Lucky Model; Showing item's available when they are'nt.

[spike7451]

Well I just recieved this e-mail from Lucky Model...

I ordered the Sniper pod which I need to finish my Herrick Harrier.After the order status being 'in progress' I e-mailed them to find out what was going on with my order.

Dear Mervyn,

We regret to inform you that item WP-48099 is not in stock as we still have not received this item from our supplier. When the item is listed as 'available' on the website, it means it will be on backorder and is not ready for immediate shipment. In any case, if you would like to cancel this item or request refund, please do not hesitate to contact us again.

Apologise again for any inconvenience caused.

So then,available to them means it is'nt then....

So I fired off this to them:

I gather then the item I ordered is not available so do you have any idea when it will become available?

To quote Elsie's communication to me;

"We regret to inform you that item WP-48099 is not in stock as we still have not received this item from our supplier. When the item is listed as 'available' on the website, it means it will be on backorder and is not ready for immediate shipment. In any case, if you would like to cancel this item or request refund, please do not hesitate to contact us again.

Apologise again for any inconvenience caused."

Why then dont you list the item as out of stock when,going by the letter above,it clearly is'nt. I'm sure that by listing it as available,when it is'nt,you are breaking the distance selling regulation & false advertising as well.

Every other hobby supplier I have dealt with online clearly state when an item is out of stock.I would prefer the item to be sent to me asap as I do not know it's possible to refund money onto my debit card.Yours sincerly,

Merv

[madmanrick]

This from Lucky Model's website:

3. Product Availability

The product availability estimate refers to the time it will take the item to leave our fulfillment center once you place your order. The product availability will be shown on each detailed product description screen. The product availability will show as:

In Stock

Available (available to order)

Backorder

Preorder

The listed availability might not be applicable for sudden increase in demand for an item. If any items in your order proved to be unavailable, we will inform you for details. All items from an order not in stock and with uncertain availability or discontinued items will not be backordered.

Lucky Model Policies

I personally have avoided ordering those items which show as "available", as there was some discussion of the problems with this in earlier threads here on ARC. And while I wish they used a real time inventory system ala Sprue Bros. or MidTennHobbies, or more clearly defined what is and isn't in stock, the reality is it is what it is.

[Raymond Chung]

This from Lucky Model's website:

Lucky Model Policies

I personally have avoided ordering those items which show as "available", as there was some discussion of the problems with this in earlier threads here on ARC. And while I wish they used a real time inventory system ala Sprue Bros. or MidTennHobbies, or more clearly defined what is and isn't in stock, the reality is it is what it is.

Yes, we address this issue. The new fix will be in place before Sept 2010.

[Dave Williams]

If an item is in stock it clearly says "in stock" (taking account the possibility that someone may have just ordered the last one and they haven't updated their order status page yet). Anything except "in stock", like "available" or "preorder" means that it isn't in stock. They don't have an "out of stock" label. Their categories are shown on their Policies page, under #3 Product availability, which says available means "available to order".

Also, clicking the word "available" on the item page, brings up a popup box with the following page.

This item is currently not in our warehouse. But this item has been in-stock for last 30 days from our supplier notification. It has 80% chance that the item still be available.

People need to read the policies when they order from places they haven't ordered from before as not everyone uses the same verbiage for things. Sorry your item wasn't in stock, but I think there was sufficient info on their page to indicate that the item wasn't actually in stock. Wolfpack stuff comes in batches. I'm sure they will get a restock soon. If you don't want to wait, you can order directly from Wolfpack through their website. Or, Sprue Brothers has 11 of the 1/48 Sniper pods in stock.

http://store.spruebrothers.com/148-wolfpac...099-p23744.aspx

[spike7451]

Yes, we address this issue. The new fix will be in place before Sept 2010.

You may be addressing the issue Raymond,but it does'nt really help me tho does it?

