California tells online retailers to start collecting sales taxes

[TaiidanTomcat]

Do you seriously believe that if a person who lives in Florida pays tax to a company in California that California is going to lower its taxes because there is more income? Good luck don't hold your breath. If I do not live in CA why should I pay taxes to it when I live in FL? If everyone in the country bought things online from CA and nowhere else and they all payed sales tax your taxes would go down absolutely ZERO! Sales taxes is not an association fee that can be distributed to more homes and the more homes equals less taxes. By your logic as more people move into CA and build homes and pay taxes everyone else s taxes should drop? Sorry, doesn't work that way. Regardless of how much more tax revenue comes in from internet the sales tax will not drop.

Dude I know. That house thing is probably one of the worst examples of missing the point I have ever seen, Its like me wondering why I can't drive my car to the moon if I fill it with enough Jet fuel. You really don't know where to begin with how wrong it is, and its impossible to boot. He must be trolling...

But you did a good job of not mentioning those words You win!!

[Sig Saur & Son]

Expect even more companies to move out of California to friendlier states. One things for sure, California will find ways to spend the additional revenue. TAXES WILL NOT GO DOWN!

Edited July 2, 2011 by Sig Saur & Son

[Fishwelding]

Not to be argumentative or anything but I think you're narrowing down your observation a little too much....

Who said anything about banning?! I'm hoping to capitalize on the whole thing. Look, I promise political pontificators that unlike what happens when they start sermonizing off-line, they won't get the rolling eyes and indifferent stares of their teenage kids, or the yawning, bored "whatever you say, dear" sigh of dismissal from their spouse, or the "here he goes again" mutual glances of buddies. No, siree, they'll get a steady stream (depending on the package they order) of "absolutely right!" or "really? I never thought of it that way before!" or even "I hate to admit it, but you're probably right, there."

"Here at Bull-E-Pulpit.com, your opinions matter."

It's IPO time; the stock is going to climb like a scared monkey!

Edited July 2, 2011 by Fishwelding

[Hoops]

Good! I hope every state does this. That way, the tax codes can be rewritten and ideally, taxes can be reduced.

I'm going to take issue with that statement. I don't think that you will ever see a particular tax go away. Sometimes that tax rates might get adjusted, but you will never see a tax go away once it is in force. The federal telephone excise tax that you pay every month on your phone bill? That one was levied to pay for the Spanish American War.

[toadwbg]

Correct- with rare exception, taxes NEVER go down or are eliminated.

One a goose begins laying eggs, why get rid of it?

[john53]

I live in Taxachusetts, and crossing the border to

NH isn't always profitable. The gas to drive there

costs more than the tax here. Also soon they will be

monitoring where I drive ala my Fast Pass transponder

THEN taxing you if you drive over the alloted amount

of miles per year, this is coming soon to a "Big Brother"

state near you! Don't have a transponder, no problem

they are in your vehicle thanks to your local auto

makers! What a GREAT country we live in Comrade!

[JasonW]

I live in Taxachusetts, and crossing the border to

NH isn't always profitable. The gas to drive there

costs more than the tax here. Also soon they will be

monitoring where I drive ala my Fast Pass transponder

THEN taxing you if you drive over the alloted amount

of miles per year, this is coming soon to a "Big Brother"

state near you! Don't have a transponder, no problem

they are in your vehicle thanks to your local auto

makers! What a GREAT country we live in Comrade!

Uh, who is in my vehicle?

[Henrik B]

Just a note on the "unconcievable!" replies:

When I buy books from Amazon (co.uk) here in Sweden, Amazon collect Swedish sales tax (VAT) and forward that to the correct authorities. They have to do that, by law, when their total sales to a country within EU exceeds a certain amount (about $30 00, if I remember correctly). The concept shouldn't therefore be something new for Amazon.

