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ProfessorOfDeath

Mosquito Rivet Pattern?

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Hi folks. I have recently finished a couple of kits that had awesome surface detail in the way of riveting. I really like the character they add to the model.

I just decided to build the Tamiya Mosquito and with it being devoid of rivets I'd like to add them. I purchased a Rosie Riveter, but I'm having trouble finding a pattern for the rivets. Does anyone have any scale drawings that could help me get there?

Thanks!

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As far as I know most of the mosquito was plywood so I would think there is not much in the way of rivets. Maybe on the engine cowls. The wings were definitely plywood.

We have one in the museum here in my city and I should have a look see to make sure.

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Oh...hmm...that makes sense I guess.

That makes things easier though. I still like the look of rivets under a wash and weathering, so I think I'll still add them. At least now I don't have to obsess over correct patterns etc. I'll "wing" it.

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Obviously, you're free to do whatever you want with your model, but IMO putting rivet detail on a Mossie will look REALLY odd. Take a look at this picture:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b4/De_Havilland_Mosquito_IV_ExCC.jpg

The overall finish appears very smooth; the only fastener detail evident is that holding the cowls on the nacelles.

But again, it's your model so if you want to rivet it, knock yourself out.

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As well as having no rivets (except on areas like the engine nacelles,) there were virtually no panel lines either(apart from access panels - mostly underneath,) since the wooden areas were held in place by countersunk screws, then covered by Madapolam, a high-quality Egyptian cotton, which was doped into place, before being painted with the camouflage. Rivet lines will look decidedly odd.

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I'm going to cover mine with door knobs, just because I like the look :)

And for the record, it's a whole week before April Fool's Day. I had to do a double check when I saw this thread.

Edited by Jennings

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As well as having no rivets (except on areas like the engine nacelles,) there were virtually no panel lines either(apart from access panels - mostly underneath,) since the wooden areas were held in place by countersunk screws, then covered by Madapolam, a high-quality Egyptian cotton, which was doped into place, before being painted with the camouflage. Rivet lines will look decidedly odd.

Edgar, is absolutely correct. We are building a 1:1 Mossie at the Canadian Historical Aircraft Association, and the guys working on it would consider your idea as sacrilege!! :jaw-dropping: :lol: :whistle::jaw-dropping:

But of course, you can do whatever you like. :rolleyes:

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I'm going to cover mine with door knobs, just because I like the look :)/>

OK, I almost sprayed soda out my nose. :rolleyes:/>

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I get that it's not "correct." I just think it adds some visual interest when weathered...and I don't know that artistic license isn't sometimes a good thing. I mean...it is just a hobby right?

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Whatever. It's your model. "Adding visual interest" is an "interesting" thing to do to a model. I'd think a really well done build, with accurate colors and markings, and appropriate, realistic, subtle weathering would add much more visual interest than putting recessed rivets all over an airplane that in real life is as smooth as a baby's butt, and which didn't have a single rivet on about 99% of the surface of the airplane. If I hadn't read this thread, and I saw a model of a Mosquito with rows of rivets all over it, I'd laugh out loud at the practical joke someone was obviously trying to pull.

But it's your model :)/>

Edited by Jennings

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I get that it's not "correct." I just think it adds some visual interest when weathered...and I don't know that artistic license isn't sometimes a good thing. I mean...it is just a hobby right?

I think it would be better received if it were a subject that actually had rivets. I love the Mossie but would find it very out of place to see rivets all over it. I think it would be as out of place as if it were on a fabric covered WWI fighter.

BUT... As others here have stated, it's your model and it's only a hobby. The late great Al Superczynski had a saying, “Build what YOU want, the way YOU want to, and above all, have fun.” So go for it Prof!

don

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You must be related to the Mad Riveter that we have heard so much about. I plan on doing a Monogram Albatross in Canadian colours and I expect to have a lot of rivets left over. I could send them to you in the post. Could even throw in some prop wash.

CheersPaul

Edited by MacStingy

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I agree with everyone here in both respects, a Mossie would look just plain wrong covered in rivets, but it IS your model, so go for gold if you like artistic flair.

There might be another way around this for you.

I have been very involved and around Mosquito's for the past 35yrs odd and one thing that is apparent is that original build Mosquito aircraft are not as smooth as you might expect. Take a look at the FB version for instance around the nose section fwd of the leading edge, you can often see the ply strips curving up to the nose cap, the fabric tapes are thick and heavy, see image below(I think I got this from the IWM)

10987432_309683025822162_3061543011431154489_n_zpshbyfabce.jpg

ammo-loading02_zps6332y0ag.jpg

Of course I have no idea what scale you are doing, but this in my opinion would add better interest than rivets. You could also add red dope fabric patches (often seen on wing/tailplane joins and sections of the weather strip on the upper wing spar's etc).

Don't look at pics of KA114, she used modern more stable epoxies and finer fabric covering for ease of maintenance and longevity of her structure, hence she looks nice and smooth.

In 72 or even 48 this might look a bit off, but your call. Remember there is a surprisingly large amount of metal in a Mosquito so a mix of smooth and rivets might look quite nice anyway. Things like radiator units, engine cowls, nacelles, flap jack covers, nose cap, and some underbelly panelling, coupled with a bit of 'texture' in the wood might make for a more realistic finish.

