. You've got to remember that the Viper is your love, much like the Tomcat is my love. For you, all the little details are extremely important. If they aren't there, or aren't correct, than the kit gets downgraded in your view. From an average Joe's standpoint, there's nothing wrong with the Hasegawa Vipers at all. They look great when built up, and the fit isn't that bad. I've built a couple, so I'm allowed to say that. If you want an ill-fitting kit as an example, try the Testor's B-2. Now THAT doesn't fit! The Tamiya kit will most assuredly be better because it's modern technology. I don't think anyone was saying the Hasegawa kit would be better. I think they were simply saying that the Hasegawa kit will still do the trick for most modelers. It's also a price issue for some. I still build the Monogram F-14 because I can do a whole lot more of them than I can the Hasegawa kit. I will eventually get a Tamiya Viper, but I'll wait until they come out with a Block 30, as I have no interest in building any of the higher blocks. For me, I have absolutely no clue what's wrong with the Hasegawa Viper. I know enough to put the correct engine and tails on for what I'm doing, but that's about it. Everything else looks just fine to me. I know your frustration, though. It's like when someone puts F-14A squadron markings on an F-14B or D. It drives me batty! Edited February 25, 2007 by Darren Roberts Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dave Williams Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 Its inaccurate in more than 2 or 3 places, it is one of the the worst engineered kits in their entire line, it fits mediocre at best and you still can't build the most important variant accurately from the box (though neither can you with the Tamiya kit). What is the most important variant? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Darren Roberts Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 (edited) No, its really not that at all......its about engineering and fit. If a company were to do a 1/48 F-14 that was engineered well so you didn't have to just beat it into submission, got the nose profile right, had all the different beaver tails and whatnot, you'd flip out and I'd have to revive you :) I don't know many people who really enjoy beating a kit down and making it their beotch. For sure Hasegawa is a vast improvement over what was available before, and the same thing is happening now.....the technology that was used to produce the ESCI and Monogram 1/48 F-16s wasn't nearly as good as what was used to make the Hasegawa kit, and the same is true now. Molding technology has improved leaps and bounds since the early 80s, and the new kits reflect that. Can you make an award winning model from an ESCI kit? Yup....I've seen it....but not this guy! Price is another matter entirely, but the point is all the "Haseawa is good enough for me" is moot because its not as if somebody is going to come ****** up all the Hasegawa's and you just can't compare a kit made almost 25 years ago to one from today, just like you can't compare one made 40 years ago to one made 25 years ago. Ewww, the ESCI and Monogram kits. Now I'm going to have nightmares! I absolutely agree that the Tamiya kit is going to be gorgeous. For this Viper challenged builder, though, the Hasegawa kit works for me too. I only have 2 Hasegawa Vipers in my stash anyway, so it's not like I'm stuck with a bunch of them. Now Tomcats would be another matter! BTW, there's nothing wrong with a good beating now and then...um...uh....I've got to go now..... :lol: Edited February 25, 2007 by Darren Roberts Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jefropas Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 I can't keep quiet anymore, my .02, the Hasegawa kit was great for what it represents, but I lost the awe status on it when RoG came out with their 72nd Viper, it beat the Hasegawa 48th kit itself hands down, and still does in every way I can think, and that is a 72nd scale kit. I will make the change as soon as the Tamiya kit comes out, but like Darren said regarding his Mono F-14's, I will still build Hasegawa versions because they will be cheap and, after a dozen or so for me, easy...Pun intended. They are also familiar to me after 20 years, I don't even use the directions anymore(a miracle for me). Anyway, I've been saving the $ for a month, so I'm good for 2 righ off the line. Who mentioned he had a preview at his hobby shop, pony up the pics dude!!! Jeff Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mmaker Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 Also,think the possibility of a scale down kit in 1/72!!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jmel Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 You can't do an accurate modern block 30/32 or 40/42 OTB from Hasegawa. You can't do an accurate block 50/52 from the box, either, right? The one and only time I've ever built a 1/48 Hase Viper, it didn't include the larger main gear door actuators. And the cockpit.........wow. I've only built one in my lifetime, and will never build it again. I rarely even build in 1/48, and I'm excited to be done with the Hasegawa. Jake Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SebastianP Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 It's like when someone puts F-14A squadron markings on an F-14B or D. It drives me batty! Heh. To me, that's just wishful thinking or whiffery - perfectly acceptable. If the cold war hadn't fizzled when it did, chances are we'd still have the Wolfpack, Sundowners and original Jolly Rogers , all flying the D unless an even better model had come around. Now, regarding the main debate here, I think it's safe to say that the Hase kit will still be around for a while longer - Tamiya doesn't do "variant" releases very often, so we're unlikely to see a Block 40 or even a twin seater for a very long time. IIRC, there's still no twin-seater for the 1/32 model, right? The Hase does have some glaring problems though - didn't someone measure the thing against some drawings and conclude that the tail is a centimeter short or something like that? I remember there being a stink about someone daring to complain about it. In any event, I'm personally sticking to the Revell 1/72 kit for the time being - these, I can actually fit on my shelves, and they're buildable as nearly anything OOB, or at least with some parts swapping between versions. I do hope they'll release one with a spine and CFT's though... SP Quote Link to post Share on other sites
