F-35 news roundup

[BeeJee]

The First Royal Netherlands Airforce F-35 rolls out, that's good news.

Dutch F-35

Edited April 4, 2012 by BeeJee

[Scooby]

Sounds like the Sea Kings all over again. Except at least THIS time the government acknowledges the need for a replacement. 20 years on we STILL fly the Sea King.

Totally silly politics. The media sure is running this show. I don't agree with the Auditor General report either. He isn't a fighter pilot and the end cost is pure speculation.

The funny thing is the Liberals put us into the JSF program in 1997. We had to invest millions of dollars each year to be in that program. We were also going to get our money back on the purchase by producing parts for the aircraft.

When we switch to the Super Hornet we will be buying a product built 100% in the States. All those jobs and advances in the Canadian Aviation Industry will be lost.

[Alvis 3.1]

Totally silly politics. The media sure is running this show. I don't agree with the Auditor General report either. He isn't a fighter pilot and the end cost is pure speculation.

The funny thing is the Liberals put us into the JSF program in 1997. We had to invest millions of dollars each year to be in that program. We were also going to get our money back on the purchase by producing parts for the aircraft.

When we switch to the Super Hornet we will be buying a product built 100% in the States. All those jobs and advances in the Canadian Aviation Industry will be lost.

Couldn't agree more. My prediction: After spending a bunch of money, the F-35 will get chosen anyhow. Some will scream it was a rigged selection.

Oh well, it's only money, right?

Now, when do we get an accurate F-35C or A? I'll settle for either 1/48 or 1/72. Also, does anyone know yet what the camo scheme will be for the RCAF ones? I'm dying to do one, but I'd rather not make one only to have it look "wrong" in a couple months.

I'd like to nominate the F-35 as the most angrily debated plane in decades.

Alvis 3.1

[phantom]

Totally silly politics. The media sure is running this show. I don't agree with the Auditor General report either. He isn't a fighter pilot and the end cost is pure speculation.

The funny thing is the Liberals put us into the JSF program in 1997. We had to invest millions of dollars each year to be in that program. We were also going to get our money back on the purchase by producing parts for the aircraft.

When we switch to the Super Hornet we will be buying a product built 100% in the States. All those jobs and advances in the Canadian Aviation Industry will be lost.

Oh, this is very true. But Uncle Bobby and whats his face from the NDP would not let that stand in the way of making points.

[Alvis 3.1]

Politics and facts rarely keep close company.

Alvis 3.1

[anotherP51nut]

Politics and facts rarely keep close company.

Alvis 3.1

As the Canadian Auditor General has so clearly documented.

[fulcrum1]

The Canucks capped spending on it, and they won't be the first. Any bets on which nation is going to be the first to bail on the program?

http://www.defensenews.com/article/20120408/DEFREG02/304080001?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

[Scooby]

As the Canadian Auditor General has so clearly documented.

The Audtitor General also failed to mention the Liberal's signed us to the JSF program in 1997 at a cost of 187 million to join. The intent was to create jobs in Canada, which it will. I think the requirement to remain in the program was a minimum of 50 million a year in investment.

The media has also been very limited in what they are reporting. I tried to post the above info to a yahoo news story and each time I posted it the reply was deleted. But that is typical with the media, they grab a story and run with it. They pick a side and report on that side.

[GreyGhost]

Less Dutch F-35s ?

>>> Article <<<

Gregg

Edited April 16, 2012 by GreyGhost

[MarkW]

The brits are going STOVL...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2130612/Cameron-makes-humiliating-u-turn-future-Britains-aircraft-carriers.html

[TaiidanTomcat]

The brits are going STOVL...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2130612/Cameron-makes-humiliating-u-turn-future-Britains-aircraft-carriers.html

I am shocked!! No wait I'm actually not surprised in the least. Have a lot of "I told you so's" to use now

The Empire Strikes backward -- The Return of the F-35B!!

Edited April 17, 2012 by TaiidanTomcat

[GreyGhost]

>>> Burger King #1 <<< ...Excuse me, BK-1 ...

Gregg

[GreyGhost]

>>> Hmmm <<< :unsure:

>>> Neato ! <<<

Gregg

[spejic]

>>> Burger King #1 <<< ...Excuse me, BK-1 ...

That British roundel is really interesting - it's just a light grey ring. How will that be differentiated from the other F-35 users with circular roundels?

[TaiidanTomcat]

>>> Hmmm <<< :unsure:

FTFA:

The MoD document, marked “Secret – UK eyes only”, makes clear that the jump jets are both more expensive and not as militarily effective as those originally ordered. “The conventional variant is more effective than the jump jet in almost all cases,” the paper states.

How does one measure "military effectiveness?" It has a range effect yes, the F-35C has the greatest range of all the variants. The B is faster though... where does that effect show up? much more versatile in the whole take off and landing part too. However... if they are using that to go from 97 aircraft to the new number of 136, then smart thinking UK! "it really sucks--so we need more!"

...a mission to retake the Falklands after a successful Argentine invasion, which states that “the conventional variant [fighter] provides a more robust capability”.

Could you imagine having to retake the falklands with a bunch of V/STOL aircraft!? How crazy would that be?