Anyway, that's my take for what it is worth, hope it helps a little.

BTW Jen, your comment about doorknobs nearly made me wet myself with laughter...Lol

Cheers

Anthony

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The current Airfix 1/72 Mosquito has been around for a fair while, since when it was fashionable to display rivets as scale bolt heads. ;) While not exactly as we expect these days, it does give an idea as to where the mosquito had rivets. It is still quite an accurate kit but when modelling one I would simply knock the rivets off with a sanding stick in 1/72, maybe accentuate them a little in bigger scales. A couple of pages here & here are worth scrolling through, they both have completed kits that show up the rivets, though a lot of the camo'd ones are harder to see them on. It might also be worth it to google for builds of Airfix's 1/24 kit, I'd be sure that there would be some representation of the rivetted areas on this. This one from flikr has been redone quite nicely & gives a decent idea of the sort of finish that I think Anthony is referring to above. There are photos either side of it.

Steve.

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You must be related to the Mad Riveter that we have heard so much about. I plan on doing a Monogram Albatross in Canadian colours and I expect to have a lot of rivets left over. I could send them to you in the post. Could even throw in some prop wash.

CheersPaul

:D, And for the electrical side of things, don't forget the Lucas Smoke Replacement kit for when all the smoke has leaked out of your Lucas aircraft or automotive electrical system. I'm currnetly designing 1/24, 1/32, 1/48 and 1/72 Lucas Smoke Replacement Kits for us modelers. As the Mossie was a British aircraft it probably had Lucas electrics. What scale Mossie are you building Professor?

:cheers:,

Ross.

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I'm going to cover mine with door knobs, just because I like the look :)/>

And for the record, it's a whole week before April Fool's Day. I had to do a double check when I saw this thread.

Now that is funny, we really need a reputation or like button on this site. Probably the funniest thing I have read in some time.

Good thing he doesn't like perforated flaps!

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I have been very involved and around Mosquito's for the past 35yrs odd and one thing that is apparent is that original build Mosquito aircraft are not as smooth as you might expect. Take a look at the FB version for instance around the nose section fwd of the leading edge, you can often see the ply strips curving up to the nose cap, the fabric tapes are thick and heavy, see image below(I think Cheers

Anthony

Hey Anthony,

You may know a friend of mine. Graeme is our Agusta Westland rep and is based out of Vancouver, BC (we have new AW-139s). Graeme is a Kiwi and former RNZAF member. As well, he worked on Mossie's and other warbirds in your area. He knows the man well that developed the Mossie molds. Just last week he was showing me pictures of the molds and explained it took 20 years for that man to build these molds. We always talk warbirds when he is onsite.

I know it is a small world, as when I found out Graeme was Kiwi I asked if he knew a RNZAF member that I hosted when he was on exchange in Canada with the CAF. As soon as I mentioned his name he said,"I know that bleep bleep." I knew instantly the way he described him that he knew George well. George was a blast to host, he worked both A-4s and Seasprites. I believe Graeme worked the same two airframes in the Kiwi Airforce.

George shared the same last name as a very famous boxer. So you may know George too!

Cheers,

Scoob (I am always amazed at how small our world is)

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Just last week he was showing me pictures of the molds and explained it took 20 years for that man to build these molds. We always talk warbirds when he is onsite.

The fellow you are referring to is named Glyn Powell. Our fuselage was the very first off his moulds.

MosseMoulds_zpsidxoc2dc.jpg

MossieMated_zpsteqmwagv.jpg

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There's a few lines of rivets and fasteners on the engine nacelles but that's about it.

DSCF7848.jpg

DSCF7847.jpg

Edited by Kevan Vogler

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If you use one of those "Rosie Riviter" wheels on a wooden Mosquito, wouldn't it just make nail holes? :blink:

C2j

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Hey Scoob

Sorry for the late reply. Yes I have met Glyn many times, he is a thoroughly nice guy and I have the utmost respect for him like all Kiwi aviation enthusiasts do. He has helped me out with my own Auster T7 rebuild and even had great advice with woodwork and fabric. You are right indeed we live in a small world and I have come across many characters along the way. So I am glad to hear our Kiwi reputation is the same the world over!

Big Daddy, we were all in amazement when your fuse came off the mould. I got to have a good look all over it many times before she left our shores. How are you guys getting along?? What bits are you still looking for?

Kevin that is one interesting looking Mossie, I just struggle to get my head around what they have done and how they did what they did. I think it looks odd, and would love to see her in more detail around the nose to see how they did the nose conversion. The 2 stage Merlins reminds me of an Aussie one. But hey, at least she is safe and where she looks well cared for.

Cheers guys

Anthony

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It's hard to resist commenting--door knobs is good! I was thinking bent nails sticking out and splinters (especially if captured with a German splinter camo job).

One serious thought (this early in the morning?)---might they have been field-repaired with metal if wood not available (desert)?

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One serious thought this early in the morning?)---might they have been field-repaired with metal if wood not available (desert)?

One of my college professors was a WW-II Mossie aircraft mechanic. He taught our A&P classes on wood working. He could carve a splayed wood patch with a pocket knife faster than you could blink. No, I think they'd always be repaired the 'proper' way with wood and fabric.

My link

Edited by majortomski

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