Dave,I understand what you are saying but when an item is listed as 'Available' it means it is available for order.

a·vail·a·ble Adjective /əˈvāləbəl/ listen

Synonyms:

* adjective: disposable, accessible, serviceable, obtainable

*

Able to be used or obtained; at someone's disposal

o

refreshments will be available all afternoon

o

a slush fund available to universities

Not that it is on back order,out of stock or whatever. Maybe I should have checked that it was in stock but again,available means that it is.Not only that but it states on the site that;

If any items in your order proved to be unavailable, we will inform you for details.

So how long would I have had to wait for this? A week? Month?Three months?

I contacted them when the status of my order had'nt changed in over a week from 'In Progress'.

I just want what I ordered & to be informed of any problems.That's not much to ask,is it?

[gkwan]

We have it in stock if you still need one. Here's direct link to it:

http://store.spruebrothers.com/148-wolfpac...099-p23744.aspx

Our inventory quantity is shown in real time.

HTH.

Gordon

[Hawkeye's Hobbies]

It all boils down to the inventory management software a retailer uses...some of it is fantastic, like that Sprue Brothers uses. What priority and resources the retailer places as being important to the success of ones business.

Can you imagine going into a McDonalds and ordering a meal...sir your order will be filled as soon as possible...Clyde over there is slaughtering a cow and Marge is going out to pick potatoes. The food items are "available," just not immediately accessible to service the customer. Items not on the shelf don't do the customer any good.

Sorta like going to the lake to swim and no water...nothing but a big empty. There might be some water again soon, but at the moment it doesn't satisfy the desire or need.

[spike7451]

Thanks Gordon,

Raymond from LM PM'd me,they should have one off to me in a week as an urgent order so we'll see.Money's a bit tight at the mo due to a new job falling thru at the last second.

[DutyCat]

Available helps their sales numbers. Sometimes they can get it. Sometimes they can't. Here is one way to approach it. If it is a new, hot selling item and they have had a run on it and sold out, the odds are that more are on the way.

On the other hand, if it is an older item, but popular, the item may be scarce at wholesalers and the retailer may not know it. An example is the VF-143 boxing of the 1/72 Hasegawa F-14B (kit 0757), which I ordered and never heard a thing from Lucky Model about after that. The same thing happened when I tried to order an Italeri 1/72 V-22 Osprey from them.

What a retailer should do is, if an order cannot be filled, just simply let the customer know they can't get the item and release the customer to look elsewhere. The customer should not have to send awkward e-mails to the retailer asking where their merchandise is.

In my case, an ARCer came to the rescue on the V-22, but I never did find a Hasegawa Pukin' Dogs Tomcat.

Edited August 14, 2010 by DutyCat

[metroman]

<_<

Edited August 14, 2010 by metroman

[Henrik B]

You may be addressing the issue Raymond,but it does'nt really help me tho does it?

Dave,I understand what you are saying but when an item is listed as 'Available' it means it is available for order.

Not that it is on back order,out of stock or whatever. Maybe I should have checked that it was in stock but again,available means that it is.

Your assumption is easy to make, it isn't the best word, but it IS your assumption. One of the synonyms you quoted was "obtainable". LM clearly state what each status mean. It IS available to order, just that when LM get your order they place an order in their turn. As do many other online shops.

Not only that but it states on the site that; "If any items in your order proved to be unavailable, we will inform you for details."

So how long would I have had to wait for this? A week? Month?Three months?

I contacted them when the status of my order had'nt changed in over a week from 'In Progress'.

I just want what I ordered & to be informed of any problems.That's not much to ask,is it?

Why would they contact you? Your pod isn't "unavailable". They fully expect to get it, at some point in time - probably when Wolf Pack sends their next batch of orders to LM. If Wolf Pack would discontinue the item before that happened, LM would tell you. From LM's standpoint there WAS no problem with your order - you ordered a item they probably would receive in the future, in the full knowledge (well, you missed that, but LM can't force you to read it) that it could take a while.

It's an easy mistake to make, their website isn't perfect in any way, but it boils down to your mistake in the end. Don't diss LM for that.

[BadCop]

Having fallen afoul of this a few times as well from Luckymodel I understand the frustration, but I really don't think of it as that much of a problem, just a mildly annoying inconvenience.