[Wayne S]

Just a note on the "unconcievable!" replies:

When I buy books from Amazon (co.uk) here in Sweden, Amazon collect Swedish sales tax (VAT) and forward that to the correct authorities. They have to do that, by law, when their total sales to a country within EU exceeds a certain amount (about $30 00, if I remember correctly). The concept shouldn't therefore be something new for Amazon.

Do not see what your point is?

Keep in mind the law is not against one or a few big money companies, "even tho that is about what it will add up-to which is discrimination in my book".

Henrick, see if you understand this, they are pretty much saying "anyone around the world" who sells anything to a Californian must have a sellers Permit/License for California to collect said tax which, yes is "unconceivable". I certainly am not doing it.

If California wants to make every single Californian pay sales tax over the internet, this is what they can do, call the sales tax a use tax, then try to force and keep an eye on every single Californian who bought something over the internet. Their law their residents they deal with it.

Looking up stuff between Amazon and New York is kind of odd, they are saying Amazon owes them sale tax. I do not know about anyone else, that sounds very funny to me, if Amazon never retrieved the tax owed, how the heck can new York collect it from them? The buyer still owes a tax that was not collected, not Amazon.

Saying all this, I do find it strange they brought up my state since they have this law yet do not enforce it, unless it is something that mainly has to with needing a registration like a trailer/camper/car or boat. Those things are easy to enforce since taxes are paid "instate" at the time ones tags are given.

PS: I am sure congress and the Supreme Court did not mean the words like California "thinks" they did. The way California "defined" the laws, means anyone has a presence in California when an object is shipped there. "Shipping" UPS Fed Ex and I am sure the United States Postal Service plus others have offices in said State. So how does anyone not fit into the criteria as they defined it?

---------------------------

Anyhow, Amazon is pretty much done with this thread, they cut off all affiliations with California, which means they will not be collecting sale tax, plus from looking at numbers will cost California at-least 150 million in income, so much for half that revenue Cali thought they were going to gain, sure they will love having the unemployment rate go up, not that they had a problem with it

Edited July 2, 2011 by Wayne S

[Cyrus Tan]

I'm a Kaliforian and all I can say is we get taxed for everything! It's very ironic that the state is flat broke. Not to mention, the cost of living is more expensive here compared to other places. Average sales tax here is 8%-9% and 10% in some cities. I think they're just trying to find ways to increase tax revenue..... err I mean rip us off. I have a few gripes though. The car tax increased a couple of years ago so now I'm paying more for registration fees then what I paid in previous years. Gas is usually more expensive here then others states. When I bought an Iphone last year they charged me sales tax based on the non-contracted price of the phone. It worked out to be an additional $50-$60 bucks. That could be a deal breaker for others. Another problem we have is too many "hand outs" to illegals. My wife is a RN for a local hosipital and works in the labor and delivery unit. Well, from what she tells me many of the women giving birth are illegals and often don't speak English yet they receive state insurance (WIC) to cover their medical expenses. Guess who pays for that? Heck there are people here that work and are legal, but do not have medical benefits. I simply don't understand why they offer these types of social services to illegals? I suppose this would be a smaller problem if Kaliforina wasn't a border state?

If California wants to make every single Californian pay sales tax over the internet, this is what they can do, call the sales tax a use tax, then try to force and keep an eye on every single Californian who bought something over the internet. Their law their residents they deal with it.

They do try on our state tax return. IIRC, there is a line item where it asks the taxpayer to disclose their online purchases for the entire year and multiply this by this and put the dollar amount on such and such line. I highly doubt anybody is filling this part out? And I don't think there's a way for the state to actually monitor or enforce this law. We'll see what happens?

[Aaronw]

When I bought an Iphone last year they charged me sales tax based on the non-contracted price of the phone. It worked out to be an additional $50-$60 bucks.

I got hit on that one when I got a Droid last summer. What a load, I have never heard of an item being taxed on full retail when it was marked down and sold for less. At first I thought it was verizon trying to pull a fast one, then started hearing about it from other non-Verizon people. Unfortunately probably just a sign of things to come.

