Sabre Wings Demystified

[Jennings]

Here's a quick reference guide to Sabre wings. This is not intended to be a be-all and end-all discussion of the subject, but it gives you a quick glance reference to the most common styles of wing fitted to Sabres of various types. On those with slatted wings, I've shown the slats deployed for emphasis. The '6-3' leading edge is shown shaded in blue, as is the 12" tip extension on the "F-40" wing. There were a few early F-86Hs that had the "F-40" wing with a hard leading edge and the mid-span fence, but they were quickly retrofitted with slats because the hard wing was so dicey at low speeds.

Note that many early a/c were later retrofitted with the hard '6-3' wing. This includes F-86Es and early Fs, and Canadair Mks. 2 through 4. The Canadair Mk.5 and early Mk.6s were built with the hard wing, and later Mk.6s with the slatted wing unique to the Mk.6. Earlier Mk.6s were quickly retrofitted with the slatted wing when it became available for the same reason mentioned above.

Hope this helps!

J

Edited March 1, 2015 by Jennings

[Murph]

Jennings,

Good info, thanks for posting.

Regards,

Murph

[asvennevik]

Brilliant, thank you.

In addition: The "F-40" was fitted or retrofitted to other Sabres. The F-35s as supplied to the RNoAF (Norwegian airforce) had the "F-40" wing, as did some/all the F-86F Sabres supplied to Pakistan.

The F-86K was also fitted/retrofitted with the "F-40" wing. The first F-86Ks had the original short chord wing if I remember correctly.

Anders

Edited March 15, 2009 by asvennevik

[rcaf_100]

Super! Thanks Jennings!

Quick Question:

According to your illustration, would I be right in assuming that I could build (just talking wings here, I know there's other differences) a Canadair Sabre 2 and a F-86A (future projects) from the 1/72 Academy F-86E/Hobbycraft Sabre 4?

Just curious...I know the difference between a F-30 and F-40 style wing, but the earlier styles get me mixed up :wacko:

Thanks in advance.

[Jennings]

Brilliant, thank you.

Thanks :) Glad you liked it.

In addition: The "F-40" was fitted or retrofitted to other Sabres. The F-35s as supplied to the RNoAF (Norwegian airforce) had the "F-40" wing, as did some/all the F-86F Sabres supplied to Pakistan.

The F-86K was also fitted/retrofitted with the "F-40" wing. The first F-86Ks had the original short chord wing if I remember correctly.

As I said, this is a quick guide only. If we started getting into what got retrofitted to what, it would take a book.

Quick Question:

According to your illustration, would I be right in assuming that I could build (just talking wings here, I know there's other differences) a Canadair Sabre 2 and a F-86A (future projects) from the 1/72 Academy F-86E/Hobbycraft Sabre 4?

Essentially, ignoring the fuselage differences, yes. The wing was identical on the F-86A, D, E, early F, and Canadair Mks 1 thru 4 inclusive. However, the HC kit has the '6-3' wing no matter what it says on the box. The only semi-accurate narrow chord wing ever made on an injection molded kit is the Revell-Monogram Dog Sabre. And that one has almost 4 degrees too much sweep (which is why I say "semi-accurate").

Just curious...I know the difference between a F-30 and F-40 style wing, but the earlier styles get me mixed up :wacko:

Nothing to be mixed up about. All Sabres up to the F-86F-25 (beyond a certain serial), and all Canadairs up to the end of Mk.4 production had the narrow chord slatted wing, period. All of them. Every single one.

J

[rcaf_100]

Thanks!

Essentially, ignoring the fuselage differences, yes. The wing was identical on the F-86A, D, E, early F, and Canadair Mks 1 thru 4 inclusive. However, the HC kit has the '6-3' wing no matter what it says on the box. The only semi-accurate narrow chord wing ever made on an injection molded kit is the Revell-Monogram Dog Sabre. And that one has almost 4 degrees too much sweep (which is why I say "semi-accurate").

So from what you're saying, basically the only way to get a correct narrow chord wing in 1/72 is to re-profile the wing leading edge on the Hobbycraft kit, right? (and then modify the fuselage for the set-back leading edge) Or could I use a Hasegawa F-86D wing perhaps?

Edited March 15, 2009 by rcaf_100

[Jennings]

So from what you're saying, basically the only way to get a correct narrow chord wing in 1/72 is to re-profile the wing leading edge on the Hobbycraft kit, right? (and then modify the fuselage for the set-back leading edge) Or could I use a Hasegawa F-86D wing perhaps?

I think that's correct... I forgot about the Hasegawa (and MPM/Special Hobby) F-86Ds...

J

[gmat]

In 1/72nd scale, Matchbox did an F-86A, which would have the narrow wings. Don't think that it would be worth the effort to get one as the Hasegawa F-86D wing would look much nicer.

The dash forty F-86Fs (6-3 leading edge, with leading edge slats re-installed and one foot extention on each wing tip) were for the JASDF (first one in October 1955) and used the wings installed in later F-86Hs (6-3 wings, then one foot extended wing tips and then leading edge slats) The F-86F-40's handling quality so impressed the USAF that it lead it to modify F-86F-25s and F-86F-30s on hand to the F-86F-40 standard. (from Ray Wagner's The North American Sabre) It might not have been many as by 1957, the F-86F was leaving USAF service. The F-86F bypassed ANG service and went mostly to MDAP. The fighter bomber F-86F-35 with special weapon capability apparently would not recieve this modification.

Best wishes,

Grant

[Julien (UK)]

Cheers to Jenning for putting this up.