At first glance there doesn't seem to be that much difference between 'available' and 'in stock', but once you've gotten the context right it's not a problem.

I always try to make sure that I only order 'in stock' items and on the occasion where in between the order being made and it being processed a few items become 'available', I just use the website to get them to remove the available items and give me the difference in total cost and shipping as store credit. Otherwise I'm just happy to wait for it to become 'In Stock'. They have always been prompt and courteous in response to my order change messages through their 'request' system.

I've also had a few occasions where LM ship what's in stock after a week or two and put the 'available' items on hold, shipping them when they arrive at no extra shipping charge!

My stash is 120 odd kits (no small proportion of which came from LM), so there's more than enough to keep me busy while I wait, plus the great prices make the wait well and truly worth it.

I wouldn't hesitate to order from them again.

Trent

[spike7451]

Your assumption is easy to make, it isn't the best word, but it IS your assumption. One of the synonyms you quoted was "obtainable". LM clearly state what each status mean. It IS available to order, just that when LM get your order they place an order in their turn. As do many other online shops.

Why would they contact you? Your pod isn't "unavailable". They fully expect to get it, at some point in time - probably when Wolf Pack sends their next batch of orders to LM. If Wolf Pack would discontinue the item before that happened, LM would tell you. From LM's standpoint there WAS no problem with your order - you ordered a item they probably would receive in the future, in the full knowledge (well, you missed that, but LM can't force you to read it) that it could take a while.

It's an easy mistake to make, their website isn't perfect in any way, but it boils down to your mistake in the end. Don't diss LM for that.

Because it states if an item is'nt in stock they will!!

I contacted them because my order was still showing as in progress after a period of time.

http://www.luckymodel.com/scale.aspx?actio...o=NL070430-0255

3. Product Availability

The product availability estimate refers to the time it will take the item to leave our fulfillment center once you place your order. The product availability will be shown on each detailed product description screen. The product availability will show as:

In Stock

Available (available to order)

Backorder

Preorder

The listed availability might not be applicable for sudden increase in demand for an item. If any items in your order proved to be unavailable, we will inform you for details. All items from an order not in stock and with uncertain availability or discontinued items will not be backordered.

Not my mistake..theirs! AVAILABLE means it is in stock & they can supply it. Every other hobby website I have used have stated if an item is out of stock next to the item if you search for it.I arrived at the product from a link provided to me,so I took it as gospel as 'Available' meant they had it.

Going by the feedback on BM,I'm not the only one who's fell foul of LM's website in ordering this product.

a·vail·a·ble Adjective /əˈvāləbəl/ listen

Synonyms:

* adjective: disposable, accessible, serviceable, obtainable

*

Able to be used or obtained; at someone's disposal

o

refreshments will be available all afternoon

o

a slush fund available to universities

*

(of a person) Not otherwise occupied; free to do something

o

the nurse is only available at certain times

o

the minister was not available for comment

*

Not currently involved in a sexual or romantic relationship

o

there's a dearth of available women here

If you pay £12,000 for a new car that is available on the car manufacturers website & then find out from the garage that the car is'nt in stock yet & we cant get it for XX weeks/months,how would you feel?

[madmanrick]

The fact remains that each of us is responsible for ensuring that we understand exactly how an online merchant does business, prior to placing an order for the first time. After all it isn't as though the part was falsely advertised by Lucky as "in stock", they clearly denoted that the part was "available" and by their definition (which if you had looked should have been clear to you) that means available to order, not to ship.

You could argue that it would be nice if every online merchant used the same standards, so that we could have a seamless experience without adjustment. However, this is the real world and dealing with companies in other countries, isn't always that simple. Consider yourself fortunate that you have the opportunity to even have the option of shopping in other countries so easily. It has not been that simple or easy and in many places still is not. I have never ordered something from ANY retailer U.S. based or not, without first attempting to learn all I can about their polices, both from their website and from personal experiences. In fact, with Lucky Model I waited almost 8 months before placing my first order with them. But, I used the same policy with Sprue, MidTennHobbies, Tower, Yannis, TwoMikes, Squadron, et al. As the consumer, it is our responsibility to understand the policies and procedures, after all it is our money we are entrusting to them, not the other way around. You should be happy that the amount of money here us small and not the sort of sum for the fictional car you spoke of. Guess you'd really be ****** if you failed to check what their policies were then huh?