Of course having a Navy at all is a pretty robust capability. I think its funny that the UK ever thinks it will be back in the super carrier business as its navy shrinks and they essentially shelved their fleet air arm years ago. they are pretty much promoting a "robust capability" they havn't possessed in decades. in other words: You will get a conventional variant when you build a conventional carrier. Not one with a poorly planned and (surprise!) expensive retrofit.

As far as I can tell the UK MoD is in some kind of bizarre experiment where every year they get less and less money and they get to choose who gets eaten first, all while being expected to perform more. Be curious to see what gets devoured last.

Edited April 23, 2012 by TaiidanTomcat

[barkin mad]

That British roundel is really interesting - it's just a light grey ring. How will that be differentiated from the other F-35 users with circular roundels?

I thought it looked at lot like the Pakistan air force when I saw it, hope they use some colour in it eventually.

-----------------

[Dan 88]

Why are they afraid to use some color? The F-117 had color painted on it and was still stealthy......

Edited April 23, 2012 by Dan 88

[Tony Stark]

That British roundel is really interesting - it's just a light grey ring. How will that be differentiated from the other F-35 users with circular roundels?

It'll have a funny accent and a silly walk.

[GreyGhost]

>>> Uh Oh <<<

Gregg

[Kei Lau]

>>> Uh Oh <<<

Gregg

It is brilliant. The LM management and Union worked together to provide a political shield and cover for the delay and overrun of the F-35 program.

This does not work in the civilian aerospace sector where the plane builder funds all the developments and will not get paid until after the plane was delivered and accepted.

Edited April 24, 2012 by Kei Lau

[Skyraider Maniac]

Ah, the unions being jerks again... Nothing says "I'm a big boy" quite like throwing a tantrum because you might be a little inconvenienced...

I am quite pleased that I've never had anything to do with a union, and can confidently say I never will.

Don't like your job? Go elsewhere....

[Diamondback Six]

Food for thought... http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa460.pdf This is a discussion, granted it's from political CATO Institute, comparing and contrasting JSF with the last time a "joint" fighter was tried, TFX/F-111 (which was not so much "joint" as "MacNamara trying to ram the Air Force's bird up the Navy's arse")--some interesting postmortem on TFX, and "Lessons Learned" and how they've influenced this program.

[aerofan]

Totally silly politics. The media sure is running this show..... the end cost is pure speculation.

We were also going to get our money back on the purchase by producing parts for the aircraft.

When we switch to the Super Hornet we will be buying a product built 100% in the States. All those jobs and advances in the Canadian Aviation Industry will be lost.

Looks like we might not have learned anything from the February 20th, 1959 incident.

After spending a bunch of money, the F-35 will get chosen anyhow. Some will scream it was a rigged selection.

The majority of politicians and the public aren't knowledgable about the military aviation industry. They look at it purely as like buying a car. They don't understand that the F-35 or similar aircraft would have a very long service life which would save money since a fill the gap temporary fighter wouldn't be needed. The Super Hornet will merely be that stop gap very much like the F-101B/F Voodoos were for the RCAF; an unfortunately very long stop gap.

[Les / Creative Edge Photo]

Looks like we might not have learned anything from the February 20th, 1959 incident.

The majority of politicians and the public aren't knowledgable about the military aviation industry. They look at it purely as like buying a car. They don't understand that the F-35 or similar aircraft would have a very long service life which would save money since a fill the gap temporary fighter wouldn't be needed. The Super Hornet will merely be that stop gap very much like the F-101B/F Voodoos were for the RCAF; an unfortunately very long stop gap.

The CF-101 Voodoo was not a bad aircraft in fact it was a pretty good one. Canada got them as we needed true supersonic capable long range interceptors to help fulfill our role in NORAD as well to supplant the subsonic CF-100 Canuck. The CF-101 would easily have shot down many of those Soviet bombers had the war gone hot. The Voodoo was a pretty good aircraft likely the best of the Century Series planes in total capacity. Two man crew, capable radar, good infrared sensor (the second batch we got after we swapped the first batch for them). Good enough missile/rocket compliment for interception duties of most probably Soviet bombers in the Falcon missile and notably the nuclear tipped Genies. Very capable mid range acceleration said to even out pull a CF-104 from about 350-600 knots IAS. All in all for the era as good as any true interceptor available world wide. Having got them for a sweet deal, 66 Voodoos in exchange for Canada building Pine Tree Radar line. Soon after getting the first batch returning the remaining 56 birds for 66 more advanced versions was a pretty good deal for Canada.

The Voodoo soldiered on from 1959 to 1984ish because it did the one thing it was mostly tasked to do well, intercept Soviet bombers.

[jester292]

Ah, the unions being jerks again... Nothing says "I'm a big boy" quite like throwing a tantrum because you might be a little inconvenienced...

I am quite pleased that I've never had anything to do with a union, and can confidently say I never will.

Don't like your job? Go elsewhere....

Some jobs "require" union membership (at a past job I've been an "unprotected employee" by not paying union dues. Guess why I didn't want to pay?). As an "unprotected employee" I was involved an a "he said, she said" case. Can you guess what happened? Yup, I was shown the door becuase that particular company reserved the right to terminate any employee without notice or specific reasoning. There are politics at all levels of employment.

Aaron

Edited April 24, 2012 by jester292