Also cheers to Anders for his bit on the Norweigen Sabres, as I was about to ask this question.

Now who will be the first to publish the long awaited "Wings of the Sabre" Book!

Julien

[madmike]

I am going to sticky this thread for a while as it would be a shame to see an important clarification like this buried under newer posts.

MikeJ

[Daryl J.]

Additionally, the 1/48 Monogram F-86F kit from years back has a sweep that matches their F-86D along the trailing edge.

Daryl J.

[Jennings]

Additionally, the 1/48 Monogram F-86F kit from years back has a sweep that matches their F-86D along the trailing edge.

Not sure about the old Monogram F, but I know for 100% certain fact that the Dog Sabre's wing is swept at 38.2 degrees at 25% chord, whereas it should be 35 degrees at 25% chord. I did a semi-scientific analysis of 1/48 Sabre kit wings on Hyperscale back in 2003. It's still available here.

J

[Kirk Taylor]

Excellant drawings Jennings! You should make them available to Duncan's F-86 site. One note...The 6-3 extension on the slatted wings is in between the slats and the forward spar and it's not really a straight taper. Your drawings do a good job to show it that way. I am just pointing it out in case others haven't realized that that is where the 6-3 section actually shows up. I first noticed the extension when looking at an F-86L at the local base museum and have used that as a way to tell what wing is on a plane if I can't see the whole thing (like in photo).

Thanks,

Kirk Taylor

[Jennings]

Excellant drawings Jennings! You should make them available to Duncan's F-86 site. One note...The 6-3 extension on the slatted wings is in between the slats and the forward spar and it's not really a straight taper. Your drawings do a good job to show it that way. I am just pointing it out in case others haven't realized that that is where the 6-3 section actually shows up. I first noticed the extension when looking at an F-86L at the local base museum and have used that as a way to tell what wing is on a plane if I can't see the whole thing (like in photo).

Thanks,

Kirk Taylor

Exactly. It was an entirely new leading edge from the forward spar forward.

J

[TonyH]

Not sure if this has been added,sorry if it has

Tony

http://f-86.tripod.com/wings.html

[Rex]

there was a Sabre wing conversion article a few years ago by Paul Boyer that showed where to cut and fill to change wings from early to late,,,,,,it had a chart of wing types matched up with what versions used them

I'd like to find out which issue it was in, because it included Fury wings in the listing, in a sidebar text box

If anyone knows what issue it was in, it would help out in this thread, and give the naval modelers some useful info also

[lordish]

OK what I want to do is add slats to my 1/48 Academy F-40. There was a company that made a set, BUT the company went under. Anyone got any links?

lordish

[Jennings]

OK what I want to do is add slats to my 1/48 Academy F-40. There was a company that made a set, BUT the company went under. Anyone got any links?

lordish

There's a new company with Sabre wings (not separate slats, entire wings with slats). But honestly, the best method I've found is to simply cut the leading edge slat well out of an RM F-86D and graft it onto the Hasegawa wing. It takes an hour at most, and you get nicely detailed slat wells, rails, and slats. I've done it twice and it's very easy (and probably cheaper than resin).

J

[Dave Fleming]

Essentially, ignoring the fuselage differences, yes. The wing was identical on the F-86A, D, E, early F, and Canadair Mks 1 thru 4 inclusive. However, the HC kit has the '6-3' wing no matter what it says on the box. The only semi-accurate narrow chord wing ever made on an injection molded kit is the Revell-Monogram Dog Sabre. And that one has almost 4 degrees too much sweep (which is why I say "semi-accurate").

I have seen a conversion of a HC/Academy slatted 6-3 wing back to the original A/D/E wing, with extended slats. - effectively removing the 6/3 extension immediately behind the slatted area. I think it was Nils Mathisrud in SAM many years ago.

I'll stick to hard winged mk 4s at the moment!!

[lordish]

There's a new company with Sabre wings (not separate slats, entire wings with slats). But honestly, the best method I've found is to simply cut the leading edge slat well out of an RM F-86D and graft it onto the Hasegawa wing. It takes an hour at most, and you get nicely detailed slat wells, rails, and slats. I've done it twice and it's very easy (and probably cheaper than resin).

J

Got the name of the company there J?

lordish

[lordish]

I found an old Italieri F-86E kit on Ebay. I read that the kit is not that hot, but is it possible I could filch the wing from THAT to fit it to my Academy F-40?

lordish

[Snowbird3a]

Lordish , Bill Scobie at scobiedoproductions@sympatico.ca now offers a narrow chord slatted wing (with separate slats)for both 48 and 72nd in resin. Do a search on Hyperscale and his products will appear in a recent posting

The old Italeri kit didnt offer extended slats- they were molded closed IIRC.

Tony

I found an old Italieri F-86E kit on Ebay. I read that the kit is not that hot, but is it possible I could filch the wing from THAT to fit it to my Academy F-40?

lordish

[Julien (UK)]

I have got a couple of conversion sets to do Aussie sabresm what is the best kit to rob the wings from for these?

Cheers,

Julien

[Snowbird3a]

I have got a couple of conversion sets to do Aussie sabresm what is the best kit to rob the wings from for these?

Cheers,

Julien

I used a Fujimi F86F for my Tasman Avon conversion in 1/72. It had a 6-3 hard wing

tony

[Julien (UK)]

Looks good Tony.

Is that the F30 wing as opoosed the F40?

Oh and where did you get the Marksmen decals from??

Cheers,

Julien

Edited June 10, 2009 by Julien (UK)