[Les / Creative Edge Photo]

California is virtually broke just as what over 45 of the 50 US states are due to poor taxation policies. In California it was especially Prop 13 and that began the time clock to financial melt down of California.

Add the fact that between the population DEMANDING all too many services many not really needed or properly run and govts. spending every penny they can especially due to lobby groups going ape nuts on legislators such as by example the number one industry in California. Prison building and having said prisons be privately owned and run on the tax payer's dime well you can see where this all will go.

OBTW it makes no difference if it's a Republican or Democrat govt. In California or the what 44 other states going broke. Both parties get an "F" for such and the citizens basically ask and deserve such because of the misguided ideals and values many regardless of politics have. Throw in insurmountable entitlement ideals by any and all citizens of any and all incomes as well as politics well the message is ultimately YOU'RE SCREWED!

Oh and this type of argument can be transposed to most any western developed nation, look at the PIG (Portugal, Ireland and Greece) nations in Europe today. Add even including mine (Canada) which almost arrogantly and blindly thinks it's all ok and we live on a separate cloud from the world's problems. My fellow Canucks will soon be getting a rude awakening.

Edited July 3, 2011 by Les / Creative Edge Photo

[HOLMES]

...My fellow Canucks will soon be getting a rude awakening.

Especially after the Royal troupe has gone and they have to pay for the visit !

{I like the Royals but was just saying..after all their expenses comes out of the peoples taxes !}

[TaiidanTomcat]

Throw in insurmountable entitlement ideals by any and all citizens of any and all incomes as well as politics well the message is ultimately YOU'RE SCREWED!

A big problem with entitlements is demographics. simply put, the baby boomers didn't have enough children to provide the tax base to keep all those wonderful entitlements going. beyond that a lot of state are broke because of the economic downturn, and as citizens make less, the government gets a smaller share. It has take governments a couple years to catch onto this, and many state governments were making budgetary decisions based on the most ideal numbers, and naturally they came up short. Not that they should cut off entitlements, just tax more... Somehow it will all work out. you will never be able to levy enough taxes to where one person can support two. simplt math. unless we all become millionaires soon. I have been giving my money to this guy in Nigeria, so I will be ok.

California installed speed/red light cameras recently. They will also fine you if your front bumper is over the white line in an intersection even if you properly stopped. Look forward to fines for not having your hands at 10 & 2 on the wheel soon!

And as Wayne said, the whole thing is an automatic backfire since Amazon is simply putting an embargo the People's Republic of California. Something Amazon has done before so, they cant claim ignorance.

I suppose this would be a smaller problem if Kaliforina wasn't a border state?

Texas is a border state and they don't have nearly the same problems as California, Same with AZ. You don't see them making laws that kill business though, or going after online retailers, or increasing prison spending 900 percent in the last decade (Arizona just makes tent prisons)

Edited July 3, 2011 by TaiidanTomcat

[Johnopfor]

California can try, and they might cow some companies into actually doing it - until it's ruled unconstitutional and banned.

Quoted ver batim from the Constitution of the United States, Section 9, paragraph 5....

No Tax nor duty shall be laid on Articles exported from any state

[TaiidanTomcat]

Quoted ver batim from the Constitution of the United States, Section 9, paragraph 5....

What a great weekend to vote on this as well California... any chance you could have waited until after this whole Independence Day thing?

[WymanV]

Quoted ver batim from the Constitution of the United States, Section 9, paragraph 5....

No Tax nor duty shall be laid on Articles exported from any state

Leave it to Kalifornia to not bother checking with the Constitution before making up laws...

Ken

[Johnopfor]

What a great weekend to vote on this as well California... any chance you could have waited until after this whole Independence Day thing?

Unfortunatly, there are some that wish the Constitution was written in pencil, and others, in invisible ink.....

[Dave Williams]

Quoted ver batim from the Constitution of the United States, Section 9, paragraph 5....