LanceB Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 27 GBP!?! Holy Guano, Batman, that works out to about 6400 JPY for a 3800 JPY (retail) kit! Talk about highway robbery. Assuming what I hear about Tamiya's price structure for their overseas dealers is correct, and from what I know about shipping stuff to Europe, they should be arriving at the distributor's warehouse for no more than 60% of Japanese retail, probably more like 50%. Still, that is better than ads I have seen from the UK for Tamiya products where they just stuck a decimal point in after the first two digits, (ie 18 GBP for an 1800 JPY kit), thereby automatically doubline the price. <_< My 2 yen, FWIW, buy online from Japan. 3800 + about 1000 in shipping = 4800 JPY = about 20 GBP. Sure, you will have to pay some VAT, but I hear it is not too bad for model kits, and surely it can't go to 35%, which is where it would have to be to push the price up to 27 GBP. I hear 17.5% is the magic number, but perhaps that is for shops? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Andrew D. the Jolly Rogers guy Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 It's like when someone puts F-14A squadron markings on an F-14B or D. It drives me batty! ...you mean as a what-if, or out of ignorance? <_< Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SebastianP Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 My 2 yen, FWIW, buy online from Japan. 3800 + about 1000 in shipping = 4800 JPY = about 20 GBP. Sure, you will have to pay some VAT, but I hear it is not too bad for model kits, and surely it can't go to 35%, which iswhere it would have to be to push the price up to 27 GBP. I hear 17.5% is the magic number, but perhaps that is for shops? In Sweden, that's 20% import duties, plus 25% VAT (effectively 50% total). I remember paying 40€ for a kit from HLJ, plus another 15€ postage, and then having to pay 20€ in VAT and duties at the post office to take delivery. Not doing that again if it can be helped. For the most part, buying kits in the shop works out cheaper... SP Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Chappie Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 (edited) I was referring to big stuff when talking "accuracy"....like HUDs, wheels and scab plates, but yeah the door actuators are block 30 vintage, and the cockpits are all inaccurate if you REALLY want to nit pick :D While I DO get anal about markings and proper weapons loads, I don't go crazy about wheels and cockpits. The wheels in the non-CJs kits suit me fine for Block 32 and older. And as long as I have an A/B-model cockpit in an A/B-model and ditto with C/Ds I'm happy. But the markings and weapons loads must be dead-on accurate!!! A super-duper detailed F-16ADF loaded with a Sniper pod and four GBU-10s would make me cringe! :lol: Chappie Edited February 26, 2007 by Chappie Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dmanton300 Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 27 GBP!?! Holy Guano, Batman, that works out to about 6400 JPY for a 3800 JPY (retail) kit! Talk about highway robbery. Assuming what I hear about Tamiya's price structure for their overseas dealers is correct, and from what I know about shipping stuff to Europe, they should be arriving at the distributor's warehouse for no more than 60% of Japanese retail, probably more like 50%.Still, that is better than ads I have seen from the UK for Tamiya products where they just stuck a decimal point in after the first two digits, (ie 18 GBP for an 1800 JPY kit), thereby automatically doubline the price. My 2 yen, FWIW, buy online from Japan. 3800 + about 1000 in shipping = 4800 JPY = about 20 GBP. Sure, you will have to pay some VAT, but I hear it is not too bad for model kits, and surely it can't go to 35%, which is where it would have to be to push the price up to 27 GBP. I hear 17.5% is the magic number, but perhaps that is for shops? As a side note Lance, I've been ordering from Japan to the UK for eight years or so, (R-10 is my retailer of choice from Japan) and in all that time have been hit for VAT/Customs etc. exactly ONCE! Models don't tend to attract attention on the way through because of their (usually) fairly small package size and light weight. I don't even factor import duties in to my ordering these days, such is the rarity of being gouged by the government (as if they don't have enough of my money already!) My first two Tamiya Vipers have been on pre-order for a while, happy in the knowledge that even with postage I'll be making a big saving over UK prices. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Darren Roberts Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 ...you mean as a what-if, or out of ignorance? Out of ignorance. I LOVE what-if's! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jmel Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 What is the most important variant? That will soon be a moot question as the USAF continues CCIP and CUPID. All blocks will have the same capabilities. Jake Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JimC Posted February 27, 2007 Share Posted February 27, 2007 That will soon be a moot question as the USAF continues CCIP and CUPID. All blocks will have the same capabilities.Jake Jake, I know what CCIP is, but what's CUPID, and what does it entail if you can say. Thanks, Jim Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Andrew D. the Jolly Rogers guy Posted February 27, 2007 Share Posted February 27, 2007 Out of ignorance. I LOVE what-if's! :lol: Rock on, Wayne! :D Quote Link to post Share on other sites