[Steve Zodiac]

[Huey Gunner]

No ill feelings or offense meant, but I concur with Steve. Let's move on gentlemen. Edited August 15, 2010 by Huey Gunner

[Henrik B]

Because it states if an item is'nt in stock they will!!

I contacted them because my order was still showing as in progress after a period of time.

NO. You STILL make the same mistake. The sentence in question: "If any items in your order proved to be unavailable, we will inform you for details." does NOT mention their stock levels, they mean that if it's unavailable to THEM they will tell you - like for instance if the manufacturer stops making it before they can get it to you.

Not my mistake..theirs! AVAILABLE means it is in stock & they can supply it.

No, it's YOUR assumption that it means that, and the information available contradicts that. They have suppliers that lists that item, so it's "available" to order. They CAN supply it - when they get it. You jumped to conclusions from their status label.

Every other hobby website I have used have stated if an item is out of stock next to the item if you search for it.

Not a hobby website per se, but I take it you're familiar with Amazon? They go to great lengths to avoid telling you that they don't actually have the item you order - but I can assure you, not all titles they list are "available", with the meaning you want. There you have to look at their shipping estimate: if it says "Usually ships in 2-3 days" they probably have it at a "fulfillment center". 5-7 days, it means they have to order it in their turn. Some of their books listed do not even exist physically, they print it on demand.

I arrived at the product from a link provided to me,so I took it as gospel as 'Available' meant they had it.

Going by the feedback on BM,I'm not the only one who's fell foul of LM's website in ordering this product.

I totally UNDERSTAND the mistake, it's easy to make but I'm a bit perplexed by the insistence that it's LM's mistake that you didn't read the information.

[Kahunaminor]

Spike,

I'm afraid I concur with the notion that you have misinterpreted the term "available". Nowhere that I can see does available mean "in stock and they can supply it". The definition you have listed includes "obtainable" but nowhere does it include indicate a time frame. I have always taken available to mean they have access to a supplier who can provide that item for the customer. Once an order is made they place that order with the supplier to provide the item to them so they can ship it to you, the customer, in accordance with their stated policy.

In the end Raymond has said he will get the item to you as a rush order. I would call that prety good customer service for what is by weight of opinion an error in your interpretation.

Regards,

Edited August 16, 2010 by Kahunaminor

[Phantom726]

Not wishing to be part of this discussion as I have had nothing but really great experiences with Lucky Model, I would just like to highlight this feature in the search option:

Edited August 16, 2010 by Phantom726

[Berkut]

"Assumption is the mother of all **** ups."

Just saying. :)

Edited August 16, 2010 by Berkut

[Scooby]

The items are available, they just are not in stock.

[Boman]

FYI - Lucky model has a definition of what is in stock, and what available means; http://www.luckymodel.com/scale.aspx?actio...o=NL070430-0255

See #3

I have had a similar experience some years ago with Great Models.com - ordered an item that was supposed to be in stock, however the last was sold just before I placed my order wihtout the stock level beeing updated.

The difference is that GMW didn't provide any information besides a lame email stating my item was out of stock. Lucky models has always proven a great place to buy, with good prices and will get more of my money in the future.

[Edgar]

The following is taken from the "Policies" section of Luckymodels' website:-

3. Product Availability

The product availability estimate refers to the time it will take the item to leave our fulfillment center once you place your order. The product availability will be shown on each detailed product description screen. The product availability will show as:

In Stock

Available (available to order)

Backorder

Preorder

The listed availability might not be applicable for sudden increase in demand for an item. If any items in your order proved to be unavailable, we will inform you for details. All items from an order not in stock and with uncertain availability or discontinued items will not be backordered.

On Saturday, I ordered an "In Stock" item; today I received notification that it's on its way. Can't think of many (any?) other stockist, which could equal that.

Edgar