Did you read that section? It's in Article 1, The Legislative Branch, and Section 9 is titled Limits on Congress. It is saying that the US Congress cannot apply a tax or duty on products exported from a state.

It's a big stretch to take that as saying that individual states cannot tax products exported to another state.

[Johnopfor]

Did you read that section? It's in Article 1, The Legislative Branch, and Section 9 is titled Limits on Congress. It is saying that the US Congress cannot apply a tax or duty on products exported from a state.

It's a big stretch to take that as saying that individual states cannot tax products exported to another state.

I have a copy of the Constitution, the Declaration of Independence and the Articles of Confederation here at home.

Paragraph 6 states....

No preference shall be given by any Regulation of Commerce or Revenue to the Ports of one state over those of another: nor shall Vessels bound to, or from, one state be obliged to enter, clear, or pay duties in another

Article 1 not only deals with the Legislative branch, but also put limits on State Legislatures, in particular, section 10

[Dave Williams]

I have a copy of the Constitution, the Declaration of Independence and the Articles of Confederation here at home.

Paragraph 6 states....

Article 1 not only deals with the Legislative branch, but also put limits on State Legislatures, in particular, section 10

Yes, Section 10 deals with the state powers, but the two paragraphs you posted are not in Section 10, they are in Section 9, which deals with the US Congress only. We'll just have do disagree on what the Constitution means. I'm sure it will go to court, but I suspect the key issue will be forcing companies outside the state to collect tax on behalf on another state, which is probably wrong. I'm sure that a state could legally tax any item sold in their state, whether it's taken out of the door in someone's arms, or put on UPS truck to be sent out of state.

[Isaac]

I don't see what everyone is up in arms about. Every year, California asks you to pay sales tax for out of state purchases on your income tax. Naturally, most people don't. This is a form of tax evasion.

Companies will move out of California over this? Nope, the companies who are not collected sales tax are already out of state.

I buy a lot of online as do most other people I'm sure. This might actually help the local economy by getting more people in and spending money in brick and mortar stores.

[Isaac]

I have a copy of the Constitution, the Declaration of Independence and the Articles of Confederation here at home.

Two of the three are not legal documents.

[Wayne S]

I don't see what everyone is up in arms about. Every year, California asks you to pay sales tax for out of state purchases on your income tax. Naturally, most people don't. This is a form of tax evasion.

How is it a form of tax evasion, would love to hear this one?

Companies will move out of California over this? Nope, the companies who are not collected sales tax are already out of state.

This might be new, news to people who made these laws in cali, People who just lost their jobs/income, bought/spent a majority of their income in the State, not only at brick and mortar stores, also spent a majority of that income in the town, city and state its self. Housing, food, gas, water, electric, and sewage "necessities" just to name a few any of these things bought over the net?

Really, anyone who thinks this has, anything to do with mom and pop stores are joking themselves. This has to do with other "BIG" companies that eat mom and pops like candy, spending money on those that make laws to help them rid the competition, Yah know like a place that was mentioned "Walmart".

Edited July 4, 2011 by Wayne S

[Isaac]

How is it a form of tax evasion, would love to hear this one?

This is easy. If you buy mail order from out of state, California expects you to pay up when you do your state income taxes. If you don't, its tax evasion.

This might be new, news to people who made these laws in cali, People who just lost their jobs/income, bought/spent a majority of their income in the State, not only at brick and mortar stores, also spent a majority of that income in the town, city and state its self. Housing, food, gas, water, electric, and sewage "necessities" just to name a few any of these things bought over the net?

Really, anyone who thinks this has, anything to do with mom and pop stores are joking themselves. This has to do with other "BIG" companies that eat mom and pops like candy, spending money on those that make laws to help them rid the competition, Yah know like a place that was mentioned "Walmart".

I'm not sure what you are saying here. If I end up purchasing more locally, then I'm helping the local economy.

Edited July 4, 2011 by Isaac