habu2 Posted February 27, 2007 Share Posted February 27, 2007 I know what CCIP is, but what's CUPID, and what does it entail if you can say. I'm not Jake, but... CCIP is an upgrade path for USAF Blocks 40/42/50/52. CUPID is a similar upgrade path for USAF Block 25/30/32. The specifics for each vary, even between CCIP for 40/42 vs 50/52. I believe both CUPID and CCIP upgrades for all blocks mentioned include MMC & CMFDS at a minimum. Clear as mud? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Av8fan Posted February 27, 2007 Share Posted February 27, 2007 Hmm, Nice looking kit, but, and this is just me being anti seam filling why the split on the top fuselage where the wings start? Yeah I know, it hasn't even been test fitted yet but still. I would have preferred the top and bottom to be 1 piece each. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Av8fan Posted February 27, 2007 Share Posted February 27, 2007 Hi Dave, thanks for that. The 2 seater didn't even enter into my thought process, and it makes perfect sense even when I don't. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
FrankC Posted February 27, 2007 Share Posted February 27, 2007 I have been wrestling with a Hasegawa kit, and though I wish I had waited for the Tamiya offering before attempting a block 40/50. I am not disappointed in the kit so far. I'll finish this one up, but probably won't get the Tamiya kit until they release a block 30/52 version as I would prefer to not have to do so much work to make the intake and gear bays on the next one. The other great thing about the Tamiya kit (that I can see from the photos of the test shots) is that it has the LAU-128 launchers, AMRAAM, and AIM-9X missles. THat parts tree will be worth buying on it's own! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Pete "Pig" Fleischmann Posted February 27, 2007 Share Posted February 27, 2007 As a Viper Guy, I have built "a few" Hasegawa kits, and like Jake, I am happy to be done with that kit. I simply know more about the Viper than I do other jets, so I am more aware of this kits shortcomings than the next guy..Don't ask me about an F-14 kit-'cause I don't know! so when a new kit comes along that makes it easier for me to build a nice model of my jet-I'm happy! And, if I'm not bogged down with resin intakes, panel lines, gear struts, gear doors, resin cockpits etc..I will have the time to build more of them, because they will fly off the workbench! Now where is my 32nd scale T-38!? Trumpeter-are you listening? Regards, pig Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JimC Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 As a Viper Guy, I have built "a few" Hasegawa kits, and like Jake, am happy to be done with that kit... so I am more aware of this kits shortcomings than the next guy.. And, if I'm not bogged down with resin intakes, panel lines, gear struts, gear doors, resin cockpits etc..I will have the time to build more of them, because they will fly off the workbench! Pete, Can you elaborate on what's "wrong" with the Has kits? I have a 1/48 Has F-16CJ, Block 50 that I recently started. I have a Black Box cockpit, Aires wheel wells and a CE (I think) seamless intake. My problem, though, is mating the Aires nose gear well with the seamless intake. Maybe I should just build it OOB and call it good! (I have two (2) of the Tamiya 1/48 Vipers on pre-order.) Best regards, Jim Quote Link to post Share on other sites
habu2 Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 Can you elaborate on what's "wrong" with the Has kits? Here are the things I am aware of: * instrument glareshield deliberately undersized to fit under closed canopy * this also forces the front instrument panel to be too small & inaccurate * vertical stabilizer shape is not quite right * refueling door scribing is not quite right * for the B/D kits the rear instrument panel is wrong, it is a Block 01/05/10 panel, the B kit is a Block 15 * for the "big mouth" kits, the main gear doors do not include the correct door retraction braces for the bulged doors I don't understand why people are slamming the Hasegawa kits. Yes they are old but they are leagues better than any other kit now available. As far as updating the molds, only Hasegawa, Revell and Italeri have updated their kits. The plethora of others (Entex, Otaki, Esci, Hobbycraft, Monogram, Academy...) are unchanged over the years/decades. Yes the Tamiya kit will be better. It benefits from 25 years of kit design and technology over the Hasegawa. Go compare your 2007 Lexus to your top of the line 1982 Toyota and tell me why Toyota is at fault for not keeping the '82 model up to date. I'll buy a Tamiya kit but I won't be getting rid of my Hasegawas. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gtypecanare Posted March 2, 2007 Share Posted March 2, 2007 (edited) Well, some good news is the wait is almost over. Got word that we should see this kit in the US within 2 weeks. Here are some pages from the instruction manual. Edited March 2, 2007 by gtypecanare Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.